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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

They aren't worth it...

180 replies

Tasmania · 17/02/2013 17:31

Why do some women end up in a relationship with guys - have kids with some even - who are not worth it?

I've met women who despite all the warning signals were completely blinded by... lust (can't be love, surely?). These were men who already showed signs of being abusive while dating.

Why don't people just turn their backs on them, and move away?

Not being controversial. Just wondering what goes on in people's head. My head is automatically guided by logic, and I don't know why, but I spot such guys from miles away, and just never tend to like them...

OP posts:
Original poster
Tasmania · 18/02/2013 14:04

I'm actually not trolling.

But after what plinkyplonks said - I am no longer going to apologize left, right and center. She has made me realize that I have nothing really to apologize for. I'm not the one who did you harm, though I admit I may have stirred up something that many may have wanted to keep hidden.

I know it's difficult to talk about this subject. And yes, you do make bad choices in life, and relationships do fall into that category, too. They are choices - some better than others. Making a bad choice doesn't necessarily mean you're being blamed. Or does "bad choices" not apply to relationships at all. I've made bad choices in the past, too!?

And as for Pray tell me, which is the culture that does not use "Thank you" and "Please". - I did say I say those words, but not in a bl**dy paragraph instead of a sentence (or really a maximum of two words). That seems to be unnecessary.

But oh well, why do I really bother. I'm off to my own cocooned world, where I shall never understand what anyone is going through.

And as plinkyplonks said: At the end of the day, there is little point in claiming your ex partner put you down, made you feel worthless etc when people are willing to do that to someone they haven't met for merely asking a question.

OP posts:
HandbagCrab · 18/02/2013 14:05

Perhaps one of the reasons then that women end up in abusive relationships is that there are structural inequalities in our society?

Your posts blame women for putting up with men's poor behaviour (see your own comment about the hr woman). Women wouldn't have to explain, minimise, ignore, put up with etc. men's poor behaviour if men were better behaved in the first place and if society generally did not expect women to take responsibility for or police men's behaviour for them.

You're getting angry with the wrong people at the wrong level op. And, no I don't expect you to deal with men's poor behaviour at work singlehandedly. But yet, you expect women in abusive relationships to anticipate and know how to deal with their men's poor behaviour single handedly.

ScentedNappyHag · 18/02/2013 14:13

This thread would be quite handy to an abuser really; speculations on the type of woman to go for, guessing how much she'll put up with, the tricks for making sure they don't realise what you are before it's too late.
Strange, that.

scarredbutalive · 18/02/2013 14:14

Hahaha, this is just too funny! Tasmania has just singelhandedly performed that vicious circle that EAers do. Now she´s angry, threatens to leave and expects others to apologize! I really don´t believe this.

Oh, and by the way, a question to all you Brits: is it really customary to use paragrahphs full of "Please"s and "Thank you"s in your wotkplace- emails? Can´t see any such paragraphs here!

Original poster
Tasmania · 18/02/2013 14:15

HandbagCrab

I don't expect women to deal with men's poor behavior singlehandedly. That's impossible, and anyone who tells me they can "tame" their men... well, let's not talk about that. But I do think that if you know there are problems, you can walk away (assuming you have the support structure in place).

And yes, I have a big gripe against those women in HR, because in a way, they were abusing their positions, too. As said previously, abuse is not just between men and women. Sometimes, it's actually by a woman against a man. So, in that case I would wonder why the man does not just walk away? Or would that be wrong for me to ask?

OP posts:
scarredbutalive · 18/02/2013 14:24

And you know what´s also suspicious: OP, you seem to be the only person who joins this site not because of a problem you have, but with the (rhetoric, I must assume) question: Why do so many women have a problem?!
Grin

plinkyplonks · 18/02/2013 14:30

Guys, this really has to stop? Isn't this thread just getting derailed through some really aggressive comments. I really don't understand why you are all so angry. The OP has a different life perspective than you, hasn't had a hard enough life, gone through a bad relationship.... etc? That's not his/her fault. Trying to play the blame game - the OP hasn't tried to, so why are you? More to point - it's completely off topic.

Original poster
Tasmania · 18/02/2013 14:31

What do you mean? I didn't just join the site. Yes, it's the first time I posted in the "Relationships" part of the forum. But that is just another part of the bigger Mumsnet forum?

OP posts:
ArtVandelay · 18/02/2013 14:49

For what its worth, I reported this thread last night and MNHQ seem satisfied its a 'real' poster.

I don't think I got aggressive, just took the pee a bit. The whole thing just seems really off to me... I mean if I went on the Weightloss area and asked 'why do you lot get so massive? Can't you see where its heading by the time you hit x stone? I don't get it - I don't eat much, why don't you stop eating so much?' Then I would expect to be torn to bits and I'd deserve it. It would be rude, superior and unnecessary. I just feel that this OP is driven by bad motives. Sorry for people that have got upset - please take no notice.

HandbagCrab · 18/02/2013 14:57

Perhaps the women in hr were being led by example? It is hard to go against the status quo after all, particularly if you are not in a position of power. You have experienced this yourself, so you perhaps have some empathy for this felt and how others might find it more difficult than you did?

plinkyplonks · 18/02/2013 14:58

ArtVandelay I could understand this sentiment if the poster asked.. why are you all so stupid?! But they didn't - and I'm a little confused why people are inferring this from the OP's original post. I just don't see it :/ I think the equivalent on a weight loss forum of asking what has triggered your weight gain. It's a neutral question, obviously on an emotive subject, but that doesn't give us the right to attack the OP proactively seeking a different view on life. Even if you place the OP's own motives for posting aside, this forum helps many hundreds if not thousands of people (who may not post a reply but simply digest the experiences we have here) so there is hardly ever a 'useless' question asked on this forum.

Original poster
Tasmania · 18/02/2013 15:05

HandbagCrab - one of the HR women was actually in a significant position of power, because she wasn't just covering HR - she was higher up than the man in question. Though I can't expose anything more than that.

OP posts:
Original poster
Tasmania · 18/02/2013 15:07

^^P.S.: People referred to her as Cruella de Vil impersonated... if that helps.

OP posts:
ArtVandelay · 18/02/2013 15:13

Plinky your last statement is very true. I agree.

I still think that 'what has triggered your weight gain? I am thin and know when to stop eating, why don't other people?' is wierd if not downright nasty.

Stupid was implied quite strongly by the fact that the OP states her head is so packed with logic that she can see what non-logical women cannot. Abuse is the result of not being logical. I have a problem with that notion, I see other people did too. Fair enough.

I'm happy to agree to disagree on this one.

HandbagCrab · 18/02/2013 15:17

Ah well, least this woman was high up and forthright op! I bet she didn't get abused...

Original poster
Tasmania · 18/02/2013 15:29

ArtVandelay - As said previously, I do think that "logic" is relative. It's based on experience. For others, something may seem logical, when for me, it simply isn't. Most of the time, I know very well that it's not because of stupidity, but because I know that that person figured out something I didn't. That's why, as past posts have said (not mine, and as we know it does not apply to all and sundry), if you do come from an abusive environment, you may be more likely to accept it in future because you don't know it anyway else. So while for me, it would be logical to "move away" from such a relationship, for that person, it isn't because they view it as the norm.

As a matter of fact, as we are using the analogy of dieting - I do know what you mean with it being annoying when people just say what you say above on dieting forums - but from experience (because I find it hard to lose weight), I know that some people who have zero problems with fat have naturally fast metabolisms, and burn fat quicker... or actually, most just live a much more active lifestyle than me.

BUT I do not blame them for having a fast metabolism or being more active, or even wondering why I do not do more sport (I'm wondering as I type why, actually!)> And I don't think by saying that, they mean to offend. Sometimes, just a little bit of showing how it is from your side goes a pretty long way.

OP posts:
scarredbutalive · 18/02/2013 16:11

"Logic" goes back to the greek word "logos" which means "word" but also "reasoning". It has only partly to do with experience, it has also got to to with the ability to articulate oneself coherently. If you say you are able to use logic to differentiate right from wrong people while others can´t, that implies these others lack the ability of coherent thinking. This is not a neutral statement.

Anyway, I´m sorry plinky, I´m far from wanting to stir something up here and I´m willing to apologize for some of the outlandish insinuations I have made. But I still think it´s a weird way to open up a conversation. Artvandelay has given a great analogy, I give another one. What if you start a conversation at a party with the sentence "I have always been good at gymnastics, I can´t wrap my head around why some people aren´t athletic enough to do the splits." ... It´s a weird opening, it´s not neutral, it divides people into those who can and those who can´t. It may not be offensive, but it´s just ... weird.

Original poster
Tasmania · 18/02/2013 16:16

scarredbutalive I'm sorry, but just as with the diet analogy, I would not mind the gymnastics one either? Says she who couldn't do the split when her cousins all could...

OP posts:
HandbagCrab · 18/02/2013 16:21

I've met women who despite all the warning signals were blinded by greed (can't be just love of food). These were women who had already shown signs of being obese.

Why don't people just stop buying unhealthy food and stop eating so much?

It's hardly a neutral proposition if you were to write that on a weightloss forum is it?

Original poster
Tasmania · 18/02/2013 16:34

I am a member of weightloss forums - and this would have been my reply:

In my case, it started with an accident that made it difficult for me to do sport. So I put on weight, and granted, I thought I could continue eating what I've eaten before. Lightbulb moment after several months. I couldn't. Losing weight without doing sport is difficult when you've been used to a certain amount of food. Dieting is not as easy then. I am trying to buy more healthy food (although, admittedly, I just ate some fattening vanilla ice cream!!), and restrict my intake. I hope this will help me to lose weight - and I'm looking forward for that day in my life, when I can look into the mirror, and see not the person I am now, but the one I want to be.

OP posts:
foolonthehill · 18/02/2013 16:38

since Tas is obviously unoffendable, s/he won't get that her posts are offensive to some...clearly gymnastics, diets, etc. don't ruffle the feathers at all!

scarredbutalive · 18/02/2013 16:40

tasmania
I repeat: it´s not offensive, it´s just weird. It´s not necessarily something you "mind", it´s something you react to with "Huh, what could that possibly be about?!"

Why are you picking just some things you answer and leave the rest uncommented? And: what enlightenment did you expect out of this thread? Did you want an honest question answered? Did you want to get/ give information? Did you want to bond with people? Did you want to gain real insight? Did you get what you want?

handbag No, you´re right. It´s not neutral. It ´s like to start a converation with a bad bait.

Original poster
Tasmania · 18/02/2013 16:53

scarredbutalive

Actually, I chose to answer quite a few things, despite the rather abusive comments that were thrown at me. People can't expect others to read their minds, and know that from your side of the world something might seem offensive that from my side of the world no one would think it is. The questions I asked get asked quite frequently by fairly innocent women in RL who never had the trouble of having to see things from your side.

I just wanted to know why people stay in abusive relationships or why some (not all) continued dating certain men, despite the early warning signals, or even comments by friends.

This is probably one of those sensitive cases (like the subject of ethnicity) where people get offended by things that those not affected don't seem to get offended by.

OP posts:
YNK · 18/02/2013 18:46

People have tried to open your eyes op, and you just keep saying you can see perfectly well with them closed

scarredbutalive · 18/02/2013 18:51

Yeah, well, your last post did not make any sense at all. Have you switched personalities?

Whatever, I, me, personally have learned a lot here. Trust your instincts, trust yourself. There are a lot of people here I would like to meet and to talk to. There are a lot of people with genuine problems. I´ll never meet them. It´s okay. It was helpful to know they are out there. I would like to help them, too. "If I could, I would, ...