They aren't worth it...

[Tasmania]

Why do some women end up in a relationship with guys - have kids with some even - who are not worth it?

I've met women who despite all the warning signals were completely blinded by... lust (can't be love, surely?). These were men who already showed signs of being abusive while dating.

Why don't people just turn their backs on them, and move away?

Not being controversial. Just wondering what goes on in people's head. My head is automatically guided by logic, and I don't know why, but I spot such guys from miles away, and just never tend to like them...

So, really, round about 9 p.m. this turned into an angst about your cowboy builders? With NO NOTICE?

Wouldn't starting another thread have been clearer, rather than tacking it onto a thread about successful tactics of abusive partners?

Leucan - it's because people started to press on with the "being polite" issue.

I would say your epic foresight somehow did not prevent you from posting this ill judged thread.

Why ask a question when you already know the answer.

But i suspect there is nothing wrong with your foresight and you just get a kick out of stirring it in which case you probably already have a pretty good insight into what goes on in at least and half of an abusive relationship.

Either you are not as wise before the event as you think you are and ,as your post implies, you have very little insight into other people in which case i suspect you would do no better at spotting an abuser than the average or you know exactly what you are doing and what you are doing is pretty unpleasant.

Sometimes i like to be direct too.

I guess I am the sort of person Tasmania is talking about. In RL I am well educated, have a good job, nice house, not bad looking (trumpet blows!). But my husband was a prize asshole.

And yes, right from the start red flags were there. Initially when I meet him I put his occasional assholeishness down to too much to drink, or tiredness or something. Yes you would think I'd learn but no I went to buy a house, get pregnant, buy another house, get pregnant again, and by this time I felt I had to pretend to my family that he was this nice guy. I guess I kinda felt I had made my choices and should get on with it.

In hindsight I should have shown him the door 15 years ago, but I can't wish I did, as that would be wishing away my children.

Tell you what though, lesson learned, no man will ever treat meet like shit again.

Tasmania, what have you learned from this thread?

Minkembra Readthis comment posted above by SolidGoldBrass who seems to be the only one who got me. It's not the foresight that's missing - more that I was too cocooned from all the problems.

Here's SolidGrossBrass' post:

I don't think the OP merits quite the kicking she's started to get. If you have always been surrounded by generally reasonable people and were brought up by parents who loved you properly and taught you that you were valuable and worthwhile and deserved good treatment, you might find it bewildering that so many other people seem so willing to accept shitty treatment in personal relationships. Because another major factor for women who stay a long time with abusive men is that at some point in their lives someone convinced them of one or more of the following: that they themselves weren't 'good enough' and must always try harder, that they were bad and needed to be punished or controlled, or that men are more important than women and must be placated and obeyed.

Alright, then. To be blindingly simple:

"Why do some women end up in a relationship with guys - have kids with some even - who are not worth it? I've met women who despite all the warning signals were completely blinded by... lust (can't be love, surely?). These were men who already showed signs of being abusive while dating. Why don't people just turn their backs on them, and move away?"

• because people looking for a partner tend to avoid the obvious negatives they've had before. Someone who says; I've never hit you / I'd never shout at you / I'd never swear at you / I'll look after you - sounds wonderful if you've not had it. And then it turns out it's just words. But you don't know that until it's happened. Point out the 'stupid' in wishing to trust someone?

"Not being controversial. Just wondering what goes on in people's head. My head is automatically guided by logic, and I don't know why, but I spot such guys from miles away, and just never tend to like them..."

I'm logical. I'm just not used to people lying to me. It's taken a long time (tanker turning around at sea) to adjust my ideas of 'trust', but I'm not stupid.

Hope That Helps.

DioneTheDiabolist

SGB's posts were really insightful. And so was Teeb's ticking clock comment.

I have learned that I will tell my DC that she's loved, that she can achieve everything she can and that nobody should ever treat her badly. If I ever catch anyone making her feel otherwise, they better watch out.

Because I thought it was my fault. I had been told throughout my childhood that it was my fault my dad lost his temper and hit me, therefore it was probably my fault that my ex did the same. It took me until I was twenty fucking nine to realise that I do not deserve to be hit, not then, not now, not ever.

I booted the ex because he hit me in front of the kids. Not because he hit me.

If you think logic should trump upbringing, why don't people eat all the stray dogs in pounds instead of weeping abut them? Perfectly viable protein, what goes through some people's heads?

Tasmania, they were great posts. Insightful provision of not just answers, but food for thought.

You have been given the answers you requested, so why do you keep coming back to this thread?

colditz - what you just mentioned is one of the things SGB mentioned. Thanks for sharing.

It has become clear to me that "logic" is relative, and formed by experience. If you've always been treated badly from a very young age, then you don't question it, if someone else does the same when you're an adult because that's the norm for you.

You can have the other extreme, and have mum & dad's little princess who expects every single guy to treat her similarly later on in life. Not many guys will be able to live up to that.

DioneTheDiabolit - I am going off it now - as I planned to several posts above. I was just trying to be polite, and reply to people, including you.

tasmania it seems you think victims of abuse don't share your intellectual skills but believe it or not i can read. So don't need you to repost SGB for me. thanks.

Don't know where SGB got so willing to accept shitty treatment from though. very insightful.

add patronising to smug.

So SGB agrees with you. oh well, you must be right. Between the two of you you have it all worked out well done. Have a bouquet

What next? perhaps you could ask rape victims why they were so careless. of course not because that would be ooutrageous.

And for the record there was nothing wrong with my parents or my childhood. go figure.

I must just be stupid.

Because the abuse is turned on slowly slowly over a period of many years.

There aren't any warning signs to begin with. You think you've found the man of your dreams.

But gradually so as you'd hardly notice it just starts. It happens so slowly you don't notice. Very slowly the changes become normal.

You go onto have children. After being together for 7 years in my case. Things gradually get worse. But the comments are only 'helpful' and 'because he loves you'.

Then you find MN for breastfeeding advice. You start to read active conversations. You stumble across the relationships page. You read about EA. Your blood runs cold. It is you on there. You refuse to believe it but now the scales are off your eyes you can see everything.

But by now you are in too deep and you are scared of losing your child to your H. Your head tells you to go but your heart says stay. Plus your abuser is not stupid. He senses when you start to detach and becomes charming and lovely and you think that maybe it will be ok this time.

You will never understand Tasmania if you've never been there. I see this as a highly educated woman with a well respected job who is highly regarded at work. The people I work with would never imagine what goes on behind my closed doors.

And I was brought up in a loving family with loving respectful parents.

noonelistens I believe you

Thanks AF So do all the lovely ladies on the EA support thread. And one day hopefully soon I will leave. I know I don't need to explain or justify myself to anyone, but Tasmania's black-and-white and almost flippant attitude has made me so angry.

The line 'Why don't people just turn their backs on them, and move away?' sums up her startling lack of understanding completely.

Indeed, NL

I am glad you have the EA support thread...fantastic bunch of gals over there

I think the question you are asking is configured wrong. The question should be why do men abuse women. SGB went some way to answering that when she talked about social expectations. Midwife also mentioned Lundy Bancroft 'why does he do that?

The fascinating thing about Bancroft is he talks about inequality between the sexes, hell, I think he maybe even mentions the word patriarchy. Men abuse women because society abuses women. Reading Bancroft's warning signs, a lot of these would have been normal expectations of marriage a century ago.

Women do not experience things in a vacuum. Men do not act in a vacuum. If there was genuine equality between the sexes, there would be less abuse. I think so at least.

That apart, I stand by my view it is a ill-judged question on this forum, given the number of women who have felt compelled to defend their position and experience.

Noonelistens

Thanks for your input. That is very, very scary. I know I'll never understand without having been there, and hopefully never will.

Did you ever confess to anyone in RL - and if, how long did it take you?

I can see now that if you're in that situation, you must have the feeling of being lost, and not knowing what to do. One of those deer-in-the-headlights moments of life. It can be embarrassing to go to people you actually know, who may also be friends with DH (as it tends to happen once you're in a relationship). You may not want to lose face in front of colleagues either. I think the only people I could turn to would possibly be my family - which in my case would be crap since they are in a completely different country.

And now that you mention it, I did (and do) know men who are very charming indeed, and who girls run after - and I know that while they are OK as friends... they can be emotionally abusive as partners (not sure about this, but that's what I gathered, from all their ex-girlfriends). Often, it's because they know that their charm (and oftentimes, their looks) attracts so many girls. Male friends often used to tell me, "He's a good mate, but not one you should date." Asking for clarification was often met with silence or raised eyebrows. Gosh - you often turn a blind eye to these things when you're not the one affected!!

Sorry my post was to the OP, not you NL. Took me too long to tap out on phone. I hope you do get out. It is not your fault.

Tasmania, so far your attempts at social niceties have brought you back to a thread you wished to quit, not once but twice.

Now, you are a logical person. Why would you make a decision and go back on it, not once, but twice?

I'm with noone. Lovely parents, brought me up to cope with every intellectual challenge going, but no experience of emotional inadequacy. I didn't know what I was dealing with. I didn't know how to challenge. You don't abandon a whole history because of one off comment. Or two. Or three.

Low grade, persistent, endless comments that have you on the back foot almost permanently. Until it turns physical and then it's almost a relief that you have something tangible to point at. Except it was only the once. And in exceptional circumstances. By which point you're so far away from being able to protest about generic 'respect' you're buggered, frankly.

DioneTheDiabolist Can you just stop with that? I do like reading about what others have to say. If you don't want me to return, then maybe you should stop asking questions directed at me???

tas, have a look here

the boiling frog analogy will explain some very simple things to you

any time you want to make a proper apology...do feel free