Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships: 17

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

mink - that's interesting. My stepdaughters are absolutely lovely and very polite and well-behaved. Now I know why - they are terrified of putting a foot wrong with FW because they know what the fall-out will be.

Oh Leclerc, I feel so on your behalf. That's a rubbish thing to send to someone who is already going through so much. Could you email them back with a version of what you wrote on here? TBH, you don't owe them anything, if this is how they are treating you then you don't need them in your life, but it might help you feel like you've responded in some way. And then find a church that suits you.

Charlotte - yy, he's putting all the work onto you. He needs to be responsible for policing his own behaviour. He needs to find a way to make counselling work despite his situation (or else he's basically saying he'll never do it) - email/telephone counselling is available, he's just not willing to do it (because he ultimately doesn't want to). And i don't believe for a second he doesn't remember - gaslighting, trying to insinuate you are mistaken. arth is right, he's just using different tactics because you are fighting the ones he was using before.

MrsM - I think you could use Relate on your own, but they wont counsel you together if there's been abuse (with good reason - it'll not help and could make things worse). Why not see what they say, if they're the only ones to reply so far?

charlotte think you are bang on about being put in the role of teacher. he will possibly turn around and accuse you of being controlling and overly critical.

I can see why if you really don't know that what you say/do is offensive (i.e. you are a FW) you might need someone to point it out to you but it does put that person in the position of being your keeper.

It is his problem not yours. if he wants to fix it, top on his list should be what do you want and he should be prepared to fix himself away from you and then come back if and only when he deserves you.

ex used to do the 'ok I see your point' game i won't e.g. come in late when you are supposed to be going out any more. would last a few months at most and then the time would start slipping again and then it would be - god I am only x minutes late and why are you so nippy to me when I am doing you a favour? then we were back to the looking after your own kids is not a favour row and round we went again. but I get to look like the controlling ungrateful nut case (in his head).

or I put up with it and get let out later and later, arrangements get messed up and I don't enjoy my night out cos I am pissed off. (and it wasn't like I was out clubbing just a swim or a fitness class).

I am waiting for the lateness to creep into his 'access' visits too. he used to turn up to pick the older kids up whenever, leave all arrangements 'til the last minute and basically leave everyone dangling on his whims. I used to just think it was a bit slack and try to chivvy him along but now see it as a bit more sinister.

no show without punch so everyone has to wait until he is ready. control. control.

(but god forbid anyone should keep him waiting! and he is never late for work never)

mink, I've been keeping a note, and FW is late for the weekend pick-up every single week - he's meant to pick him up at 9.30am, but it's never before 9.45am, and one time was 10am. No apology or mention of the lateness, ever. I know it's not a huge amount of time, but still i am petty. And probably every other week he asks me to pick him up early, whether it's just half an hour (ie 6pm instead of 6.30pm), or sometimes as early as 4pm, if DS2 has been unsettled or if FW has better things to do. But i say nothing, and write it all down. And god forbid I should change anything myself - cue instant accusations of 'keeping his son from him'.

pony weirdly, so far he has mostly been on time and once even texted me to apologise for being late. the novelty will soon wear off no doubt.

what will you do with your notes though?

Notes are mainly for my own reference, mink, so that I know for definite that there's been a pattern and even if he denies it, I have proof. The notes may be useful if there's a contact issue, probably not but never know.

So. Opinions please. FW has cancelled his time with DS2 tonight (at just a couple of hours' notice) and asked to rearrange for tomorrow night. Reasonable, people-pleasing me says I have no real reason to say no. Spiteful me says no way, why should I put myself out. Somewhere in the middle me says it looks good to be flexible if I'm able, but he's still being an arse over the divorce finances and insisting I pay half of the mortgage payments for the year I wasn't living there.

I know there's probably no-one around at the moment (that dark pre-teatime chaos that I'd usually have, but DS1 is at his gran's), but wondered if anyone had any thoughts on which 'me' to go with. I have to say, I'm leaning towards the 'think of the mortgage payments, he's an arse' me...

Why should DS2 be messed about unless FW has a very good excuse.
if you say no it can't be tomorrow- does that mean it will be tonight?
or not at all?

It'll be not at all (he cant make tonight now), and he'll see DS2 as normal on Saturday. TBH DS2 is only 15 months, wont know either way. It's a me issue, not a DS2 issue.

ponygirl what would reasonable, NON-people-pleasing you do? What could you do for you tomorrow evening that you couldn't otherwise do?

mink bingo on the God forbid that FW is kept waiting. He will not start putting on shoes and coat until DD and I are stood in the hall waiting to go. And 9 times out of 10 we're stood there getting hot when he decides that he needs a toilet trip. But then the second that he's ready we're supposed to jump to it.

charlotte my H is not as nasty as some on here but he is still abusive. He never shouts and never hits me or threatents me. I do not feel scared of him. I used to be scared of upsetting him and that used to make me feel sick in the stomach. However now I've started detaching then even that doesn't worry me so it almost feels like he has no control (until I find myself changing my top when he says he doesn't like it )

I'm worrying that I'm turning into a nasty person. Now if H says something rude/unpleasant to me I almost feel pleased as it is another bit of evidence for my diary. That can't be right can it?

He has also been a bit nicer recently. Although really I mean a bit less unpleasant. ie no actual niceness just less name calling and rudeness.

I don't have young children, Pony, so disregard this if it does not fit.
I would say no.
I would say no because, unless there is an excellent relationship between the parents, stability and clarity for children are more important than flexibility.
This, of course, is the only way to go with FWs, who take everything and give nothing.
But, as I said, it is a very long time since my children were so young.

leclerc I'm so sorry your church have been so unhelpful. Don't answer this if you don't want to, but is it a big church or a tight-knit small one. Are you/FW 'high up' in it? I really think the church should be there to support you . This is the time you need help more than any other. The church is not just there for people where their lives are going well and when everything is easy. This is the times when it really counts. I've drifted a bit but I like to think that the church I used to go to and will start again once H is no longer in control would help me much more. They need to ask themselves 'What would Jesus do in this situation?' He wasn't scared of addressing awkward or unpleasant issues and certainly would not have been telling you to suck it up. Yes he would want to care and support your FW too (and point him in the right direction regarding how to deal with his issues of control) but he would definitely be concerned about you and your feelings too.

• when their lives are going well

Having read what arth posted, I'm persuaded by her argument...

H is poorly on the sofa. I'm half tempted to pester him for sex like he did me.
Lovely emails off my mum to keep me going though.

FWIW Pony I was the totally flexible one always, even changing plans to accommodate FW FFS what was I thinking! but now no, and as my WA lady would say, if it suits you to do so then yeah, but if its part of a pattern of messing around (as mine was) the contact has been substantially reduced as a result, and I concur with the view of keeping contact to a routine schedule, as otherwise there is far too much room for FWittery, and I ran out of energy to accommodate that as well as everythin else alone.

and the routine better for baby/child too xx

So it was not only my FW screaming at the children to get their coats on and not thinking there was anything incongruous about doing so in his underpants!
Woe betide any one of us who pointed out the incongruity, though

tis it may be that the church feels its duty is to leave no stone unturned in trying to save your marriage - somewhat like those of us who keep/kept trying different things to save ours. This despite the fact that you are already surrounded by upturned stones - as you have already done all you could.

Of course this could be being tainted by not wanting to rock the heirarchy they have already got...

not heirarchy then, but system. Allthough having elders is a two-tier heirarchy? Can women be elders? if not, then a 3 tiered one perhaps.

Questions (those with no faith/no interest please forgive....)

Does God want all marriages everywhere to reflect the relationship between Christ and the church? yes

Do all marriages everywhere reflect this ? no

Is it possible for a marriage to be so broken that to continue in it causes a problem for one or both of the parties in reflecting Godliness and to for it become impossible to "live at peace with all men"? yes

Is it wrong to consider returning to a situation/marriage where the very nature of the situation encourages a person to act sinfully?.....

Two things that people both inside and outside the church have to admit before our situations make any sense

1. It is possible for a relationship to be broken by only one person within it and not just by adultery/physical abuse, even though neither person could be perfect
2. It is possible for a person to appear to be completely different outside the marriage/relationship to the person he/she is within it.

these 2 things cause problems for everyone because we receive as total truth that both people in a relationship have responsibility for making it work and no one person is entirely responsible for it (which is true if we are talking about normal people). But even harder is that we all believe that we are good judges of character...if what we say is true then people have to admit they were/are wrong (but only as wrong as us, after all we married the FWs!). Humble pie is a hard dish to swallow.

Looks like a few of us could do with a bit of a laugh.

Spoke to ExFW last night, trying to knock some sense into him appeal to his better nature as a DF to DS.

He asked me if I would ever consider giving it another go.

I confess I actually had to ask Give what another go?.

He said 'Us'

That said he did actually have the brass neck to say that he wouldn't be happy if I had someone else...

Well horse bolted, gate fastened on that one... coming up for a year now

I told him that he really has no business knowing about my day to day and that just as I am not at all interested in him and his life, neither need he be in mine. I said that I wouldn't tell him one way or another, and certainly would never ever make a single comment about his personal life, as it is no longer any concern of mine. His only responsibility as regards to a 'relationship' is that of the one with his son.

Which bearing in mind the last time he spoke to DS was mid Dec, is in a WOEFUL state of affairs.

He IS trying to be nice, but I told him for the love of GOD not to try and have a relationship with me, cos that is never ever in a million years, over my cold dead body, the day AFTER hell freezes over going to happen.

I have a lot of money that he owes me and will possibly have repaid this summer. I have to be fairly careful about the info he has on me, and therefore will not be making any 'announcements' wrt my private life any time soon.

It isn't his business, he is thousands of miles away, no-one he knows, knows me, and no-one that knows me, and him, would ever tell him, or be able to.

I kind of need to speak to boyf about this though, don't i?