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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships: 17

999 replies

foolonthehill · 17/02/2013 13:51

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

OP posts:
Bountyicecream · 25/02/2013 23:34

Hi all. I've had to nc cos I think h might have found me on here. He's certainly done something that I talked about although that might be coincidence. Anyway I'm going to lie low for a bit but I'll be lurking for courage. He's also been quite pleasant... poss from reading on here too. But I'm not falling for it again.

TisILeclerc · 26/02/2013 06:24

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MrsMorton · 26/02/2013 09:18

Silvery you escaped 2 years ago IIRC How did you get out and what was the final straw?

FairyFi · 26/02/2013 09:40

hi bounty, same here, I could do with a connection to help me join up the dots! can you pm me your old name?

snowshapes · 26/02/2013 10:08

Sorry I am gate-crashing a little here, but I just want to say thank you to every single one of you for sharing your thoughts and experiences on here. I have been reading for a while and it is the little things you mention which help me know I am not losing my mind.

But I also wanted to say, Eternal Rose, you are not unwell or crazy or any of those things. When I read your first posts about ending up a hysterical mess, I so totally nodded along in agreement. I thought it was me too. My STBXH would start to discuss things at 10 or 11pm, for example, when I was breastfeeding a baby and surviving on little sleep, and it would end up in an argument and I would end up getting wound up, and he would start with the just calm down, you are being aggressive, and I would end up in tears of frustration (and tiredness) and he would go off to bed and sleep, whilst I was so wound up, I could not. Even when I said, no, I am tired, can we discuss this tomorrow, this was not an option. I was always the one who ended up distressed (let?s not say hysterical, it is distress and frustration) and he remained oh, so calm.

How did I see it was him and not me? Because I saw him do it to my DD, who is not his. I?m not giving her age, but she is not into double figures. He would wind her up. Even when I said, stop. She would react. Then it would be her fault for flying off the handle. Sometimes, he dressed it up as a joke, but it was still messing her around. The tipping point was that he was needling her about something, and she lashed out at him to leave her alone, and he responded by physically pushing her. She has never in all her small years lashed out, and she is not capable of lashing out hard. But he said he pushed her over because she hit him. She?s a child.

Hopefully, the point of that story is that it was not her, she did not abuse him. Even if you are not reacting properly and calmly and reasonably, that is because you are not in an atmosphere where you feel safe and it is a fight or flight response. I wish you every strength to find a way out and find peace. In the meantime, I guess it is a case of trying to detach (easier said than done), so that you have a different response - I started replying with just yes or no, and not getting drawn in. I could feel the provocation inside me, though, so I recognised it was happening. It is really hard, he still can draw me in (we separated a month ago).

Another thing I remembered on reading this thread (there are so many things, but this relates to thinking you are crazy) was that when he picked me and baby up from the doctors once, there was a poster on the wall with signs of stress on it. He said that I should consider stress counselling because lots of the boxes were ticked for me. I read it, and thought, really? I wouldn?t have ticked them, but he diagnosed me that way. He?d also complain about some apparent behaviour of mine, followed by, you don?t even realise you are doing it, do you? My sense of self was eroded, little by little.

Anyway, just to say again, I think you are an amazing bunch of ladies, and I am so very grateful that you have posted here, even though I wish none of you were in the position that you had to, iyswim. I wish you all strength.

MrsMorton · 26/02/2013 10:49

I'm looking into getting some counselling but H wouldn't be supportive, has anyone had "email" counselling? It would be easier to do it secretly...

foolonthehill · 26/02/2013 10:52

last night I (foolishly Wink ) tried to explain why our situation is not like a normal relationship breakdown and can't be sorted out in the same way: this is what I wrote..it's laughable really...death by 1000 cuts of nothing! thought it might make some of you smile in recognition and others realise It's not you it's him!

The person I was writing too asked me what I did that triggered the bad behavioural response from FW (and whether i acknowledged my part in the problem Angry:
"Any and every action, inaction, word or silence "triggered" FW's response: from asking him to put his plate in the dishwasher please, to moving a lamp from one occasional table to another, to asking him if her were able pick up a child from school to potty training and the child being held, shaken and shouted at. From bringing him an unasked for cup of tea, to which side of the bed he decided to sleep on. From who called me on the telephone in the evening and how long i spoke to them, to what I cooked. I was either unhelpful when leaving him to it or controlling/interfering if I helped. I was over pious and a "holy jo" if i wanted to pray together or read the bible. I was disturbing him if I cleared up before going to bed but unhelpful/disturbing if I got up early to do it before breakfast."

"We are not talking about angry outbursts in the run of provocation or arguments or differences of opinion. We are talking about walking on eggshells in every situation, unsure of what normal daily currency would result in the explosion. The children saying something out of turn, me giving them attention instead of him, asking him to do something, not to do something."

"Of course I did lots of things that were unhelpful. I am not perfect., But I can honestly tell you that it did not matter whether I was calm and collected, informed, forgiving , loving and helpful or angry, concerned, ill-informed, unkind, bearing grudges (and believe me i had both some of my finest and least fine hours with FW) NOTHING WORKED. Absolutely nothing. there was no way to behave, no cure for how he treated us, no amount of good behaviour brought me any degree of love care and concern."

"I don't blame you for not being able to comprehend this. I struggle myself that someone who "loved" us could put us through all that."

with love from "fool"

OP posts:
TheSilveryPussycat · 26/02/2013 11:02

Brilliant, fool, you have captured the double-bind, heads-I-win tails-you-lose, total headfuckery of it Grin

minkembra · 26/02/2013 11:14

fool I suppose it must be hard for other people not to think that there must be a reason, a button that gets pressed or some magic formula where it all works because I know I spent long enough looking for reasons and formulae.

before finally realising, it is not me, and is mostly because he feels like it and because he can. with ex there was always some excuse, stress, stopping smoking, starting smoking, hunger, work, the kids, his family, but as soon as that excuse was resolved another would appear in its place. real reason in his eyes i am not equal.

so what did i do to provoke him- being of inferior gender and not accepting it. expecting too much of him.

another bingo possibly- ex could start a blazing row and then sleep like a baby while i lay there all night trying to figure it out.

FairyFi · 26/02/2013 11:16

fool for clarifying the unclear so eloquently!! ... I was thinking recently myself of the many and varied ways in which I tried to be flexible, and the energy thinking about it and the new strategies developed, int he face of it - guess what... no change!

you are describing baiting snowshapes a term I only just heard of but been all too familiar with.

TisILeclerc · 26/02/2013 11:29

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

EternalRose · 26/02/2013 11:54

Why is there nobody to talk to in real life? am literally dying here today. I get nowhere with WA to be honest. I just cant muster the energy to ring them again and get given links to websites where I can buy second hand self help books, or yet another number that I have to call.

The last time I spoke to them she couldn't even tell me if what what I am dealing with is abuse. I find WA very unhelpful. It's the same old rubbish, I am very lucid and seemingly sound 'intelligent' so people instantly think I am fine and dont need help. I called the nurse today that is meant to be referring me for CBT and I said I need to speak to someone urgently as my relationship is abusive (I have never told her before). She asked me if he has hit me, I said not recently but I have lashed out at him yesterday. So she replied 'Oh so you are the abusive one'. Sigh. She said if I am not at risk to myself then there is nothing they can do really. There is no emergency counselling here and she did a lot of huffing and puffing. Marvellous. I realise if I want to speak to someone I am going to have to cough up £30 an hour for a private therapist, it is clear that money is the key issue here. If I had money, I would be out of this place like a shot. Now I can see why so many women decide to kill themselves, today that is as clear as day.

Fed up. Just dont want to wake up.

EternalRose · 26/02/2013 12:00

And thank you snowshapes and Thesilivery for replying to me. I will reply properly later, as I am going to bed now and dont feel in the right frame of mind to write any sort of coherent reply. Feel sick to my stomach, and I have an upset stomach too.

foolonthehill · 26/02/2013 12:03

rose you are not alone. but it does feel unfair that we (the "victim") have to sort out help for ourselves and get through to other people. Whilst they (the "perp") have the world at their feet...

It is possible that we can give off quite the wrong signals...we can be so used to being attacked that we are "defensive" in advance and come across as angry and difficult instead of needy and on the edge of breaking down which is the reality.

in fact when you eventually stumble across someone who does understand it can feel overwhelming.

rose if you could write yourself a prescription what 3 things do you need to keep your head above water and get through the day

OP posts:
snowshapes · 26/02/2013 12:12

Now I can see why so many women decide to kill themselves, today that is as clear as day.

FairyFi · 26/02/2013 12:28

ER I've had similar off-hand, flippant, and various far from helpful responses, from WA etc... but I cannot knock them because they have also been my lifeline and supported me through one of the worst times recently. If you can contact a local outreach worker to speak to either by phone/email, or face to face, you will feel very understood and supported.

I am really glad that you saw the nurses [oh so you're the abuser] comment for what it was, and that would be enough to completely knock me off my sticks. Agreeing with fool about the veneer we're so good at presenting. it is very easy to say all this stuff very matter of factly because we are use to it, and i think it can be so overwhelming when someone in RL gets it more than you do! I have a doc appt this week for the first time to discuss all this, and my plan is to ask directly if they have any knowledge or experience of EA as I feel too low to have to do the work for them to risk being misunderstood. We are experts at containing and I can see the doctor struggling to believe some of the things I will say when I can sit so calmly and say them without breaking down, but if she says, I'm so sorry, are you ok, I don't know how you've managed all this alone.... ummm .. floodgates, open

So glad you find the understanding we all need here and I'm sorry to hear its so tough right now. Sending you warm wishes for your feeling a bit better today after your rest, and do keep posting and expressing. take care xxx

FairyFi · 26/02/2013 12:35

I realised over the last few days that I don't react to stuff directed at me, I have got sooo good at continainat containing my responses that they don't hit me until well after something has been said that I needed to response to. I have a very strong, delayed reaction filter. it goes in, nothing comes out, ah! then I feel it and have a reaction.... makes me feel and look stoooopid Confused

Talking of reaction!!! I did just jump out my skin, as cat hit the floor from falling off the arm of the sofa where he'd been sleeping! .... but he's climbed back up and settled down again, and will probalby do it again! I wish he'd learn to sleep nearer the floor, but they don't like to do they.

FairyFi · 26/02/2013 12:45

now my FW of a male parent, he is a 'master-baiter' [chuckle]

ponygirlcurtis · 26/02/2013 12:48

Rose, have you tried emailing WA? I never even tried to call them, was too unsure of what to say, so thought it would be easier to write it down. There should be an email address available for your local branch. Someone got back in touch with me quite quickly, and we've emailed off and on for over a year (gawd, nearly a year-and-a-half, in truth!). She has been very helpful and supportive, and has met up with me for a chat and offered outreach workers for support, etc. It's worth a punt.

TisILeclerc · 26/02/2013 13:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

foolonthehill · 26/02/2013 14:21

bounty thanks. have not risked pming you in case he has his greasy mits eye on you.
Proof of the other thing might not matter?...there's enough of the bad stuff for a secure diagnosis of FW whatever.

OP posts:
foolonthehill · 26/02/2013 14:23

a note on interesting responses...2 years before I kicked FW into touch our family Gp responded to my (very coded) cry for help with "some people just aren't built for family life"....now I look back and think he was probably giving me an open door to sort everything out...at the time I couldn't work out what he was saying! Confused

OP posts:
minkembra · 26/02/2013 14:26

ER v quick reply not read all posts. sending you a hug.
IIRC you work- does your work have staff welfare/wellbeing support? I got confidential counselling through mine (v quickly!) has been brill.

foolonthehill · 26/02/2013 14:33

rose Would www.familylives.co.uk be an option for free support and counselling for you?

OP posts:
foolonthehill · 26/02/2013 14:34

sorry link is:familylives.org.uk/

OP posts:
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