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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships: 17

999 replies

foolonthehill · 17/02/2013 13:51

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

OP posts:
FairyFi · 24/02/2013 12:02

thanks Arth... docs say not much, never do really.. she has to go back in to have a follow up tomorro. This is following usual pattern really, but thankfully w/o the hospital! phew. She slept right thro lst night for first night. So lots better, still headachey and stomach ache, sneeezing and coughing! I'm guessing flu?

arthriticfingers · 24/02/2013 12:11

Poor both of you, Fi, fingers crossed for a better day tomorrow.

FairyFi · 24/02/2013 12:52

thanks, Arth seems like another day at home, rather than school.

I just have to register here what a huge FW FW is, because last time this happened at the beginning of autumn, I was teetering on edge of taking her in, so I emailed that to FW [that had managed to get through one night but wasn't sure of the next]. No reply! No contact with his DD to find out how she was?!?!? fucking FW!! - bearing in mind previous admittance was a really close call when it took over 7 hours to stabilise her. This is when I feel that I should be doing my bit by contacting him about the gravity of the situation. I haven't bothered since, but it feels very wrong!

arthriticfingers · 24/02/2013 13:10

Ah, but Fi nobody, and I mean nobody's heath is anywhere near as important as FWs',
What seems like a lifetime ago, but was only BL (before Lundy), any time I or the DCs were ill, FW would, suddenly, develop the same symptoms.
It was yet another thing I laughed off.
Not so funny looking back :(
And :( at it feeling wrong. Everything feels wrong when dealing with FWs because they are so twisted they twist everything.

FairyFi · 24/02/2013 14:15

thanks for valued support Arth. Its the Narc isnt it that does that to get attention back? I can imagine him blaming his lack of contact on me, yeah I really can... because I have gone NC with him (apart from contact arrangements) - however, she says [the stronger side winning for a moment] he does continue to send batteries of emails to me over the course of an entire evening when he's angry - its so bizarre. He's supposed to be in a happy new life with new equally FW gf and her poor kids, why can't he let it go! I'm not actually bothered why (although it triggers me), I'll just keep forwarding his harrassments to the police. Just have to be carefl that he doesn't blame me for her being so seriously ill, as he does Sad.

Yeah, its horrible isn't it, the laughing off, such a betrayal of ourselves Sad I remember Leclerc saying it a while ago about her telling her neighbour and her neighbour saying 'but its not funny really is it?' or similar, and I felt Sad at all the times I've done that. I don't feel like I know what to do tho now! I dont' thinkI've ever learnt what to do in those situations other than laugh it off. This is the bit (long overdue) of learnign to build back up, just not sure where to start. Does Lundy help with that Arth? I'm hoping FP might be a way, a bit of a start.

TheSilveryPussycat · 24/02/2013 15:30

Fi you have got a lot on your plate. PM'd you.

Have also PM's you arth. Ex was crap at looking after me when I was ill - but then I was crap at looking after him when he was - mainly because he couldn't seem to name or describe his symptoms, even though clearly unwell in some way...

TisILeclerc · 24/02/2013 16:10

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

fiveaddwhat · 24/02/2013 18:25

Hello all. Hope life is not too hideous. Can anyone tell me what I should use to record some "conversations" please? All the best to everyone.

FairyFi · 24/02/2013 18:38

ooo, I know the answer to this one five a friend of mine bought a 'spy' pen for her son! Its amazing, and holds a huge amount of data and is very sensitive. I had it in my car when being verbally abused by both exFW and his FW gf on seperate occasions. It was just sat on the dash, but useful to insert things iinto the conversation like date and name the people in the conversation, I had the radio on which caught the news of the day and time of the incidents.

TisILeclerc · 24/02/2013 19:47

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Bertiebassett · 24/02/2013 20:29

So the end of half term....it's so lovely to see DS after 3 days apart....but of course FW is back too and (it seems) is determined to piss me off.

They've only been back a few hours and already I feel so stressed. The healthy appetite I've been cultivating all week I only feel like eating when FW isn't around has completely disappeared since he walked in the house at 5.30pm...I was feeling quite relaxed earlier today and now feel like I'm coming down with something...

Oh well only 11 weeks & 2 days to go...

Recording device? I recently bought an electrical extension lead with a voice recorder built in with a view to getting some 'evidence'...but I chickened out and returned it Hmm

ponygirlcurtis · 24/02/2013 21:01

Hello all, nearly Monday, hold on in there...

Sorry, have only skim-read what's been happening this weekend - but hope you are doing ok. Alice, and have managed to tell him not to come back. You need to. Sending you much support. Have been thinking of you all although I haven't been around.

Thanks for thinking of me lovely ladies (and for your lovely kind words Breathe, I was all Blush!). I've been deliberately awol this weekend, been trying to sort myself out before I went over the edge - or before I pushed myself over. Just trying to do things for myself, which feels very alien. Had a daytime nap and then a lovely bath Friday evening. Yesterday, made myself sit down in front of the tv for the eve rather than 'doing' stuff online all eve, and I bought myself a weekend paper to relax with. I've struggled with my internet connection, so I could have come in to the bedroom to get online at lunchtime, but made a choice to stay in the living room with DS1 instead, and played cards with him. This evening, I could easily faff about online until 11pm, but I'm going to finish this, turn the 'puter off and settle down in front of t'telly with a cuppa and a crossword. (Watch out Ozzy Osbourne!!! There's a new wild child in town! Grin )

I've been sleepwalking for the last while, I need to make more conscious decisions that will actively benefit me and the kids. And I've also been horrendously harsh on myself, almost enjoying mentally punishing myself for perceived 'transgressions', cat-o-nine-tails-style. Tonight I'm going to start a 'what positive thing have I actively done for myself today' diary - in a notebook, not online.

Sending lots of love to all you lovely ladies, my lifeline. I'll be back on tomorrow, I'm not abandoning you, just trying to make some changes for the better to help both me and the boys (in the long term) and readjust myself a bit. xx

CharlotteCollinsislost · 24/02/2013 21:10

FW is being nice. He's too convincing. Wonder whether all the talk will translate into any action?

Please help me with this, if you can: I have said ever since last summer that what would help most is for him to get therapy. I've not really been clear about that, because I'm not sure if he should be in an abuser program, or see a specialist to see if he's narcissistic? (All assuming he agrees to this in a last ditch attempt to save the marriage, which is starting to look like a possibility now.) He seems to realise that he may never have learnt how equal relationships work, and seems to mistrust his dps a little because of their "traditional" attitudes about marriage, but he has a lot to learn. So I'm not overly optimistic about success, but want him to be in with the best chance, iyswim. What should I recommend him to do?

minkembra · 24/02/2013 23:55

charlotte no advice i am afraid. ex went to counselling loans but never about his treatment of others.

maybe there is some advice in should I stay or should I go or the narc stuff.

although if he is a narc from what i have read he won't ever fully see it. there was a here

minkembra · 24/02/2013 23:55

a thread. missed a bit!

FairyFi · 25/02/2013 00:32

I don't think there's any harm in him getting himself checked out for his own sake, but as the saying goes 'he's gotta wanna do it' for himself, and even if he went of his own volition, saying to you, 'I recognise what I'm doing is wrong so I am going to leave until I can get myself sorted out' I think that sounds promising, but even then the numbers are not good from the stuff I've seen/read, sadly, as I hear how much you hope that it can be the salvation of your marriage. If he truly recognised the pain he's causing he'd leave wouldn't he?

I think if I did anything awful I couldn't live with myself and would have to get out. Maybe he's on forums somewhere worrying desperately how he can sort himself out or ways of getting help. I don't know his patterns, but generally the only way to real change is to be apart Sad I'm thinking of similar programmes like AA, because its like an addiction, esp. the narc thing if thats what it is. did you look at 'out of the fog' site? I guess you can only know by asking him his thoughts and balancing his answers with his behaviour and really knowing his deeper beliefs about women, and then also speaking to the psych consult involved.

wholovesyobaby · 25/02/2013 02:06

Hello newbie here looking for sanity, nc for this.
I've had it. Last night furious row over nothing, usual history rewrite we all know and love, venom, now bringing kids into it tho, saying to them, while I am sat next to them, that he will be taking them if we split, that everyone loathes me, I'm horrible and so on. Have no-one in rl. Kids having nightmares and saying to me they don't like daddy.

TisILeclerc · 25/02/2013 07:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FairyFi · 25/02/2013 08:29

Welcome here wlyb Sad I'm sorry that sounds an all too familiar routine. You'll find familiarity here for yourself and hopethat will help with your validation and sanity! Have you spoken to WA, this could help at lot if you have noone else in RL? take care

MrsMorton · 25/02/2013 10:34

I've had EA bingo this weekend and managed a full house. Perfect. We went away with friends (booked a year ago before this got so bad) when we arrived I just wanted to lie down for an hour because in was knackered (only leave this year so far, working 12 hour days flat out atm etc etc) but I had to go to the bar and I was being melodramatic.

Then we had a day of stonewalling and H being flirted with left right and centre (I actually shudder to think what he would have done if it had been me being flirted with but then I don't speak to men just in case he gets angry). Then we were having a good night actually and the wine was flowing and as if by magic H got angry, I could see him looking at me from across the room tapping his foot and chewing his lip which is his tell.

So we went to bed, the following morning I tried to initiate some "intimacy" but he told me to "get off me". So more stonewalling then throughout the day I started feeling a bit cold like and on the flight home I felt really poorly but obviously this is when H starts to tell me that he's horny and complaining that we haven't had enough sex and also why wasn't I having a G&T (because I'm feeling like shit!!). Got home, had a hot drink and a bath and got into bed only for match of the day to finish and H gets into bed expecting sex. WTF.

Sorry for the rant, I just needed to write it down.

Hope everyone else is safe and doing ok.

FairyFi · 25/02/2013 10:46

i've just been looking at this for myself and thought it might be useful for you charlotte to bring it here

TheSilveryPussycat · 25/02/2013 10:52

Blimey, MrsMorotn a round of applause for your FW. He got it right in such detail, from the timing of the sex - (they expect it on holiday, don't they, so you initiate to get on his good side - no he wrong foots you, then wants it when you are too ill) to the plying with unwanted alcohol, to that classic, MotD finishing now let's have sex Grin

Do you think a certain number of drinks might trigger him (have seen this a few times with people I know and anger)? What was he drinking?

WLYB welcome, you seem to have got masses of insight. Are you up to speed on financials? Watch your FW and keep learning his patterns...

MrsMorton · 25/02/2013 11:00

silvery yes alcohol is a big risk factor. Wine and G&T mainly but he's worse on lager (oddly enough he drinks Stella!!).

It's almost laughable, the script like they have their own "mensnet" with a support thread "support for those in emotionally abusive relationships- a step by step guide".

Back to almost silent treatment this morning and I'm dreading it!!

minkembra · 25/02/2013 11:48

Hi wlyb and welcome. (although sorry life has taken you here in the first place IYSWIM)

So quick question to all- does your ex/FW/H whatever know you know?
as in I now know my ex was abusive. (Blush argh I said it) I recognise more of it from our history all the time. But he does not know that I know.

Also do you think your ex/FW/whatever knows he is abusive?
Mine has no idea. Or at least I am pretty sure he has no idea. who really knows what goes on in his head?

The closest he has ever come to knowing is when he has justified something by saying well if you hadn't done x then I would not have had to say/do whatever. So it is your fault and I have said that is exactly what people who beat their partners tell them. and when I kicked him out I said calling me names is verbal abuse and I will not stand for it.

water. duck. back.

so this leads to the weird situation where he turns up to pick up the kids, I open the door, big smile on his face. I don't really feel like smiling at him and think wtf are you smiling about, what's the plan?

Then realise, of course, he doesn't know that I know.

foolonthehill · 25/02/2013 12:04

My FW knows but does not know if you see what i mean.

Some abusers have a plan and a purpose to their actions...but most, I think, have an attitude (entitlement) which justifies what they do...because what they do works for them and they make what they do acceptable to themselves by excuses, justification and minimisation...much as we do.

it helps them to abuse if they never reach the conclusion (around age 7 in normal people) that everyone is "I"...I really feel my FW cannot see us as anything but bit parts in the drama of his life. Satellites around the great heat of his sun.

the nearest we got to understanding was him seeing that some of his actions might be seen as unacceptable by other people...but he quickly retreated back to the justification of..."but if you didn't then i wouldn't".

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