rebuilding relationship with abusive ex?

[gruffalosmother]

I'm after some of your wise advice.
me and my dd's dad broke up nearly a year ago after his was emotionally and physically abusive (throwing things, threats, pushes) . Since then we have lived in refuge, moved to across the country to start a new life and are actually going through court at the moment in regards to contact arrangements.
Things have been very up and down between us since we split. mostly down I suppose, him disappearing, making no effort with dd, him lying about drugs and alcohol. He has however moved across the country to be closer to dd in the last couple of months and was on a perpetrator program before he moved and is waiting to get onto a new one in the place down here.
cut a very long story short, we have met up a couple of times recently. talked about whats been happening, talked about our childhoods, our regrets etc. (I have also been having counselling for about 9 months by the way and am A LOT stronger then I was before) . The second time we met up last week he came to my house, after dd had gone to bed we ended up kissing and a bit more. It was wonderful. I have missed him so much and it seemed even more amazing in some ways than when we were happy together.
I am very wary that this could be a dangerous situation to be in for me and my dd. but he is showing signs of change...or am I falling for his lies and charm again?
I told my best mate about it and understandably, she was pissed off. I feel a bit of an idiot because I've come all this way, gone through refuge, counselling, my friends have been here for me and now I might be throwing it all back in their faces by trying again with him.
Does anyone have experience of once abusive relationships working out second time around? I really don't know what to do.

Do you really want to go down that road again? After all you've done to be safe? Do you want your child to live in a home where there's abuse? To increase her chances of being in abusive relationships when she grows up?

cogito.. i think you have a good point. reading this back i am trying to stick up for him a bit.
bertie.. what you have said touched me quite a lot. Im teary now. yes i do worry that i wont find anyone else. even if there is someone i have no idea how id meet them or build a relationship because i look after dd 24/7 . no family around and few friends. waiting a very long time seems sensible, its hard when emotions are so strong tho. also waiting for years just in case might stop me moving on?

Im aware ss could get involved and it terrifies me. tbh tho they havent been concerned so far.

It's tough now, but it won't always be like this. You'll find trustworthy babysitting, you'll build more of a social circle, you'll go to work/study & meet people there, your dd will get older & more independent.

You're really only just out of the relationship, you haven't had time to get on your feet properly and see what's out there for you.

You won't find anyone else all the time you stay mentally attached to your abuser. It makes you emotionally unavailable to all the perfectly nice men you might meet and will also stop you making an effort to get out and meet them in the first place. The trouble with 'better the devil you know' is that it's still the devil.

Drop contact, make a much bigger effort to improve your social life within the limitations you have available and consign your ex to the past where he belongs.

Ok it's been a year. You aren't over him yet.

My own abusive ex HAS turned his life around. He got zero contact from court, that's how awfull his behaviour had been.

But he has now changed. We have both moved on, it's been 8 years. I saw him at Xmas and I honestly don't have any of those old feelings anymore. It's fine between us. friends only

They CAN change. But not that much.... He will always be the elephant in the room won't he!?

my heart is breaking :( . i so want to be with him and to love each other and be a family but maybe we cant ever do that. i suppose i should talk to him about it.

It's difficult to put it into words but as the pp said, you will move on in different ways. It won't happen overnight but slowly but surely it will.

And you will be able to meet someone else but you probably need to be totally free of this relationship first. I met someone else after my abusive ex and went on to have a long relationship. I had little childcare but we had the odd night out and he was able to come round when ds was in bed and built on it from there. I thought I would be unable to love anyone else but I found I fell for him even more. And one thing it made me realise is that you can love more than once, and there is more than one person out there for us all.

I don't know how old your dd is but there will come a time when she'll be at nursery/school, go to friends houses and you'll be able to get out there and work/study. You might even find you love being single so much that you don't even want another relationship. And then when you least expect it...

Really, don't talk to him about that. Talk to your friends and family. Talk to disembodied us. But don't give an abusive man that kind of emotional ammunition or it will be used against you.

What you actually want is to be with a genetically modified clone of your ex. One that doesn't have the personality traits that forced you to escape to a refuge just a year ago. You are a family already, you and your DD. Make the most of the hand you've been dealt perhaps?

Please don't talk to your ex about it, like cogito says although it may not seem like it to you but it is feeding him. The last thing you need is to be emotionally vulnerable to him.

Talk to someone at Women's Aid, I found them great at giving me a kick up the backside I needed, and yes talk on here.

My worst fear for you and your dd is that you let him back in, and somewhere down the line and it may be a month it may be a year, but he will slip back into old ways. You will be too afraid to seek help because you will be ashamed and won't want to prove everyone right.

I'm not talking out of my arse I've been pretty much exactly where you are, I've tried the second time around and I'm years on from it all now and know that getting away for good was the best thing I could ever have done.

Please don't talk to him about it. He hardly has an unbiased view, does he? He's going to tell you what you want to hear, not the realities.

You have a good friend who wants to see you right, you have access to counselling services, use them, use us.

"my heart is breaking . i so want to be with him and to love each other and be a family but maybe we cant ever do that. i suppose i should talk to him about it."

HELL NO! Don't talk to him about it... it'll be like talking to him in SWAHILI! He has NO emotional concept of what a normal person thinks like, behaves like or relates to others like.

He WILL use that knowledge against you, sooner or later, he has to. They all do.

I am SO sorry that you have to accept that this man is fatally flawed, he will never be the person you thought he was, he will never be a decent partner, and to an extent will always be a poor father to your DD.

You may as well be fantasising about being with you really have NO chance of EVER having a normal, healthy and good relationship with him.

Even if he spends the next 10 years in counselling, in therapy to right the totally warped view he has of women, the world and his place in it, if you get back with him, you will ALWAYS be waiting for the day that you have to get the hell out to a refuge again. You will forever be watching what you say, what you wear, do and even think.

NEXT time, he'll make a better job of isolating you from all sources of help. Next time it'll be harder for you to get out, if indeed you ever try.

Please see that however addicted you feel to the ex, that he's harmful to you, that he could kill you, easily.

Please see that life outside of the abuse is technicolour, it's so free, happy and exciting that it takes your breath away. Sure it's a little scary at first, but bloody hell, when you see how wonderful a life other people live, and how YOU CAN HAVE IT TOO, you will soon realise what you lost, how much time you wasted and how brilliant you could have had it.

Sure it's sad to realise that we messed up, but you need to live every day from now on, knowing that you are owed that happiness, that love and laughter are part of life, not something we do with the permission of another.

I agree, call WA, call Respect, anyone, but not him.

He will tell you what HE wants you to think. They always do love.

And he might play the trick of playing it cool, agreeing that it's probably best that you don't get back together, be good parents to dd seperately.

Which will make you of course do the exact opposite.

but i need to tell him something . we've told each other we care about each other and are thinking things over. if i suddenly start ignoring him then that coukd work against me (especially as we're gping through court) . we need to be able to communicate for our dd , as him moving here has proven he isnt going anywhere soon.

... i might ring womens aid. i have counaelling in a couple of days too so could talk it over then. he really isnt trying to charm me he is being v open about keeping his distance . no matter what he says it could be interpretated as being abusive because of the past.

if i suddenly start ignoring him then that coukd work against me (especially as we're gping through court) . we need to be able to communicate for our dd , as him moving here has proven he isnt going anywhere soon.

You can't see how this is possibly engineered?

Can you not see that you are modifying your behaviour because of him and his court case?

Moving there has had only ONE meaning, that he won't allow you to move on with your life.

And if a man is bad enough that you have to go into a refuge to get away from him and half way across the country, WTF is he doing having contact with his child? Seriously? What does he have to offer?

IMVHO abusers should have NO contact with anyone, let alone children.

He IS charming you, he really is. He IS abusive, he WILL try to control you both again.

You are being blinded by him, you have not been given the space to escape his poisonous fog. You are doubting your own decisions to save yourselves and he is feeding that doubt.

Don't fall for it.

They don't change.

Ever.

Read your LUNDY!

The past? It is a matter of months ago - it's not like there have been vast swathes of time in which he has heroically conquered his demons - he has been lying & playing silly buggers with access & drugs & drink up until very recently.

Please do call Women's Aid.

you're right, he.has been atrocious this last year and the lies keep coming..
Im so so gutted and disappointed he couldn't have tried to sort himself out ages ago.
i do fear i Will b alone forever as my childhood has taught me nothing about how a relationship should be.
thank you all so much for being so kind and taking time to post.

There's a shiny new future out there for you and your dd, out of his shadow. It's not going to be easy to get there, but so well worth it.

Don't be dragged backwards by loneliness and the familiar.

I'm 2 years on from ex leaving. I was agoraphobic, isolated, alone and frightened of everything.

I did the Freedom programme, attended a support group whenever I could, and paid for therapy.

I lost my family in all of it too, as I realised how their treatment of me had led to me thinking abuse was all I was worth.

I'm happier than I have ever been in my life.

I too swore off men, I needed to in the early days. The idea of it was too terrifying.

However... If we allow our abusive exes to shut down our lives, they've won. Can you see that?

My advice is to get legal advice, to make sure your court thing is fair to you, and then distance yourself from him.

You need that space, you really do. You need to heal.

All I ask of you is to commit to taking whatever steps it takes to make bloody sure that you never fall into this relationship with him or any other controlling nasty man again.

Don't rule out a normal relationship from your future, just accept that you need to work to put your barriers in place, to value yourself and know that you have a right to be treated with love and respect.

You're not ready yet, not by a long chalk, but one day, I'm fairly sure you will be.

Why would you want to go back to this man? He is abusive towards you and everytime you let him back into your life he learns more about to manipulate you becomes cleverer.

He is bad news and no good can come of this relationship.

just wondring if i drop contact for him then how can he be there for dd? he has started txting asking after her and wants to help out more. she also asks me to ring daddy (shes 22mo btw) .

Oh no. All that work you are so nearly there.
You don't need him!

He can be a father without being in YOUR life .

If the court really thinks she should see him (and they may not unless you give them a reason to) then there are plenty of contact centres where you can drop her off for them to have "quality time" without you coming anywhere near him.

If he is reliable and reasonable about this contact then there may be another unsupervised stage BUT I wonder how long he will stay a devoted father when she does not give easy access to you.

EVEN if he changes it will take a long long time and a lot of effort on his part. At the moment the only effort he appears to be putting in is chasing you around the country.

EVEN if he changed massively he may not be able to change WITH YOU as you have deeply embedded learned responses to him.

Let him go,
Look after yourself and your DD
Leave the romance for later and concentrate on friendships, building a new life and yourself.
You will be glad you did.