would you date a transgendered man?

[ecofreeek]

I am in my late 30's and single (divorced). Recently though work I met a man who seemed really nice. We flirted a bit and last weekend he asked me out for a drink. It went really well, nice snog! and we arranged to meet for dinner this week

At dinner he told me that basically he used to be a woman. He has had testosterone treatment for many years and both breasts removed and a hysterectomy. But not the surgery that makes a penis...

I really like him. But I'm a bit freaked out. I guess that's why he told me 'early' in our dating... I dont want any more children s thats not an issue... its the whole man thing - he looks like a man, acts like a man and I would never have guessed that biologically he is not a male...

the sex thing ....

would you date a transgendered man >?

Amberleaf - it can be if you're Trans!

I've been thinking about this and I would just see how it goes. If he is a nice guy and you both get on well then just enjoy it.

As for the sex thing, well, different partners are different anyway aren't they? And you don't know what it will be like unless you try it - if you don't enjoy yourself, you don't have to do it again!

I also don't think you would need to tell your dds. Most people don't discuss their partner's genitals in detail with others, especially their children!

Just found a lovely quote from Graham Norton in David Walliams' autobiography which I think applies in your situation: "I could enjoy sex with a man or woman - it's all the same really. Sexuality is more about the emotional rather than the physical side of things. What really matters is whose arms you want around you."

I am uncomfortable with the idea that if this isn't something you would want, you are somehow in the wrong, bigoted or narrow minded. I think that for a lot of people dating = sex, at some point, eventually, after a few dates people normally begin to get intimate - don't they? You don't date someone and not end up kissing them, and then end up, eventually, if you like each other, in bed with them. And THAT'S where it changes. This is a person who, at the moment, has female genitals. If you are not a person who is sexually excited by female genitals - this is going to be a problem for you at that point! Surely? That doesn't in itself make you any sort of bigot!

If there's not going to be sex, and it's just going to the cinema, going for a meal, watching tv together etc etc then it's just a person who looks, sounds, acts, feels - male and if that's what you like then you're going to be fine aren't you? and it wouldn't be an issue but I don't think that it's unreasonable of someone to say that they really don't want to get into bed with someone who has a vagina and clitoris and dive in face first if that's not their sexual preference!

That isn't in itself bigoted. It is about sexual organs and which set does it for you! If that isn't accepted as reasonable, and is considered bigoted then by extension everyone who is heterosexual would be a bigot for not having sex with a person of the same gender and everyone who is homosexual would be a bigot for not having sex with a person of the opposite gender! You have to accept and respect sexuality in all its forms and that includes the right to not want to engage in sexual behaviour with someone who is in possession of a set that is not sexually attractive to you!

I think it is unfair to say that this is a person who considers themselves male, has had some surgery, but has not had genital surgery and therefore still has female genitalia but you must disregard this and be sexually attracted/active with them or you're a bigot.

I think it would have been better to split the question into two.

1 would you go on a date with a transgendered man who had not had the genital surgery and therefore still had female genitals

2 would you have sex with a transgendered man who had not had the genital surgery and therefore still had female genitals

AmberLeaf - What problems in utero? if you can, please explain them to me. I don't want to be a bigot, but unless someone is a hermaphrodite or intersex they just are either male/female. that is organic isn't it?

Transgender is when a person is born with the wrong reproductive organs.
Gender is entirely reliant on which organs you have as they produce hormones that change the physical form into the gender that you are.
So if problems occur in utero that mean you develop the wrong reproductive organs you will basically be a person trapped in the wrong body. I think it is quite possibly the worst birth defect imaginable.

AmberLeaf - I don't think thats true really, again not in the case of intersex, but having a normally functioning penis/vagina is a physical abnormality.

I have a friend that is transgender that would whole hartedly disagree with you. If anything being trans is worse because at least with an obvious 'simple' birth defect it is easy to explain and people understand, with trans most people find it difficult to understand and just assume you are gay and/or a freak.

I totally agree Hec. We seemed to have reached the point in PC land where we have to say we would sleep with a woman who has had her breasts removed or we are automatically a bigot.

People are attracted to all sorts of different people, attraction is not right or wrong, it's attraction! I personally like men with the body shape of James Corden, most of my friends find this crazy and say they could never fancy a man wholooks like that. My SIL who is mixed race like DH says she only finds dark haired, olive skinned, men attractive... Does that make her a bigot? She has a type, I have a type. Do we have to now pretend that actually we don't and would sleep with anyone? Is that now the 'right' thing to say?

Tb truly honest I have no idea. I've never dated a woman either. However I do feel that the person is the most important part. Iykwim. I think the person could mean u want/desire things u ordinarily thought u might not. So ultimately, possibly. Possibly I could. I'd still worry about all sorts of things but I think possibly sums it up the most positively I could answer u.

Hope it helps.

i dont think its worng to not want to have sex with a transexual person. Its ok to not want to have sex with anyone. Its not nice to start making shitty remarks and deliberatly offensive statements about trans people.

I like sex with women nearly as much as sex with men, although have never had sex with a trans person, If there was attraction and connection there, I dont see why it wouldnt be great.

I think that Eco's question is specifically difficult to answer because she hasnt said what type of trans the man is.

There are many different stages of transgender that people want and are aspiring to.

If we are talking about a pre surgery trans then the argument is pretty different to if the man is a stage three trans (basically, breasts removed, on testosterone, living as a man, but with no plans to have the full VtoP surgery)

If we are talking about a level 3 trans than I think Hecate makes a brilliant point and I completely agree in everything she says.

However, level 3 trans is rare, virtually everyone that begins surgical reassignment has the complete and full surgeries.

"But I'm a bit freaked out."

That's why you should probably not date this man further OP. If you carry on dating thinking you're going to get over this initial reaction - or thinking that you should get over it - you are probably not being honest with yourself. Yes he's been very brave to come clean early on but you're really under no obligation to continue just because he's done that.

WeAreEternal

Thank you.

Can I just say Im not quibbling over whether a transgender person is or isn't, Im just trying to understand it!

If they are born with the wrong body parts, does that mean they have the opposite brain? are there male and female brains?

I know that hormomes affect body growth etc, but I think that gender expectations are also social/cultural?

It is really hard to understand how it must feel, but Id like to.

Teedeeuk, yes I get your point!

I really think it would totally depend on the person. And there's no harm in taking this slowly and working out your feelings, same as you would with any prospective boyfriend. I wouldn't rule anything out specifically because of this. It's not like you have to sign a contract to stay with him forever - see if it works out on the basis of who he is as a whole person. If it doesn't, it doesn't. But if you like him it would be a shame not to try.

On the telling people front, I don't see why you have to. For anyone who's not sleeping with him or having a romantic relationship with him it's irrelevant, because they just deal with him socially and socially he is a woman and lives as a woman.

Have read whole thread. Hecate sums it up for me:

I personally do not think that I could touch, kiss, lick, stroke or whatever - female genitals. It's just not for me.

I would add - what i know used to be female genitals too. I wouldn't be able to mentally get past it.

No problem with friendship with and total social acceptance of transpeople, gay, lesbian, asexual, bi or whoever. Live and let live.

I had a friend at school who 'had a sex change' maybe twenty years ago now, this was after living as a man for some years too. I would hope that anyone dating him wouldn't find his past a barrier.

I wouldn't date someone however who was still working through these issues and deciding whether to do it or not, I don't think. I would expect them to have too much to think about. Perhaps that is terrible of me.

Just to add i too would be a bit about not being told till after the snog, tbh.

Not sure about the posts about what an amazing wonderful attractive person he must be, from those other than the OP.

I have a lot of sympathy for those wrestling with this for the first time.

Like someone up thread, we now have three family friends or colleagues who are trans-gender (at various stages).

It meant that when I mentioned that a friend's child (at 19) was transgender and would be known by a different name now, my own kids just said, 'Oh. Like Nikki?' [not her real name] and clearly think it's just something some adults do, rather than being puzzled by the whole thing.

I still struggle, though, to see just how someone can be so desperate to live 'as a woman' or 'as a man', because I'm not sure what I do that counts as 'living as a woman' myself. Nikki is certainly very traditionally 'feminine', far more addicted to skirts and accessories than most of my jeans and sweatshirts-wearing friends, but it's clearly a much deeper need to change the whole body. And it's a need that starts early: friend's child has know for many years that he needed to change.

I suspect I can't understand it because I'm not, myself, transgender. That's about it, really.

I still struggle, though, to see just how someone can be so desperate to live 'as a woman' or 'as a man', because I'm not sure what I do that counts as 'living as a woman' myself. Nikki is certainly very traditionally 'feminine', far more addicted to skirts and accessories than most of my jeans and sweatshirts-wearing friends, but it's clearly a much deeper need to change the whole body. And it's a need that starts early: friend's child has know for many years that he needed to change

I suspect I can't understand it because I'm not, myself, transgender. That's about it, really

I can totally relate to that.

Assuming I was single I can honestly say I don't know. It would depend on the person. If I really liked them I'd be prepared to see if we could make sex work. The only problem would be if I wanted children.

Hecate's post says it best I think.

I'm very heterosexual and would need a big penis for me to really enjoy sex.

If that penis was attached to a transgendered man who used to be a woman, that might be okay, as long as I had sufficient chemistry with that person.

But no, I wouldn't want to have sex with a man who has a vagina.

I posted a thread about transgender issues in children a few years ago, and just thought I should refer to it here, as I think it gives some interesting viewpoints into transgender issues.

If you do an advanced search for Transgender Child here, you will actually find many threads on the topic, so it cant be as uncommon as we think.

I do however feel that it is important to recognize that whilst it is possible to have nothing but respect, love and admiration for a transgender person, when it comes to relationships and sexuality, you have to make a decision like you do with all relationships and sexual encounters. You usually dont embark on a sexual relationship unless you are attracted to or turned on by that person, and if you are, then that is all you need to know. Gender and genitals become secondary. And if it doesnt for you, then there you have your answer.

Man with a vagina? I'm getting confused. I have lived a very sheltered life.

I absoloutly wasn't trying to start an argument with you AmberLeaf I was just answering your comments. Sorry if it sounded like I was, I guess some of the negative comments put me on the defensive.

My trans friend is one of my oldest friends, our parents are friends and I have know him virtually my whole life and we have always been close.
I have been witness to every part of his journey to become on the outside who he is on the inside. I shared his pain and cried for him many times so this is a subject that I take quite personally.

I don't know if there is physiologically a difference between male and female brains, but I believe there is a difference.

I think one of the main misconceptions is that being trans is the same as being gay, except that you are such a camp homosexual that you want to be a girl, or such a masculine lesbian that you want to be a man.

It is not that way at all, infant I have met gay transgender people.

Being trans has nothing to do with sexuality, it is about making you into the person you are supposed to be.

HeyHo you sound like an amazing woman, I wish my friends parents had accepted him as well as you have of your son, one of his biggest battles was accepting that his parents were never going to accept him as their son, and it still breaks his heart.

Go along with it and see how things go. My dd is trans and I hope she will one day be able to have a relationship with a man who can love her for who she is - however I think it may be easier for a boy-to-girl trans than the other way around.