would you date a transgendered man?

[ecofreeek]

I am in my late 30's and single (divorced). Recently though work I met a man who seemed really nice. We flirted a bit and last weekend he asked me out for a drink. It went really well, nice snog! and we arranged to meet for dinner this week

At dinner he told me that basically he used to be a woman. He has had testosterone treatment for many years and both breasts removed and a hysterectomy. But not the surgery that makes a penis...

I really like him. But I'm a bit freaked out. I guess that's why he told me 'early' in our dating... I dont want any more children s thats not an issue... its the whole man thing - he looks like a man, acts like a man and I would never have guessed that biologically he is not a male...

the sex thing ....

would you date a transgendered man >?

you have to be comfortable op,I don't think of myself as bisexual as such but have thought before about being with a woman. so I like men but also in theory find then idea of a woman exciting but being honest I can't see myself with a man with vagina don't think that makes me a bigot, I'm just not sexually interested and I wouldn't fuck someone I didn't want to to prove a point.

I'm sure people wouldn't see the OP as a bigot because she doesn't find him sexually attractive.

have you read the thread

LadyKinbote you said "Just found a lovely quote from Graham Norton in David Walliams' autobiography which I think applies in your situation: "I could enjoy sex with a man or woman - it's all the same really. Sexuality is more about the emotional rather than the physical side of things. What really matters is whose arms you want around you." "
which is all very well but then, when did Graham Norton last sleep with a woman?

And someone else thought it was a bit sad that someone would base their relationship around a penis.
But we all base our relationships around something, don't we? And to start with, those things will probably seem shallow but they're the things that ignite the spark.
I agree that someone should be identified as the gender that they want but if doesn't follow that a potential lover should have to sweep their own preferences aside in order to facilitate this.
I probably would not find a man with freckles and red hair attractive. And I shouldn't have to sleep with him in order that he can feel attractive. Same with a man without a penis. I would miss penetrative sex and would not like to have to do without it and I don't think any kind of strap-on would convince me. It doesn't make me bigoted or close-minded, just because I know what I like.

I assumed from the quote that he did sleep with women but then of course neither of us know! I take the quote to mean that the mechanics of sex isn't the most important thing but that love and affection is. I do genuinely think that if I really loved someone I could get used to an unconventional sex life. Doesn't matter in the OP's case as it sounds like he's not for her after all which is fair enough.

I think I also saw an interview with Graham Norton where he said that he had only had a relationship with one woman when he was in his early twenties, that he had had this stupid notion that you could love a person rather than a gender but then realised he wasn't being true to himself and has only slept with men since.
And I think, yes, it would be nice to think that gender didn't really matter to anyone but sex is a big part of most relationships and if either person doesn't find it satisfying, then it will probably cause more trouble further down the line and possibly a more heartbreaking break-up than breaking up in the early stages would do.

All these people saying that it's silly/shallow to place so much importance on the genitalia/gender of the trans man in question, and to not be able to see past it to the person and to give the sex a try because it might be great - isn't that the same argument that has been used to dissuade gay men and lesbians from their preferences since forever? Would it be ok to do a reverse AIBU from the perspective of telling a lesbian that she really is being very shortsighted to dismiss penises with nice human beings attached to them from her repertoire, because she might actually, you know, really like it if she tried? Of course not. All hell would break loose.

I don't think I could, I'd be to freaked out

Fellatio (didn't expect to be writing that!) - that's a really good point. Tbh it's impossible to guess how I'd react in the OP's position.

Good point Fellatio

Graham norton could have sex with a man or woman. He has a penis and they both have orifices. If the orifice didn't exist he would then use a fake plastic orifice (you can buy them apparently) and still say the same? Don't think so.

I agree, FN. I seriously doubt that many people are able to have sex with someone who is not of the gender that is their preference.

I have heard views from men who are gay where they describe how revolting they find female genitals. I mean actually yukky shudder ew! Are they bigoted? I agree with you that telling a lesbian (for example) that she's wrong to not have a sexual relationship with a man because she's wrong to care about gender and it's only a penis and all that would get you hung, drawn and quartered! and rightly so!

I find female gentials sexually offputting. A strap on might work for me and I would be fine with them touching me - but I'd never be able to sexually satisfy my partner if they had female genitals! Because I would not be able to touch them in a sexually stimulating way.

How fair is THAT? Ok, we'll find a way for you to satisfy me. Touch me, strap this on. But do me a favour and take care of yourself, would you?

That's really selfish and unfair to them. It isn't thinking about their needs at all. You don't do that to someone in a relationship.

Without wishing to sound patronising I do feel incredibly sorry for trans people and all people who are confused or unhappy about their gender and/or their sexuality, especially 'pre-op' where they are always forced to have this conversation every time they embark on a new relationship, and risking rejection at every turn.

Looking completely like a woman, but acting like a man and wishing you were a man, people can accept, even if they don't fully undersand it.

Looking like a woman whilst acting/dressing/displaying the body language of a man (to my eyes at least, but I realise that is a contentious view among lesbians) but still being identifying very strongly as a woman (as in a gay, butch woman) on the whole, people can understand, even if it alienates them and bewilders them.

Looking completely like a man, living as a man, sounding completely like a man but with a surprise vagina is much, much more of a head fuck.

Although I haven't seen a post-op 'created' penis or vagina but I'm going to hazard a guess that a conversation still needs to be had there too. I doubt they are so good that you could get away without telling a partner. And if the relationship gets serious then you would be basically living a massive lie to not mention the first 30 odd years or whatever of your life, so even then you are taking a huge risk that when you tell someone you love, they might freak out and ditch you anyway.

Getting your gender 'changed' solves one problem but must create a whole host of others, especially given that a trans person's sexuality is not always straightforward either. For example they may wish to become a woman, but not wish to sleep with men, or vice versa. I imagine it's extremely difficult to know how/where to start in forming 'normal' relationships but to be honest I imagine it's safest to just stick to bisexual people as they are going to be more open minded and less freaked out generally. It's a lot to ask a truly hetero or truly gay person to deal with.

I hope there is a dating agency somewhere that caters for these people and matches them up with people who don't give a toss - because life must be very hard otherwise.

Just read through the thread and feel the same as hecate, I could probably cope with other means to satisfy myself, but really wouldn't feel comfortable with pleasing someone else's vagina, and to me that's a big part of sex. I want to enjoy giving my partner pleasure. If the buck stops with my enjoyment I would never relax or get over the feelings of selfishness.

I also wonder whether it's particularly fair not to be honest with him about why you don't want the relationship to go further. He doesn't sound stupid and will know so soon after telling you that it's the reason you don't want to go further. I think I'd have to risk offending him and try as be as sensitively honest as I could.

Everyone has a right to say what they like and what they don't, but this is never an excuse for silly sweeping generalisations and offensive transphobia.
(Or biphobia or any other prejudice). I don't think it is all about the person not the gender, else we would all be bisexual. And whereas I think we are all on a sliding scale of sexuality, most people do have likes and dislikes, be it for a certain set of genitals, hair colour, build etc.
I prefer feminine women with long hair and an attitude. Does it make me bigoted to say I don't find most butch women attractive?

No, but it makes you quite the bigot to say that straight women are like noodles, that is - straight until you get them wet, haven't forgotten that little quip from you Gay40. And you have the nerve to call out other people.

its done.

kids are with their grandparents this weekend (xh being a tool as usual but that's another issue)

I was supposed to meet him tonight, but I called and asked if he would meet me for coffee this morning. I think he knew as soon as I called...

In the end I didn't have to lie, nor did it feel right to. He just said something like 'Its too much for you' - more as a statement than a question really. And i had to agree. I said I was sorry (which I am) and that I didn't intend to hurt him, and that I would respect his privacy... turns out few people in this town 'know' - its about 50 miles from his home town, obviously old friends and family do, but he has found it 'easier' not to disclose and has had no problem 'passing' as male (well I didn't spot it! ). He has mostly dated bisexual women, funny he seemed pleased that I didn't see him as a lesbian - he said others have called him that.

sorry if this is TMI - I can't really discuss IRL with my fantastic friends, as it feels.. um too personal (for him). I feel sad; relieved I have been honest, and quite tired :-(. Its given me a whole new insight into the stress and pain that transgendered people go through . Stuff that most of us don't think about - using the public toilet for example ... being in hospital (in a male bay with female genitals ??)

I hope we'll be friends. Not sure thats ok for him but I have left a kind of open invite to go and see Les Mis at the cinema.... if he wants too...

It's not a quip...it's been a fact.

But interesting that you hung onto that.

Ahem it's not a fact. You're talking pish dear.

OP I think that you dealt with it in the best way possible. Although its 'not for you', you're open minded enough to have some understanding of the 3rd party.

Here's hoping you have a good friend out of this anyway.

Eco, I think you handled it fine and have nothing to feel guilty about.

I am amazed how dense and bigoted some people are, though. No one is telling you that you must have sex with people of [insert designated group/class of choice that you don't personally find attractive]. You're just being told to STFU about how eeky, yucky, icky, freaky and abnormal you find it. But then, so many 'heterosexuals' are massively insecure about the idea that anyone might think, even for a minute, that they are not NORMAL.

It's been a fact in my experience. So not exactly pish.

SGB, some people are terrified by the thought of "other".

Gay, do you think that straight people can be "turned" gay then ?

Because if I said the converse, you would not be too pleased

A fact in your experience is not A Fact. It's your experience.

It can only be fact if it's proven to be known or true.

One person experiencing something does not make it A Fact.