Support thread for those in Emotionally abusive relationships :15

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Bertie. Hope you are resting tonight, that sounds epic. You are not mad for trying to comfort your FW in his distress. You are a normal, empathetic, human seeing someone who you used to love in distress. However, you can bet he wouldn't do the same if it was reversed (without an ulterior motive). Glad it's done, and sorted.

Leclerc go for your tattoo, if you want to. It's a symbol. I understand why your are going for what you are.

But FW still shouldn't be talking to DD2 about all his emotional hardships/journeys on the programme. I worry that he's 'grooming' her to take his side and sympathise with him over you. Ie that he knows exactly what he's doing by talking to her the way he is, and he has a plan for her.

Right, so am about to email FW's mum in reply to her email saying she wants to give DS1 something for his birthday. Is this ok do you think?
Hi 'FW's Mum', thanks that would be lovely, let me know if you want me to bring the boys over one weekend'
Or really, do you think I'd be better just not getting involved, staying away from her, etc???

Sorry, Fi, meant to answer your query of earlier - FW could claim 50-50 equity of the house, rather than going for the £50k-£20k that we originally put in. Morally, we should both get back what we put in, given that we lived there together for less than a year. Legally, he's entitled to take half, ie £35k. I could take it to court, but it wouldn't achieve more than 55-45 in my favour.

Hmm not sure pony. I am leaving contact with FW's family up to him. Shame for my dc really as the only times we ever saw them were on my instigation, so they will very rarely get to see their cousins now.
Do you think your FW would use his mum to get under your skin?

this was the same battle pony friend got her investment back of a third of the property value. He didn't have deposit but expected to get 50/50 split of any equity left (which was basically her deposit as only in the property maybe yr or 2!) What a FW. he didn't get it. and now I think of it, he also did a thing about the mortgage payments he made, trying to get half back (or was that someone else's question?) good luck with it Pony

Pony you're so right about the comforting. It felt a little awkward but I had to comfort him...I would have felt inhuman to just leave him there sobbing and by the way he wasn't sobbing about me it was about 'losing' DS

Funnily enough when the mediator walked me to the lift (leaving FW in her office - I always leave first) I had a bit of a breakdown and she comforted me. In a lovely caring way to...brushing my hair off my face and hugging me....telling me it was going to be all right....you know what normal nice people do when someone is distressed. It occurred to me then that at no point in the past year (as its been just over a year since I found out about FWs exploits) has he 'comforted' me or told me everything was going to be all right. It was always about him...how he felt...and I reckon it always will be...

So anyway, mediation is now over. We have agreed everything and just need the court order and the decree absolute. I guess I have more or less what I wanted. I'm keeping the house, I'm going to be the resident parent, and DS will spend more time with me than with FW. The precise details aren't exactly ideal...but then it could have been an awful lot worse.

The most difficult thing in the short term is that I have to wait until the middle of May for him to move out...

Fi were they married? Also, this is in Scotland, maybe that makes a difference. But I will investigate with other solicitors.

Louise, er I mean Leclerc, that's exactly my dilemma! I am not sure if FW has been honest with stories about her (although my gut is that he has). Even if not, maybe it's easier to just let that contact (with DS1, not DS2) drop, easier for DS1 I mean, in terms of dealing with things. From speaking to my stedaughters this evening, it would seem that FW's painted me as the bad one of course to his mum. So just unsure how to respond to her email.

May??????? [anger]

Maggie I hope you're able to leave soon. Your FW sounds awful scary.

Landlord has sent an email to say I can have the house. I haven't answered yet.

All of a sudden I'm crying at the thought of leaving H. It sounds clichéd but I can't imagine life without him. In fact, I have never been without him as an adult. I don't know what I'm going to do on my own.

He went to the doctors because of yesterdays' episode and they gave him the diazepam. I have been asking him for ages to go to see a doctor in case he was depressed and each time he told me to fuck off. He must have realised that it was a serious thing, getting so angry as to smash a laptop so he finally decided to see the doctor. He implies that he needs the medication because of me and if I didn't annoy him then he'd be OK. I feel so guilty in case I really did make him ill even though I honestly, truly hand on heart don't think I'm that difficult to live with. I feel like a bitch leaving him on his own with his tablets. I keep picturing him on his own, without the DC.

Leclerc I, and this is only me speaking, think that FWs seeing the error of their ways is up there with the tooth fairy. :(
The reason it is so hard to let go is not only giving up on history it is also giving up on what it is normal to expect when wrongs have been done.
Think of it as 'good money after bad' as the saying goes; that is what I am trying to do.

Nora, it takes a while to get over the feelings of guilt. I had them, especially when he was saying his life was over. Funnily enough, he is getting on with it just fine. Everything is just a tactic to get you to do what he wants. You haven't made him ill. You really haven't. When can you have the house? Seize the opportunity with both hands and don't look back.

Nora your leaving is NOT stopping him getting sorted. That is entirely up to him. You can't do it by staying.
Going, on the other hand, will give you time and space to heal.
What he does he can only do himself. You cannot do it for him. Don't give him any more excuses.
Your children, however, need you terribly - move to the new place for you, so that you can become free and look after them as they deserve.

Nora, once you leave, you get a breather and some space. If he sorts himself out properly, you can choose to go back, but it's on your terms. You owe it to yourself. I know it's terrifying. I know it's not really what you want to do - ideally you want him to sort himself out and change. But the truth is that you leaving wont stop him from doing these things, in fact it'll help the process.

Go for it.

I don't know what I'm going to do on my own far more than you did when you were with him Nora !! Its hard not to assume its going to be something to be fearful of, but you are liberating your family. Its time to let go of all that you've been fighting these years. What is he? Please don't say you are a bitch for leaving him, you must be scared of him? thats why you're leaving, and scared for your children, and many other things besides (super patient! subdued, etc), but not a bitch. and well of course he's need the medication because of you (so if he wants to think like that, you are doing him a favour you can tell him!)

Canyou move out til May Bertie? Some kind friend family who will keep you away from him til you can move back home?!?!

Oh darn it Pony yes, I guess it will be different. I had forgotten about the different laws. I think theirs was done on the premise that the £60k deposit from her (willed to her) would never have been intended to become his, I think if I remember lots of FWittery since then has addled my brain on that basis it was taken out of the equation before anything else done. Valuation done instead of property sold, and (because so little equity left and she'd paid for new kitchen, etc) he owed money!) He was allowed off scot free in the end, but a far cry from the lump sum he was greedily awaiting demanding

Aaaaaand what arthriticfingers said, in spades. In fact, staying will impede him getting sorted. Grab this house.

I was in too an emotional place to be make permanent decisions like a tattoo Leclerc Looking back I'd wait to be a couple of years away from it to see if I still felt the same, but that was me and my journey (which has been a bit slow I reckon! and a lot longer )

he had been trying to force a sale Pony but when he found out he would owe money (once the £60k taken out), he opted for the aggregate valuation of 3 agents.
and forgot to say, no, unmarried.

Nora please don't feel any guilt, that's his tactic. Since when are we these fws' mums?? They are grown up and have not done their fair share (or any share) of looking after us, so it's time we stopped our kindness to them (I say this, trying to convince myself too )

Fingers wise words re tooth fairy!

Bertie I am thrilled for you that you will get mostly what you need and have every right to. Shame it's such a long wait till your fw fucks off in May. Can you plan your holiday for April? Something to focus on and then by the time you get back, he will be on his way and you can get the place sorted to your satisfaction [blissful emoticon]

My ideal is to have my house back and fw out. But he is making lots of boaking moves at the mo, I can see full blown fake love on the horizon. Luckily I know I can never love him again, even if the pesky pity and kindness towards someone I've know for so long do trip me up a lot. But I guess I will move into flat in Feb and try and get him out of house from there.

Nora - glad you got a "yes"! Could FW have gone to the doc for the same reason he smashed the computer - because he sensed a change in you and is trying everything he can think of to terrorise/guilt-trip you into staying?

Leclerc - well, that's reassuring in a way, I suppose! I expect some of my suspicions about him are a bit paranoid... but you never know, do you? Once you realise there are lies, how do you know where the truth ends and the lies begin?

Nora yes yes yes!! Take the house! You won't look back! Do you mind me asking if you work or were able to get the house as a SAHM that will rely on benefits? My FW wouldn't let me go back to my career part time even, so I will have to rely on benefits until I get on my feet. But am finding it so difficult for landlords to even consider me! Am sure they all think single mums on benefits are like jeremy kyle peeps! Not true!! I have all my own teeth!

Over the last 13 years I have on about 3 or 4 occassions just uped and left and gone to my parents house, I have always returned-he has either come and basically got me or laid on the guilt-DCs toys all left behind, their bedrooms etc. Basically using the kids. The next time will be different, I will have a new home to go to and all our stuff will be moved into it before he even knows we have left therefore there will be no reason whatsoever for me to return to this house. I am thinking of changing my car too around the same time-one time when I left, I stayed in a hotel in a nearby town and he must have been driving around all night as he found my car in the what I thought was a hidden away car park, bombarded me with texts/calls, eventually left but left a note on my windscreen exclaiming his love for me . Really wouldn't want him knowing my new address until much later down the line.

Fly sounds like your post planning going really well can I ask how the order for him to stop taking the kids out of the country works? Does he get a copy etc? Just thinking ahead here.

Pony only you can judge best, but here I have tried my best to get the MIL on my side and she is. I bet your MIL has no clue how cruel he has been with DS1 maybe she needs to hear a few home truths or heavy hints as I've been doing here, I have been saying to mine that he is her son and I don't want to say too much but blah blah blah-she has been drawing her own conclusions and gets the idea. Does not know and never will know the full horror of what I've been put through by her son but she is close to my DC and ill be damned if I'm going to go and she think I'm the bad one and not FW.

Leclerc go for the tattoo!! I have a few little hidden ones already that each tell a story and when this nightmare is over would also like to get another hidden one to symbolise the end of this. I don't like them on show but they are there just for me and everytime I see them they remind me of tough times.

Waves at all other ladies, sorry not wrote to you all but always in my thoughts

Have had a headache and feeling ill all day and now FW in bed for a bit am feeling better already-amazing isn't it?!

Wishing all a peaceful tuesday xx

Just catching up. maggie you take care and get yourself safe.

I will add my FW car story. I had mived out and was living about three miles away in the next village but still took kids to see FW who made it plain he wanted me back. Well not me, just an emotional punchbag.

It was a very lonely country road with a deep dyke cut right by the road, most of its length and in a very foggy part of England, so it could be quite dangerous although I knew the road like the back of my hand, as I grew up around here.

One night, went to see him with baby, some sort of row, I forget the details... So many, you lot will understand... When I say row I mean me being shouted at for nothing and called racist if I showed any upset as "It is normal for Italians to shout" etc etc. usual crap. I was so uoset for some reason when I got to my car I couldnt drive off. I had to stop crying and see straight for one thing, it was one of them nights when there was zero visibility due to the fog. So I sat waiting to calm down and after about half an hour, I heard sirens. Lots of them.

By the time I set off, there was a police block across the road, and a car upside down in the dyke. It had been travelling the other way but had crossed what would have been my oath, had I set off. I realised I coud be there now, dead. And he would soend the rest if his life telling everyone, including my older kids, that I had had a fit of "spite", been argumentative and driven off at speed and killed that man. Found out next day the driver was dead at the scene. He would have gone into me, but I would have got the blame. And my kids would have grown up thinking I was to blame.

Oops excuse typos ... On iPad.

I have often wondered what instinct stopped me from driving straight home that night. The spooky thing was the crash happened right opposite the farm where my mother was born.

spine chilling teapot - you were being 'looked after' that night!

Hope FW stays in bed ALL DAY Maggie - hoping, for your sake, he'll go back to work?!?! and that snow will magically melt away.

Maggie - hope plans work out for you - no snow and H goes to work.

My H is at GPs right now asking for more time off work. We had a scheduling conflict with his counselling appointment for next week and he shouted at me "YOU'RE the one that wanted me to go! I'll just cancel it shall I?" and wouldn't answer me when I said "you're supposed to be going to counselling because YOU want to get better." Okay. That was a clarifier.