Support thread for those in Emotionally abusive relationships :15

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

I don't know WTF I was thinking then, but I sure as f* knowe what I think now!

I am posting from work because yesterday H went crazy and broke my laptop. He started yelling and threw it on the floor - the screen is fucked, the hinge is broken and the keyboard is a bit loose. The DC were scared so we went out and stayed out all afternoon. We had to go back at night though. We will have to go back tonight as well, still no decision from the landlord about new house.

They didn't want H to take them to school this morning like he usually does on Mondays so I took them, he blamed me saying it was my fault. But it isn't, they are scared of him and that's why they don't want to be with him.

Ladies... I too could fill many pages with driving stories, isn't it funny how many angry men are 'expert' drivers? I've had the leaning-over-to-beep thing before, when someone cut in front or some such 'outrageous' behaviour that hadn't bothered me in the slightest.

Sorry this is a bit me-me-me but I don't want to forget it and driving related as well... yesterday we were away (confession here we did go to the riverside house, more story there but I won't go into it all now, DD wanted to go as we'd arranged to meet friends for a special celebration on Sunday which was great but afterwards had to drive back to London, about an hour away).

Anyway, coming out of the car park at speed (as he was keen to get onto the motorway before the snow got worse) he asked me to set up the satnav. I always have trouble reaching forward to get it onto the windscreen when I have my seatbelt on so I wasn't doing it fast enough-- he took it (grabbed it) out of my hand and stuck it on the window in front of him (all done v quickly) then after driving for about 5 minutes he asked (shouted) why had I stuck it right in front of him as it was in his view... I told him that he'd done it himself and he insisted that he would never stick it there in such a stupid place and that I must have done it... DD and I looked at each other, open mouthed.

Luckily the trip home was fairly uneventful and we got back fine.

If I was going to 'explain' his behaviour I'd say, and it would be true, that he was angry because he was stressed about driving in the bad weather. That is SOOO not an excuse! But so obvious that I am the root of all problems in his mind.

I need to get this sorted out but once again am finding myself thinking I need to keep things calm for DD-- and in my situation, things actually could be worse. It would be so fantastic if he just decided that as I'm not good enough (as he keeps telling me) he left... unfortunately it doesn't look like that is going to happen and it will have to be me who instigates it and he is going to be shocked and surprised and NOT happy.

Leclerc, did he actually say that? Horrific! I remember reading that Paul McCartney had said something similar to Heather Mills, but no-one believed her that he did. I wonder what the truth is.
I was also intimidated (and minorly assaulted) while breastfeeding. He knew I couldn't move to get away from him, so he'd shout and yell at me - eg, because I'd dared to speak to my health visitor when I moved back to Scotland with DS1 because I was new to the area, and she visited me several times, so I was wasting valuable NHS time and resources, people like me mad him sick apparently. I know who the sick one was, and it wurnt me buster
Sometimes he'd kneel in front of the chair I was breastfeeding in and lean right in to my face, sometimes poking me hard on the arm while he did it. Yet he waxed lyrical about how amazing I was for breastfeeding, how his ex-wife wouldn't even try it, what a great start I was giving DS2. Yet he still threatened, when DS2 was a few weeks old and FW was drunk to take him away from me and start FF because I was 'controlling' DS2 through breastfeeding.

I'm feeling pretty angry about him today. I've been thinking about a lot of minor small ways he controlled me and undermined me. Like every time I went out anywhere (down town, to the supermarket, what a life, eh?), he'd say 'bring me something back'. Sounds daft, doesn't it, but I knew if I didn't I'd be risking him getting annoyed, saying I didn't care, didn't put enough effort in, and it all kicking off. It really didn't have to be much, a tin of grapefruit chunks, ffs, but I think it was about him making sure I was thinking about him while I was out. I told him time and time again that I felt pressured by him saying it, please could he stop. He didn't. He said he was only joking, but I knew if I didn't get something then he'd be upset use it as an excuse to have a go.

I know this isn't in any way in the same league as your awful experience Leclerc, almost feel a bit embarrassed talking about it in the same way, but I know that it's all part of the same thing - and that my FW would probably be capable of doing what yours did, given time.

Nora, and thatsnot

Nora, fingers crossed for the house. I think you need to get out of there as soon as possible, for the kids and yourself. Do you think he sees you detaching and realises you are getting support online, and wants to stop you getting it?
Thatsnot - keep things calm, but don't let that lull you into forgetting what has happened. Your mind protects itself I think, and when it can't deal with what happened before, it latches on when it sees things being the way you want it to be - ie calm and nice. But it's you that's creating that, not him, by being unnaturally calming. Have you got a plan for getting out (because don't leave it to him, they are v unreliable, these FWs!).

Oh, but, Leclerc, I would not even be here, but curled up in a shivering heap on the floor, if it weren't for Fool , Silver hissy and Lemon

Pony your story is awful :(
Think about Lundy's story - so 'small' a thing, yet he says he got fully involved with abuse when a woman was shot by her partner.
These things only seem 'small' to us because we have been manipulated into thinking that they are 'normal', and also because the 'normal' world really does not understand.
I have mentioned on this thread before (I repeat myself with increasing frequency as I get older) the occasion last year when Mariella Frostrup, the 'agony aunt' on 'The Guardian' Life and Style pages, replied to a letter from a young woman who was in, what was clearly, a horribly abusive relationship by telling her to 'work on the relationship' ... unless he hit her ... in which case she should leave
Silver pointed out to me that MN was on the case PDQ :)
Let's hear it for MN!

Hi I keep trying to post from phone but it's not happening! Awful stories today keep strong ladies and maggie hope the bloody snow melts around you!

I also recall reading something about heather and Paul Max's relationship that made me v uneasy.

I've been at the court all day, have temp emergency residency and court prohibition order which makes me feel safer- ie he can't take kids out of country.

Fly, you are living, breathing proof of the song I posted earlier. :)

Wow, Fly, you are one strong lady!

Maggie, do hope your week turns out better than you're expecting.

I have a driving story I haven't shared with anyone, too. 14 months ago, we had a holiday coming up, but we'd just had an unexpected international house move and were nowhere near the place we were due to fly in and not in the mood for a holiday in the slightest. I protested and protested, but clearly it was his decision, not ours and he was determined to go so as not to waste the money. I knew he'd take the dcs, so I felt trapped into going too. The whole holiday (and it was long), I felt like I was just trying to get through one hour at a time, except for one morning when he took the dcs to breakfast and I had a lovely relaxed hour on a balcony overlooking lush greenery, reading. Two hours later, we crashed in our hire car when the brakes failed. My side of the car was damaged very badly, so the 2 dcs and I had serious injuries, while the other 2 and FW had only minor injuries. Now, I have talked about all that before, but the thought which keeps coming back to me now is: FW has apologised repeatedly for the accident and the breakages I sustained. But why? It was a brake failure, which is not the driver's fault. Now that I know more clearly how he thinks of me though, I just wonder if, somewhere in his immediate calculations mid-incident, he decided (sub-consciously or otherwise) to put me in more danger in order to save himself?

Charlotte your story is terrifying :(
But I wanted to say that it is never a good idea to try to work out what is in FWs' FWitted, fucked up brains.
That way madness lies. It is hard enough to find ourselves, forget their warped thinking.

Sad sad stories today ladies, makes me even more because I identify and have experienced every single one too. Must be taken from their FW handbook hey. From smashing up my stuff, to the guilt of breastfeeding DD as they were 'his' boobies not hers (not being allowed to bf DS) to the same thing as you Pony when I used to be "allowed" to do the family supermarket visit, I always had to get a surprise for him if I didn't he would sulk for fecking days. Pathetic much.

Driving stories made me very and just shows what we have all had to put up with, the fear, them knowing exactly what they are doing to scare us. When having IVF treatment we would have to get to the clinic which was 30miles away for 7am on most mornings to have scans etc at the crucial stage, any normal person would have kept this a calm time especially considering the horrendous treatment I was going through-HIM? NO! It would range from shouting at me the whole way if I was a few mins late leaving the house to punching steering wheel to driving up to 100mph whilst throwing my stuff out of the window or pulling my hair/punching me. I sometimes felt like throwing myself out of the car, he had me in a trap where he made me believe no one other man would have me as I couldn't give them babies naturally and he was basically pitying me and doing me a massive favour whilch I have to be forever grateful for.

Just remembered another incident too, happened just after we moved to his hometown, he had left his car parked somewhere overnight after being at a random house party (I wasn't invited as usual) anyway the next eve I had to give him a lift to collect his car so he could get to work the next day, long story short, the mix of me not knowing the area and him not giving proper directions resulting in me taking a wrong turn and him punching the windscreenn so hard that it smashed/cracked. He made me continue driving (covered in glass) to his car where he then got out, got in his car and drove off at speed, leaving me in the dark in the middle of no where. I ended up driving home with my windscreen and bits of glass sticking out of my arms. When I got in he was just sitting there with a cup of tea like nothing had happened I should have gone then, just uped and left as didn't have DC then, but he had such a hold over me sad for all. The years of shit all of us have put up with

In other news....this week is a total disaster now..the feckers have canx his course away because of the snow so we are stuck with him for the week now and next escape step on hold. He keeps asking me if I'm ok as I'm 'so quiet' yet if I say something I just get shut down. Going to be a long week.....

charlotte - all the more reason to get yourself out of there.

Maggie, ur FW does the 'surprise me' thing too? Wow. I still find it amazing that so many of these awful, awful men are doing the same things to their partners. I guess it's proof, as if any were needed, that they all manipulate and control so it makes sense they would arrive at a lot of the same tactics.

Maggie, your driving stories are just awful. Awful. Pulling your hair and punching you while he was driving? The man is a dangerous, dangerous individual. You know, I was thinking the other day, that I know you don't want to go down the road of staying in that house or involving various agencies, but if you do you might have more control and say over how and when he sees the kids, thereby protecting them a little more from him? But I know it's not as easy as a straight answer. It's just that I now regret so much not calling the police in September. But I know I just couldn't at the time, even though I knew I should. Sending you hugs and am thinking about you all. So so sorry his course has been cancelled, I know him being away was a step towards leaving for you. Please stay safe.

I just had a conversation with my solicitor. It's both good and bad. Basically, FW has me over a barrel because he's magnanimously, not letting me have my original deposit back. So she wants us to negotiate re the mortgage payments he's looking for from me, using a list of all the things I paid for in the course of our relationship that he hasn't paid me back for (which is more than double the amount he's looking for). I was getting quite shaky and upset on the phone with her, trying to explain that I just was very upset that he's asking for that money and don't want to pay it out of principle apart from any other reason. I have been feeling shaky and anxious since then, had to really force myself to eat lunch (v unusual for me! normally I'm forcing myself to stop at having just one lunch...).

Anyway.

FW's also told me the boiler will cost £300 to repair, asked how I'm going to pay him my £150. Cheeky fecker. I am ignoring for now.

the abuse is sickening and the recklessness with which precious lives have been treated.

very worried for you Maggie I just can't believe the pressure/danger you are in right now. sorry I know that doesn't help you any, you are an amazing lady who is keeping going so well through all this. Can't you 'just go', like you talked about after the w/screen incident? He has proven himself to be extremely dangerous to you and your babies.

whooping and more whooping for you Fly !!!

The b/feeding thing

Agree arth good idea to stay out of others' minds, especially FWs! Bad enough rifling through my own!

Just come out of a mammoth 4 hour mediation session. As usual I cried most of the way through. Then FW ended up breaking down and crying too. I found myself putting my arms around and comforting him... Am I mad?

Feeling brain dead...relieved that its all over...but incredibly sad too

Fw going to his solicitor tomorrow to get the consent order drafted.
He just said as I was collecting the dc that I might as well throw the wedding photos in the bin. For some reason I can't explain it has made me feel anxious and now I'm being short and irritable with the dc. This is the effect he always had on me when I was living with him.
Why can't I just feel pleased? After all, he's doing what I want.
But then he started banging on saying if the solicitor starts talking about needing to go to court he wasn't having it. Trying to maintain control I suppose.
I need to snap out of this mood.

Maggie won't you get the deal that fly has just secured? temp emergency residency. I don't say this because I think its in anyway easy, I know its not. I understand your reasons for the planning.

I wish sometimes that there would be a top secret abuse serveillance swot team that would gather evidence (undetectably of course), and then go in force to safely temporarily remove family, and come back to remove the *stards permanently!!!

You need to feel & be safe like Fly - gutted for you about the snow.

y to the cheeky fecker Pony try to get focussed back onto the practical. Why is he being magnanimous in allowing you to have deposit back, it yours, he's having his, he's not giving anything away. Might be worth seeing if you could get a free appt for first advice from another solicitor to compare situation. I know that changing sol completely changed the outcome for a friend whose exFW beat her up in a car park, after having a polite drink to discuss matters in the pub, but drugged her drink, beat her up in the car park on the way out and dragged her into car got her back and raped her. She hasn't pursued court, although police had all the evidence at the time. He was going to fleece her over her property (with the far higher stake in, as yours), and many solicitors said he would win. She got free advice and I went with her, as she was so lost for words to put her case, they took it on and beat him hands down. Try to stick to sorting it out, to get you back on track, its better than the emotional! take care xx

matchsticks it is a learned response - a learned physical response - and no surprise that your body has learned and remembered it.

I had to take mine to court as he wasn't co-operative. He had no choice but to respond then, but the FW wouldn't engage a sol and represented himself. His way of maintaining control more fool him.

thats a marathon bertie not surprised you feeling brain dead! Yes, huge relief... but very sad at the same time. I'm glad its over for you.

Close your ears to him matchsticks he's just poison, he's had his time, now its yours, very conflicting though [confusing]

Welcome harry! And strength to all.

FW and driving - twas different with us. I learnt to drive at 17, and was THE driver till FW and I were in early 40's. I had DS at 36 and DD at 39. I used to get up each am, load DS in car, drive 40 min there and back to take FW to work, and same again in the eve. Thank goodness by time DD came along he was getting lift from a colleague!

TBH this suited in a way because we couldn't afford 2nd car so I had the use of it, and we couldn't afford lessons (was SAHM this was normal in the olden days )

When I was first admitted to psych hosp in 1993 FW had to get others to transport him to visit. Shortly after I came out he lost his job. DMIL kindly paid for him to have driving lessons.

Then he did record fairs at weekends, taking car and leaving me stuck at home with the kids. When we finally afforded another car (not from him working, from some capital that came my way), and I had backed into another car in mine , FW refused to put me on his insurance, although he remained on mine. Maybe that was reasonable, didn't seem like it at the time...

So nothing terrifying and crazy but the usually Doing Nothing from him causing considerable wear and tear on me.