My married lover has added another relationship into the mix and I am jealous

[FreckledLeopard]

So, figure the title should get your attention...Apologies for length.

Essentially, I find myself in a situation that is making me miserable, but seems to be a situation that I have repeated all my adult life in terms of who I fall in love with.

Background is somewhat complicated so bear with me. Met STBXH four years ago. Moved in with him, DD, his son to a new area. Met a couple and their DD (same age as my DD) living nearby. We all became friends, spent a lot of time together etc.

Discovered that other couple were into swinging - I was always attracted to the husband and my 'D'P was curious and attracted to the wife. So, not surprisingly, we started 'playing' with them, for want of a better word, from time to time. All very amicable and open.

Anyway, I married 'D'P - big mistake, but nothing to do with other man, just a number of other issues that all came to ahead at wedding (at which other couple attended).

The attraction between my and other man was always stronger than between DH and the wife. Often it would be just me, my DH and the other man together, though, frankly, I always wished it would be just me and other man.

Split up with DH at beginning of the year - continued to see other man and his wife. The wife was away over summer for a few months, so saw other man almost daily - went out, went for dinner, stayed over at each other's houses (children were not aware of situation). His wife was aware and happy with the arrangement (she had a number of lovers when away, though her affairs are essentially sexual and one-offs, rather than actual relationships IYSWIM).

So, things ticking over ok. I've never been jealous of his wife - she and I are friends, I wouldn't want a monogomous relationship with the other man and am happy being 'single' yet having him as a lover (also, have moved out of area, so see them less frequently).

Anyway, went there for the weekend....had heard him mention another woman a few times, but found out from his wife (my friend) that he has a huge crush on this other woman, is having a relationship with her and has told the children about polyamory and the fact that the other woman is his lover (his DD is 11).

I am so hurt and jealous. The other woman is a good twenty years older than me (he is closer to 30 years older than me). I know I have absolutely no basis for legitimately feeling as I do. After all, if I am his lover, as well as his wife, what's to stop him (or me) from having as many lovers as he wishes? I have no claim to him. But, but....it hurts so badly. I don't want him to be with the other woman. I am jealous that suddenly she is the centre of his attention. I am upset that he has told his DD about his relationship with her, but not me (though that would open a can of worms anyhow).

I've told him how I feel - he is encouraging me to get a lover where I am now living. Problem is, I don't want another lover - I want him. It's the same situation as all previous men I've fallen in love with - all unattainable. Either married, don't believe in monogomy or don't want relationships. All are charming and all have caused endless pain.

I know there's no 'magical cure' - I should distance myself from him and not open myself to being hurt. But I love him. I'm moping around miserably, dreaming about the other woman and just want him to get rid of her.

Not sure how his wife feels about this - I may see if she has misgivings or is truly ok with it all. It's like some Mormon polygamous drama or something. Freud would have a field day....

God you all sound just vile.

Therapy - the Hoffman process. Intensive therapy, did wonders for DH, whose mum walked out of family home at 10 and dad that hit him. Allowed him to move on with his life and connect with the child he was and the future. Probably saved our marriage. Expensive but worth every penny.

Oh dear, it sounds like a total mess.

His wife is fine with the fact that her DH spends time with you, tells you he loves you, gives you security, holds you in his arms? I so wouldn't be fine if my DH had that kind of relationship with another woman. But then, I wouldn't be fine with my DH sleeping with anyone except me.

I do feel for his poor wife - yes she swings, but as you say he has all the power in this set-up and I suspect that's what open relationships really mean: the DH sleeping around and pursuing any woman he feels like with the DW 'accepting it' and holding the family together.

I wouldn't be so complacent about your DD being oblivious to it all, btw.

Lots of women do like swinging and open relationships. It's a sexist myth that swinging is always about some poor pitiful woman putting up with it to stop her hubby leaving her - too many people still want to believe that women value 'love', not sex, because the idea of women rejecting monogamy is too scary. It means they might not agree to do a man's housework if they aren't frantic to keep one man happy.

I don't mean to be blaise but seriously he is how old? 57? and you are 30 - honey in just 10 years time he will look like your grandfather. He may satisfy you downstairs etc but in just a decade you will be worlds apart. And you want children too, a family unit and the parents are swinging ... oh well each to their own I guess. Look I used to date a guy almost 20 years older than me and I wanted to have a serious relationship with him but he was cautious and said no and subsequently married another woman. And all I can say is THANK GOD I didnt make the biggest mistake of my life. I appreciate you are saying you dont want a relationship with him, just have sex with him ... but come on who are you kidding ... and how could anything positive come out of a relationship with a man like this and with you, as a woman who is somewhat obsessed by him. You sound like someone who either needs someone to obsess about or have someone who obsseses about you. Either way you are looking in the wrong direction and put frankly you alone are hurting yourself. Without wanting to be rude, at 30 years of age you are still very young and perhaps have a lot more experiences of life to be had. Please for your own sake give up on this fantasy with this man. He sounds like an absolute shit. And you my dear are worth so so much more.

Does sound like the strength of his feelings for this 3rd woman is the biggest problem for you, as you said, "just sex" wouldn't be a problem - it could be his wife isnt happy either because she knows it's "just sex between friends" with you, (even if you are in love with him) but he has fallen so hard for this new woman there's a fear he could decide to make that relationship his primary one.

Accepting your DH lives with you but a couple of times a week or so shags someone else and you do the same is nothing like facing that your DH might decide he'd rather live in the same house as one of his lovers and do 'domesticity' with her making you sidelined, or even ask you to move her into your home and expect you to share space, not just sex.

I can completely see why you are hung up on her age, if she was young then you could see it was a physical attraction only, and still see it in terms of just sex, but her age suggests this is more about her as a person, he wants to be with her, not just sleep with her now and then. And he never wanted that with you.

He gave you the impression the most he could offer someone who wasn't his wife was the occasional shag, you love him and accepted this limit to his availability, but by wanting to give more (time, headspace, recognition) to the 3rd woman, he's showing it was always an option for you, he just didn't want to do that to you.

Stepping away from him sounds for the best, he can't give you the relationship you want anymore - because it's not just you going into their marriage, but another relationship that you are not involved with.

It doesn't mean you have to be monogamous because this relationship didn't work out, but you need to work out what sort of limits you want, perhaps be more defined about what you want, and you need to grieve for the end of this relationship before you move on to the next.

oh and if you want more DCs, it does'nt matter if he looks 45, he's not. Even if he got you pregnant this weekend, by the time your DC was at school, your lover would probably have retired. He will be elderly (or dead) by the time your DC graduate. I have a friend facing these issues having married a much older man who didn't look it, because he came across as so much younger than he is, the fact that he'd be retiring before their DS got to school age hadn't hit her until recently.

His wife might well have signed up for him sleeping with other partners, but to parent with someone else and therefore have to use their joint retirement fund to pay for childsupport for another woman's DC is probably not on her acceptable list. Any money he had to hand over to you for your DC would be taking away from his own family unit (who are quite young, he's probably looking at having DCs at uni while he's retired already). I can imagine his wife would swiftly stop being your friend under those circumstances.

Dontmindifido - you have summed up my feelings and the situation perfectly! do you know me or them

I know he's too old to father my children but to me he is very special and I just would love to have his child. All hell would break loose and any friendship with his wife would go to hell in a handcart if I had his child as that would of course but their daughter in an unenviable situation. Anyhow - I'm using contraception and am not pregnant so it's just wishful thinking on my part.

Anyhow - they remain blocked on Facebook and no contact has been made. I will drop their Christmas presents off at weekend - literally drop them and leave - and consider the various books and therapies suggested here.

The Hoffman course looks amazing but unless I sell all my worldly possessions I'm not sure how I'd pay for it.

Drop their presents off? What's all that about? That is not cutting contact. Get your money back! Spend it on those books...

Seriously do not give them Christmas presents!

Don't you go giving them christmas presents! Spend the money on yourself, you've been saying you can't afford therapy. Please sort out your priorities.

i see you wasting the next 5 years on this guy until you meet someone else who gives you a similar buzz only you can make the decision to get on with your life youve had some spot on advice here good luck

and another thing, writing off a woman just because shes of a certain age. you are only 30 so you may not even know about that certain je ne sais quoi which has absolutely nothing to do with physical appearance - Im not 40 yet but I know I will be damn sexy when im 50!!! forget about men putting women down they dont need to when the women are doing a pretty good job at it

there's something else you've not explored. You ended your marriage to a man you didn't want to be with, but you had already started this relationship with this man (and in a way his wife). You didn't have any break between ending that relationship and starting the next. You might well have never fully got over your marriage and dealt with the emotions from that because although you ended that relationship, it was already being wrapped up with these people.

End this relationship completely (I can see why you would want to drop off the gifts you've already bought, but drop them, don't ring the bell etc), then spend some time alone, don't go straight for a new relationship, although it will be tempting.

You mentioned in your first post that you have a daughter. How old is she? Where does she figure in this mess?
As a parent you need to remember that this isn't all about you, but about your daughter as well.

From my experience when other children know that a classmate's parent(s) live an unconventional lifestyle fingers get pointed and gossip abounds. How must this make your daughter feel?

So I would say stop being so selfish and think about other people and how your lifestyle affects them.

Why Christmas presents? That's saying one thing ('I'm cutting contact') and doing another. Mixed messages.

I agree with chucksaway too. Just because a woman is older than you doesn't mean she can't be sexier or more attractive in any way than you, so the new woman's age is an irrelevance.

I would say also that you don't need to spend a fortune on a particular type of therapy (Hoffman). You just need some time with a solid, experienced therapist to unravel your thoughts, attitudes and behaviours, alongside thinking about what you are really about.

FWIW I think the other couple sound immensely screwed up. Not because they are swingers, that is their personal choice, but because the wife is clearly not happy with the current status quo with her husbands new woman, but is going along with it for some reason. That is not a healthy and respectful relationship. Makes you wonder how much else she has gone along with over the years to keep the peace.

'I know he's too old to father my children but to me he is very special and I just would love to have his child.' - but when you emailed him to tell him you were upset he shrugged and said 'find another Lover' didn't he? So he doesn't see you as special does he? You are his fuck buddy who he sweet talks to. to get sex.

And don't kid yourself everyone involved in Swinging is really into it. A lot of people go along with it to please their partners and a lot of unhappy women find themselves caught up in it. I'm thinking of a friend here - interestingly now she is in a relationship that's happy she would never get in a situation like this again. It all got a bit messy for her too and certainly didn't help her in the long run.

Give the presents away!

Christmas presents because I already bought them weeks ago! Though I suppose I could recycle them for someone else.

I'm sorry for making generalisations about older women - I know they can be sexy, attractive. It's just from what I've heard about her, she's lacking in confidence, doesn't feel sexy and has very little sexual experience, which is the polar oppositve of his wife and the types he has gone for in the past. Oh well, irelevant I guess.

Anyway, still no contact.

My daughter is 11, nearly 12. She doesn't really figure in this mess now that we've moved to the new city. Before that, she would hang out with their DD (same age) and see a lot of each other as firstly they lived down the street and secondly, they went to a number of extra-curricular activities together. DD knows that other man is very tactile, hugs people, holds hands with others - he's like this with everyone, though - any of his friends, male and female. DD did ask over the summer if we were having an affair - I denied this and she hasn't said anything further. I've always maintained the line that we're friends and that's that. Now we're two hours away anyway, so issue shouldn't come up again, especially as I'm cutting contact and she's not especially wild about their DD (doesn't especially like her, so won't badger me to organise for her to come and stay or anything like that).

Overall, though, in relation to DD, she's not had a 'conventional' upbringing, given that firstly I had her at 19, secondly her biological father has never met her and had nothing to do with us since I got pregnant (nor has ever paid a penny to support his child), thirdly, she's come with me to university, travelling, backpacking, socialising - she's grown up around my friends and family and I've always treated her with honesty (other than this situation) and given her the information I think she should have, rather than maintaining a strict adult-child divide. She's pretty well rounded (whether down to luck or judgment I don't know) - does well at school, lots of friends, outgoing, confident. She would like a 'conventional family' life but frankly, that's not going to happen anytime soon, and given her age, it's not like I can just summon up a father figure for her that she'd accept.

It sounds like you have done a good job with your daughter. That is the kind of "unconventional" background that I would want to give a child. I was worried about the how mess you call your love life might affect her.

Those of you suggesting that people should stick to heteromonogamy so their DC aren't teased at school: do you realise what apologists and victim-blamers you sound? Children get picked on for being 'different' in a variety of ways, and the answer is to address the bullying, not tell victims of bullying to modify their lifestyle/appearance/etc. It's no longer acceptable to pick on the one [member of different ethnic group] or the one [child of a single/gay parent] or the one [child who uses a wheelchair]. Far more helpful for children and teens to understand that there are all sorts of different ways to live and that dumb conformity is not a good thing at all.

Give the Christmas presents to someone else. Or enjoy them yourself. Or put them in the bin.

Just don't give them to them. It's no longer appropriate, you need NO CONTACT like any other breakup.

SolidGoldFrankensteinandmurgh You are right of course, but it won't stop other parents gossiping. That is what the real world is like whether we agree with it or not. Some people call it damage limitation.

It's just from what I've heard about her, she's lacking in confidence, doesn't feel sexy and has very little sexual experience.

If this is true about his new woman, it doesn't paint a great picture of him really, does it? An unlikely persona to bring into his life, unless of course there is something about her lack of experience and lack of confidence that appeals to him? I wonder what his long terms intentions are with this woman. Will he bring her into the marital home? Will he leave his wife for her? Will she have to accept his swinging lifestyle, even though she appears to be very inexperienced sexually? I think I feel quite sorry for her actually. Where did you hear this about her?

I hope this new woman finds mumsnet

OP how on earth would you know this information about her? it all sounds very playground