My married lover has added another relationship into the mix and I am jealous

[FreckledLeopard]

So, figure the title should get your attention...Apologies for length.

Essentially, I find myself in a situation that is making me miserable, but seems to be a situation that I have repeated all my adult life in terms of who I fall in love with.

Background is somewhat complicated so bear with me. Met STBXH four years ago. Moved in with him, DD, his son to a new area. Met a couple and their DD (same age as my DD) living nearby. We all became friends, spent a lot of time together etc.

Discovered that other couple were into swinging - I was always attracted to the husband and my 'D'P was curious and attracted to the wife. So, not surprisingly, we started 'playing' with them, for want of a better word, from time to time. All very amicable and open.

Anyway, I married 'D'P - big mistake, but nothing to do with other man, just a number of other issues that all came to ahead at wedding (at which other couple attended).

The attraction between my and other man was always stronger than between DH and the wife. Often it would be just me, my DH and the other man together, though, frankly, I always wished it would be just me and other man.

Split up with DH at beginning of the year - continued to see other man and his wife. The wife was away over summer for a few months, so saw other man almost daily - went out, went for dinner, stayed over at each other's houses (children were not aware of situation). His wife was aware and happy with the arrangement (she had a number of lovers when away, though her affairs are essentially sexual and one-offs, rather than actual relationships IYSWIM).

So, things ticking over ok. I've never been jealous of his wife - she and I are friends, I wouldn't want a monogomous relationship with the other man and am happy being 'single' yet having him as a lover (also, have moved out of area, so see them less frequently).

Anyway, went there for the weekend....had heard him mention another woman a few times, but found out from his wife (my friend) that he has a huge crush on this other woman, is having a relationship with her and has told the children about polyamory and the fact that the other woman is his lover (his DD is 11).

I am so hurt and jealous. The other woman is a good twenty years older than me (he is closer to 30 years older than me). I know I have absolutely no basis for legitimately feeling as I do. After all, if I am his lover, as well as his wife, what's to stop him (or me) from having as many lovers as he wishes? I have no claim to him. But, but....it hurts so badly. I don't want him to be with the other woman. I am jealous that suddenly she is the centre of his attention. I am upset that he has told his DD about his relationship with her, but not me (though that would open a can of worms anyhow).

I've told him how I feel - he is encouraging me to get a lover where I am now living. Problem is, I don't want another lover - I want him. It's the same situation as all previous men I've fallen in love with - all unattainable. Either married, don't believe in monogomy or don't want relationships. All are charming and all have caused endless pain.

I know there's no 'magical cure' - I should distance myself from him and not open myself to being hurt. But I love him. I'm moping around miserably, dreaming about the other woman and just want him to get rid of her.

Not sure how his wife feels about this - I may see if she has misgivings or is truly ok with it all. It's like some Mormon polygamous drama or something. Freud would have a field day....

"I have absolutely no issue with him having sex with as many men or women as he wants to."

I don't believe this for one second. I really don't see how you can be 'in love' with someone and want to have a child with them and not mind if they are swinging it with Arthur and Martha as much as they like.

Your fantasy of being swept off your feet is the kind of thing teenagers dream of. But you have got yourself involved with a frazzled old 57 year old swinger who isn't ever going to be anyone's handsome prince. What were you thinking?

You have mistaken being used sexually by this man and him seeking your company with his becoming emotionally involved with you. Sure he spent time in your company doing things other than just having sex - when his wife was away.

But he's not emotionally involved with you, and probably isn't 'emotionally involved' with his new lover either. It's just the thrill of the new. You have lost your lustre, he's moved on. He will move on again.

He and his wife sound like they can cope with their lifestyle - they're a team, aren't they? - but you can't cope. His wife wouldn't be friends with you if she saw you as any kind of threat. Don't kid yourself this is more than it is.

Sort your own issues out and stop expecting someone to rescue you. This sounds like the last man on the planet to be anyone's rescuer anyway. Take a hard look at yourself and try to work out your own emotional needs and why on earth you chose someone completely and utterly unable to fulfill them.

jane, you bet me to it.

OP, you really need to grow up. As in: become a mature, responsible adult who looks after her own emotional/psychological/physical needs. And does not need anybody to come a 'rescue' her. Good grief!

I have no idea what the right kind of therapy is for you, but you need it, and probably lots of it. Or a long hard look at the mirror...

beat, sorry

And what tiredofwaiting said.

for some reason you feel 'safe' in your 'relationship' with him, with only his wife as your opponent. You know her, she's been with your dh.

You have confused swinging with getting close to this man emotionally. He is not emotionally close to you in the same way op.

You do care hugely about him 'meeting' other women. He may or may not be emotionally attached to this woman, or others he will meet from now on, but YOU cannot handle it.

What is the point OP? You are in love with him, you want his child? PLease don't, it would be so so unfair on the child, and him and you.

Have a look around you op, at some of the huge, real, terrible things going on in the world. Why make your life such hard work????

you deserve more!!!!

Apologies if posts bore you Jane. Not sure there's much I can do about that - please feel free to find and comment on some more interesting posts .

I posted because there's no-one I can talk to about this in real life - I've emailed a couple of friends but don't want to call and whinge to them. So am using mumsnet to vent and as a sounding board.

It's easy to give advice but far harder to take it...Given geographical distance now between me and them, it should be easier to try and move forwards. I know I'm on a hiding to nothing in this situation and that it's making me unhappy. Problem is, this is my default situation - angst and screwed up relationships. I have made some significant progress over past 5 years in terms of moving away from utterly self destructive behaviour. But how to move forwards to achieve happiness/balance continues to elude me.

Rescue fantasies - of course no one can fix me. Doesn't stop me yearning that they could though, and finding anyone that taps into how I feel from time to time intoxicating.

Abitwobbly - thank you for suggestion. Will look into it. Is this something you've experience of?

Freudian. I would recommend getting in touch with these people:

www.cfar.org.uk/clinic.htm

(Sliding scale, can refer to therapists all over Britain, and are quite sensible folk, in my experience).

Hi Freckled

I doubt my reply will tell you much you don't know already. But sometimes it helps to hear things from outside and from someone who's been through similar things. I think most of the advice you've been given already is spot on.

From your posts, it sounds like above all, you crave attention, and recognition of being special and different - even from anonymous people on this website. Over and over again you talk about your 'crazy life', not being 'normal', etc. And some respnses are feeding that self-image by saying how 'exotic' it all seems. But to be honest, everyone's life is different when you go behind closed doors, and while there are some posts I read on here which genuinely shock me,this isn't one of them.

I've had some experience of 'polyamorous' type relationships, as have many people I expect. In and of itself, non-monogamy is not particularly unusual. And neither is feeling jealous of new relationships even if your own relationship is in some sense 'additional'.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with having sex or relationships with multiple people (simultaneously or not) if that's what floats your boat and if everyone is honest with each other. But it seems like what you want is not what truly polyamorous people want (if they truly exist!), but rather what women tend to want when they fall for married men, which is to have themselves validated by being desired by another woman's partner. There is nothing special about married men that makes you fall in love with them, instead it's that their desire for you is somehow worth more because they're betraying or simply preferring you to someone else.

I have to tell you that if you can find someone who will commit to you, and vice versa, in a boring, normal, vanilla, monogamous way, you'll find far more validation and genuine connection there than you ever will in these tangled webs where everyone's after something different from someone else, something they'll never get.

Didn't know swinging existed in real.

OP is 30, Herr Swing is 57..........My dear, you have an Electra Complex.

That'll be three hundred and seventy five guineas, please.

Next !

Sounds to me like the first major problem is a lack of communication; not only is he involved with another person, but he didn't tell you about the nature of that relationship directly, so it's come as, at the very least, a surprise, if not something that looks like the truth being concealed.

So, I'd say think about the following:

• see if you can unpick your jealousy a bit. It would be useful to arrange to meet the other woman - real life versions of people are usually much less scary than the imaginary versions we create in our own minds.

• what are your agreements about talking about new people? what agreements do you have around discussing major changes in the nature of a relationship (ie. something casual becomes something more serious?)? Do you need to renegotiate these, to agree explicitly that new partners will be discussed/you'll keep each other informed about how your other relationships are going?

• what do you need from that relationship for it to be worthwhile continuing in terms of contact with him? I'm thinking about what you're saying about her being the centre of his attention. That's classic New Relationship Energy - which means that people with new lovers quite often focus a lot on the new person and fail to put enough effort into maintaining their existing relationships temporarily, until the new relationship becomes more established. How is his focus on her impacting on you? Do you need more time with him/phone calls/emails/other attention? If so, you can negotiate this, without it being about her. You are allowed to have relationship dealbreakers.

• sounds like you need to re-negotiate your levels of openness with family and friends, if his daughter knows about her and not about you. That sounds disrespectful towards your relationship to me, particularly given that it wasn't discussed with you first [there might well be good reasons to not tell children about people they're not likely to meet, but that sort of thing needs talking about, otherwise you end up in your situation where for seemingly no reason the daughter knows about one partner but not another].

• saying the obvious here; you are allowed to feel what you feel. I'm reading a lot of what you're saying as a rational response to what's happening - your partner has acquired another partner, who someone else told you about, who you've not met. It's not clear what the nature of that relationship is, although it sounds 'serious' given that his daughter already knows about that woman and not about you.

• it's pretty typical to feel insecure/jealous/envious etc when a partner acquires another partner, not a sign that poly isn't right for you. The feelings are often signals about things that need talking about. Even when things are intellectually things you're OK with, sometimes emotionally they're a bit worrying.

Do have a look around online for some specific poly resources - there are lots about and most contain good transferable skills for mono relationships too.

Eccentrica - think there are some valid points in what you're saying. Certainly need for validation is massive for me; academically, career, relationships.

In terms of attention seeking - yes and no. I think owing to a variety of events in my life I'm set on a path that's different to a lot of people. Hence I move more and more away from the norm whilst seeking normality but never achieving it.

Analysis aside though, I just wish he loved me like I love him.

Even if you practice monogamy the other person could fall in love at any time with another. I do think swinging is not for you though; or at least take some time out and get councelling as to why you need so much love drama in your life. It must hurt though op.

FL, you suck at swinging, dude.

Well, what a surprise: among the helpful advice there's the usual chunks of ignorant spiteful nonsense from mundanes: some people really can't cope with the idea that monogamy is not compulsory and nor is it 'better' than any other way of living (whether a person's preferences run to group sex, closed polyamory or celibacy).

OP, your problems are not down to the fact that you have been living without monogamy. Monogamists have troubles too, and the problem that can happen to anyone, really, is wanting more from a particular person than s/he is able to offer. Unfortunately, you want more than anyone can offer, which is for another person to 'fix' you. Can't be done. You can only fix yourself. It's probably a good idea to call a halt to sexual/romantic relationships for the moment and concentrate on having friends, taking up a hobby of some sort, perhaps learning a skill (playing an instrument or a sport, painting, photography, poetry? Whatever interests you) and giving yourself something to think about other than a relationship that's run its course.

Oh, and just in passing, to other posters: teaching children that people have all kinds of different relationships is not bad, or harmful. My DS knows that some people are married and some are not, some are straight and some are gay, and that it's important to be kind to others and value difference. It's not necessary to go into explicit detail with DC but letting them know that some people are friends and some are 'special' friends is no bad thing.

SolidGold, salutations, you have just taken the meaning of 'patronising' to new heights.

Actually I'm fine swinging if it's just sex. No qualms about that. It's the additional layers of complexity that perplex me

Well, it doesn't appear that you can keep it to just sex. Ergo, you suck at it.

One of the problems is no self respect. No self respect equals allowing someone to use you as you wish. Anyone who respects themselves wouldn't let themself get into this situation in the first place.

Secondly, you may feel self destructive and have bad things happen and I am truly sorry for that but you have to think about your kids. Would you be happy for them to be in this situation as adults? Would you be happy for them to know that you are in this situation? If you can't be strong and get over your issues for your children (and of course, yourself) then there will honestly be nobody that you'll do it for.

You will only make things change if you truly want them to and you are taking on the hopeless persona and this wont get you anywhere. I am sure you don't mean to do this, but you have to rescue yourself you really do. Will this ever end well? What's the point in sticking with something that will never truly work out. I know it's easy enough to stick to what you are used to, but that doesn't always make it right.

It's not him, it's you.

You are not a reliable friend to yourself. You are unavailable to yourself. You will not help yourself achieve your own goals in life. You betray yourself into untrustworthy, exploitative company. You put down and put last your own basic needs. You insist you don't mind being a doormat for anybody to wipe feet upon, and ignore yourself when your very being cries out with suffering from it.

You are sabotaging yourself.

No wonder you are hoping somebody will save you, since you are being your own worst enemy. You will have to save yourself by fixing your relationship with yourself.

He is totally beside the point, a bagatelle, a mere nothing, and he sounds boring and stunted.

When you really get to know yourself and care properly for yourself, you will see how much more interesting and valuable you are. So, yes, please go back to therapy and concentrate on your relationship with yourself, not all these other random bodies.

Good luck FL, I think you are on the cusp of great changes.

'the additional layers of complexity'

which blow your theory right out of the water, that it is 'just sex'.

We are human beings, and wired to connect and connect intimately. Why do you fight and suppress this part of yourself?

If you took care of yourself first, you would not be drawn to needing hopeless things from a frankly repellent human being. Talking about his sexuality to his 11 year old daughter! It is so monstrously inappropriate and insensitive he should be turned into a eunuch for that.

If you aren't ready for therapy can I suggest a few books that helped me? I've been involved in poly relationships in the past as well as the BDSM scene. I'm now marrying a wonderful monogamous man after thinking I was broken and could never find someone like him attractive. I identify with your posts so much. You can turn yourself around and therapy will help. But in the meantime try reading:
www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/0871319993 this book and also 'women who love too much' by Robyn Norwood. They both helped me enormously.

Excellent posts from eccentrica and Yulebrynner.

OP: What would be so scary about being with someone who is completely available, who wants to spend the rest of their life with you, just you?

Being attracted to unavailable men is a way of keeping yourself 'safe' from real intimacy. Ironically, it causes you huge suffering.