Residual Parenting Commitments, The Last Turkey In The Shop, Boiled Bunnies, Men With Fish and Stolen Condoms. Dating Thread XXXI.

[FlorentinePogen]

Get on with it, daters.............

Loads of good luck for the interview, Banta. That has got to be your priority at the moment. Dealing with the Artist can certainly wait until afterwards. Is she aware, by the way, that you have this coming up, and that you will need time and headspace to prepare?

I would text her now to say you are busy preparing and travelling to the interview, and will contact her when you get back although you won't be able to respond to any messages in the meantime. I hope that will give you a bit of the space you need.

I wouldn't do it face to face or even by phone but I'm a bit of a chicken. Do whatever your conscience tells you, bearing in mind that she has no consideration for you and what's going on in your life.

JulietteMontague If it were me I think I'd just leave it as you don't gain anything from replying and (I imagine) it probably won't make you feel any better.

BantaBaby I would do whatever you think is best to put you in the right frame of mind for your interview, after all your first loyalty is to your children and I would have thought your getting the job would be best for them in the long run! If it were me I would leave it until after your interview, but then I hate any kind of conflict.

Good luck with your interview bant

You shouldn't even think about the Artist till afterwards. Then I agree with ike quick and clean. If you email she will repeatedly digest and twist every sentence. If it was me I would be very straight and explain you can't cope with her behavior !!

Oh and remember You are BANTABABY 5 times a night international man of mystery!!!

Snape - many thanks for your kind words. I am really delighted that yesterday's interview went so well.

Don't worry about shooting off down a slightly different road in responding to a question. An experienced interviewer will be aware of the nervousness on your part (regardless of how much you try to control it) - and theywill have asked that question so many times already anyway, and if it is important, they will come back to it (seamlessly).

The only factor you can't control is how experienced is the interviewer.

You obviously have a very good grasp of what is required in presenting for interview. The only little thing I would emphasise, is to maintain good eye contact. You would be amazed how tiresome it is for the interviewer who is trying to pick up cues, if eye contact is not maintained. Remember, it may have been a long day for the interviewer. What you actually say (within reason) is secondary to all the other stuff going on. But, I'm sure you know all that stuff anyway.

Oh and in relation to interviews, Bant, it is not a great idea to say something like "I was thinking about (anything)". I know you probably threw that out as a humorous line in your post - but, just in case, seeing as you are in the job market at the moment.

Snape - you are right about my age group. Not only am I the wrong gender for this thread but also the wrong age bracket. I will be 60 just in the New Year - but it is not something that means very much to me. I never think about what age somebody may be. The most exhilarating (business) lunch I've had in ages was recently with a lawyer who is 88 and who still goes into the office. Bright, breezy, alert and completely up to date with the modern world, and totally irreverent.

And, as far as women go, I never think about their age group and would struggle to get the decade right.

And, of course, at the moment I'm nearly 60, going on 18!!!!!!!!!

Masami I have replied simply with the 'Hi x, yes you have, Juliette' which is actually quite passive aggressive and doesn't give much away. My inclination was not to reply at all but it hadn't occurred to me as Banta says, that it could be misconstrued for sulking.

absolutely agree with Juliette - I'm very good at compartmentalising, had to walk past Voldemorts work to my interview yesterday, had a wee bit of a blip while i was in pret, but managed to fire cylinders in direction of presentation and interview and not think about DS1 at CAHMS the day before, Voldemort, christmas with the ex, general lack of money, DD potentially dropping out of school, etc etc etc. the priority for you and your DCs is your job just now, so stick her to one side, get on with stuff.

If it's any help/consolation, this would drive me MAD. my compartmentalising reaches to teh degree thatit ook 18 months (18!) before I decidied it was appropriate for the significant-ex-after-the-kids-dad to meet the DCs. I'd know Voldemort for a year before he met the kids (but then it's not as if we were romantically involved snort!) If someone isnt respectful of your boundaries regarding your children then thats a big enough red flag, without all the other stuff.

I think this is the right decidion.

Oh yes Jule..its true ..when I dont reply for a long period..say 48hr it generally means I am sulking or playing passive aggressive games...

Juliette at least you've taken control and said something so it doesn't keep playing on your mind if you should reply or not or what you might say.

antonym Just noticed yer 12 thing....wow!cool!

bant I hope it's okay for to barge in here on this thread I have been quietly reading here and there if time allows.

I cannot help, but finding your latest comments about the artist and how it generally is going between the two of, a little bit irritating.
There is so much I would like to say, but in a nutshell I cannot help wondering, really wondering, how the artist would tell the story of your little interactions.

I did send pm's to you before commenting about SA and your take on how to end it with her...but since I have "joined" this thread I rather air my point of view on the thread itself.

Personally, I get all your priorities, work, interviews, children etc. Nothing wrong with that, all very, very reasonable and all that.
But for some reason I get the impression you might be also not good at setting boundaries when in direct contact with the woman as in speaking on the phone or meeting in person.

I cannot believe after all the conversations and intimacy you've shared with Artist, you are even contemplating ending it via text message.

I am sorry. That's what cowards do. And I do not mean to insult you here.

oh wheesht deanmartin you're not the wrong age - there's loads of daters across a wide range of ages here?and we (try to) welcome the 'unfair' sex.

With regard to respect/manners etc and age - it's a tough one - obviously there will always be unevolved blokes of all ages - I like to think an older age group was brought up to respect women more, although that admitedly is tied up in a madonna/whore complex stereotype of women who would stay at home and raise your children against women who were 'loose' with their affections. Also, a lot of that socialisation is against the context of post war society - pre-feminism, pre-sexual revolution, where women would have returned to work within the home after doing their 'bit' during the war and relinquished control of finances back to their returning heroes.

Financial control equates to sexual control to a degree (again a bit of a generalisation) and the lack of reliable contraception factors in as well. Add in the changes to the obscene publications act in the late fifties and eary sixties, the huge increase in the availability of porn, consistently degrading images of women in the media (Lads mags especially - not quite porn, still objectifying women) and the freedom of 'once-the-kids-have grown-up-we can-divorce' then I'm not surprised that some men ofa certain age see internet dating as a 'sweetie shop' and have a massive sense of entitlement.

On the other side of the coin, girls are brought up with fairy tales of princesses and knights on white chargers, given little impetus to control our own destiny, expecting 'the one' to bowl up and sweep us off of our feet, are not fully supported to obtain or maintain financial independence (younger women may not be promoted as there is a suspision of maternity leave and associated cost?childcare fees are swallowed up and spat out by an average salary) and that can result in women on dating sites with desperately ticking biological clocks, but who may with-hold sex as a power-game, because they've been told good-girls don?t (can't believe we still believe this shit!) firm ideas about salary levels for potential partners and daddy-complexes that result in height-fetishes (self examination mirror on the last one..>

So in summary, everyone else is crap. we're all great. :) people should be honest! ( I watched that Ricky Gervais film, 'the truth about lying' at the weekend. that would make for very interesting OD, I imagine very few people would ever have sex again.)

LOADS of interview eye contact , lots of rapport, they were actually a very nice bunch. Felt myself running out of steam a bit and starting to wobble on presentation, so cut to my emergency ending. body language all good. am quietly hopeful, but reserve right to call them all sorts of mean-names if they reject me - but then I'm not new to rejection either. :) I fight on.

citizen - I understand your take on it - and yes, a text is a cowards way out, although not as cowardly as vanishing.

The problem isn't that I'm not setting boundaries - I have. The problem is that she's ignoring them or pushing at them all the time.

I've told her I won't have sex without contraception, and as she's not using any, I'll use a condom - she keeps trying to get me to not use one as she can't get pregnant at this time of the month.

I've told her that the DC don't get introduced to a new partner for at least 6 months. She said she wants to see them over the christmas holidays, but be introduced as a friend.

I've told her I was busy with the DC and then working on a presentation all day today, so I'd call her this evening, she's texting and phoning me and complaining about why I haven't responded to her texts.

I said I was thinking about going to see a friend in France for a few days over christmas, as my friend is having a bad time. She said she'd love to come with me. I said it was just going to be me seeing my friend and it was a bit early for planning holidays together. She complained that she'd miss me and would pay for her own flights if money was an issue.

So I think I'm being fairly clear setting the boundaries, it's that she's either wilfully or ignorantly overstepping them. This last thing with the angry phone call was an overstep too far.

The call vs text message question was to get peoples opinion, as I've said a fair bit about her, as to whether I could be cowardly or not, given her behaviour.

People seem split on the issue, but everyone seems to think I should put it off until after the interview - which is what I'll do.

thanks for your opinion though. I'm sure the artist would tell a different story but the facts are pretty much what they are.

banta thanks for your response. Of course, I am neither you nor her and I am also not knowing what is going on between the two of you...

You sound clearly annoyed, so why not phoning her, I would do so AFTER the interview (congrats by the way) as many have suggested.
Be friendly and fair, and tell her it's not for you. Maybe even do her a favour and share with her exactly why.
Make sure it's non-negotiable and let her also know in which way you were attracted to her. That's what I would suggest.

Anyway, of course you are asking people here what they think, this thread is perfect for that.

Personally, i would have asked is over the phone okay or should I meet her in person.
And if in person, should I let her know over the phone what I would like to talk about or should I keep it for myself until we actually sit down and chat...

But each to their own

ike yes I guess I don't think about the sulking thing as I don't sulk, not for any altruistic reasons I just can't hold it in. More likely to get it out and get it over with not that you'd guess for my ranting on here, no siree.

bant I've told her I won't have sex without contraception, and as she's not using any, I'll use a condom - she keeps trying to get me to not use one as she can't get pregnant at this time of the month.

^^^ I would have set my boundaries much sooner, if I would be in this situation.

For example, I am with a man and he keeps insisting not to use condoms as it would be safe and I wouldn't need to be worried about STI's

and/or he is infertile....or at least belives so, due to him having had intercourse without the use of contraception in long-term relationsip(s) in the past...

and whatever...trust me, there would be no need to keep trying to make him undersatnd, why I don't feel comfortable.

He would be history, very quickly, and I would have no issues telling him so, then and there or at least the next day over the phone, in case I needed to sleep a night over it and consult with friends and MN thread.
You might be more polite and vague, and some people, especially if hormonal and loved up, don't necessarily understand it.

from [shame]

Changing the subject a little bit . . .

Part of the conversation I had with LM last night was about neither of us being sure what the other one thought of us, if that makes sense.

I am in a way surprised by this as I've always treated him well in terms of attitude, got along really well with him, had lots of laughs and fun and done what I've said I'm going to do in terms of contacting him etc. But thinking about it, this isn't really enough, is it? It's basic good friendly behaviour magnified a couple of times. He does the same with me and I am wobbling and wavering all over the place.

I do really like him and I told him this last night and that he's lovely. But I seriously need help here. Without going OTT, how do I show him/tell him that I like him a lot - not as a one-off like saying he's lovely, but as a general way of acting with him that makes him realise this?

Sorry that this sounds so stupid. I really want to/need to start taking down my defences and opening up, but I have been like this for so long I'm not sure how to change. Any advice is very welcome.

OWW, it doesn't sound stupid

So what did he say about you? Did he open up then when this conversation came up?

Yes, we had a very good, long conversation about our relationship and expectations and crappy hang-ups last night. I was amazed as what we were each saying was almost a mirror image of what the other one was saying. We have both come out of difficult relationships and both find it difficult to make ourselves vulnerable by opening up and trusting someone.

We have agreed that we both really like each other and want to take the scary scary risk of being more open, moving things forward and trusting each other ie moving into a proper emotional relationship. So I am feeling a lot more secure with him from that point of view now I know how he is thinking.

But I just don't know how to do it!! I want to, I've said I will . . . but how do I?

Help.

OWW, what I have to add ist totally daft, but I am going to say it anyway.

What you've described sounds like a beautiful exchange between two mature people who are very much aware of their feelings including fears and ambivalence and uncertainties.
Having shared that and essentially being on the same page is a very important foundation and everything else could be build step by step like a dance and you might go with the flow without thinking much about "what you'll have to do or say".
Sounds daft I know, but that's what I would do.

Thank you so much for that, World, it's so very reassuring (and probably too kind!).

I was very pleased to find that we feel so much the same way about things, even the more negative end of the spectrum. It does seem like we have a good foundation now to build on, and although I know there are no guarantees that things will work out, I feel very positive about how things could develop here.

Going with the flow? I can do that!

Western "But I just don't know how to do it!" Um, hate to tell you this but you're already doing it.

Bant Def wait til after you're back before breaking up with the Artist. If you were breaking up with her for different reasons (she lived too far away or she was reasonable person but it just wasn't working for some reason) I would have said do it by phone. After being so intimate with her it would only seem right. HOWEVER...given what you've already told us about her, I think a phone conversation is likely to get angry and messy and go round in circles and last for hours as she will will either genuinely or deliberately not want to hear what you're saying. So really, I think text or email is going to be the only way to do it. But I would be prepared for the fact that she will then want to phone you to talk about it. While you don't want to be nasty to her ("I've decided your a psycho-crazy, hormonal middle aged stalker and I can't cope with you!!" is probably NOT the way to go), you are going to have to be really, really clear. Be very black and white about it, don't sugar coat it and definitely don't leave the door open. I'm sorry, it's not going to be easy but it's the only way to do it.

Best of luck with your interview!!

bant good luck!

Well i had a fantastic night and morning with Mr Cheeky (10 times he is like a Duracell bunny .. And the quality was there this time as well .). He had listened to everything I said after the last time

He's still not in an ideal situation as he is lodging with a pal but I've told him if he sorts himself out I may consider him as an option (as have told him I want more than just a FB and he suggested he wanted to be more) .. We'll see

If anyone wants an ego boost visit an old fashioned transport cafe.
I go to my friends cafe nearly every wednesday lunch time for a fry up.
Had a really lovely chap who I had never met before chatting to me over the bacon and eggs. When he left everyone in there said he was hitting on me, I was oblivious. He is a regular, they all know him. Was nice