Anyone there please? DP admitted to kissing someone in the pub.

[Owlfright]

I've namechanged as I'm worried my usual name is too recognisable to family and friends.

If there is anyone awake who could hold my hand I would be so grateful.

A friend told me this evening (sat) that last night my DP had been seen "snogging" another woman in a pub. He was out with some friends.

I've confronted him and he initially denied it, but then admitted it.

I'm not sure there is a word for how I feel- shell shocked shocked, sick, panicky.

We've been together 9 years and have a fabulous 5yo DS together. Things have been tense for a few weeks following a disagreement between us, but I fully expected us to be able to work through it.

He has said sorry, but I'm ashamed to admit he doesn't seem very sorry. I confronted him around 11.30pm fully expecting him to be full of remorse but he just kept referring to the fact that we've not been getting on.

I felt so angry that I had to get out of the house (DS is staying with my mum), I'm due to collect him in the morning. I drove round for a bit, and for some reason checked myself into a cheap hotel.

I'm there now, unable to sleep and frantic with not knowing what to do.

I know it's a cliche and people say its not so important but I'm petrified of turning our sweet loving little boy's world upside down. He adores his dad and would be devastated if he was to leave.

I can't believe this is happening, I don't know what to do.

oops, have namechanged, btw

We can't live your life for you Owlfright or dictate what you do next but if you post here there's always someone to listen. Think things through at your own pace.

It's very easy for us strangers on the Internet, looking from the outside, to make judgements & give advice.

However, when you're in that situation, you don't have clarity & can't see the wood for the trees. There's also the emotional lag-factor, where your emotions are a step or ten behind reality.

Letting go & making the decision is so hard. You spend a lot of time exploring the grey area (speaking as someone who spent a lot of time faffing around in "no man's land", as I called it).

You might have a lightbulb moment or you might take a while. It will all work itself out, one way or another.

We're here to hold your hand through the process.

Try to regain some control. You will feel a hell of a lot better if you do.

So yes, he should go (he's clearly going anyway) so that you can BOTH think about whether you should carry on having a relationship. Say you have a pretty good idea of what you want to happen - and don't say it with a begging tone in your voice, say it so that he wonders what you want. Say that of course if he's away from home his child will need to see him "and of course I'll need to get out and have a break myself. So you have him for Friday night until Saturday 2pm, eh?"

I do think the only think you can try to do is put yourself in the driving seat here rather than wait to see what he decides.

I'm so relieved that people understand.

The talk went ok, lots of straight talking which made a nice change. I think the anger and then the not talking for several weeks tipped him over into a place where he began to love me less. We've agreed that terrible communication and lack of intimacy were and are a big problem, he accepted his share of the blame.

I'm furious with myself for letting the silence continue for so long, I so wish I had realised it was risking our relationship. Looking back it seems so stupid.

I've told him to go if he needs space. He offered to sleep in the sofa tonight. I'm not sure if he's definitely going tomorrow, but I think he probably will.

He will be staying with the same friend he did all that time ago. When he stormed off and spent the next 6 moths kicking his wounds and deciding whether he wanted to come back or not. The feeling of history repeating itself is really really horrible.

Thanks again everyone, I don't know what I would do without you.

edith I'm not sure what you mean by "feeding his expectations"?

imperial, your advice is great, but I've already totally f*ed it up by admitting I want to make it work. I feel very very stupid now, but at the time it felt like being honest was the right thing to do.

Oh bugger, I've gone and put myself into the weakest position ever haven't I?!

Songwriters: HEATON, PAUL / ROTHERAY, DAVE

"A little time" The Beautiful South

I need a little time
To think it over
I need a little space
Just on my own
I need a little time
To find my freedom
I need a little...
Funny how quick the milk turns sour
Isn't it, isn't it
Your face has been looking like that for hours
Hasn't it, hasn't it
Promises, promises turn to dust
Wedding bells just turn to rust
Trust into mistrust
I need a little room
To find myself
I need a little space
To work it out
I need a little room
All alone
I need a little...
You need a little room for your big head
Don't you, don't you
You need a little space for a thousand beds
Won't you, won't you
Lips that promise - fear the worst
Tongue so sharp - the bubble burst
Just into unjust
I've had a little time
To find the truth
Now l've had a little room
To check what's wrong
I've had a little time
And I still love you
I've had a little...
You had a little time
And you had a little fun
Didn't you, didn't you
While you had yours
Do you think I had none
Do you, do you
The Freedom that you wanted bad
Is yours for good
I hope you're glad
Sad into unsad
I had a little time
To think it over
Had a little room
To work it out
I found a little courage
To call it off
I've had a little time
I've had a little time
I've had a little time
I've had a little time

Let him go. As far as i can tell from your description of the situation ..he will no longer have a comfortable home. He will no longer earn enough to keep himself , he will lose out on family life with his Ds.
It seems he has much more to lose than you but he's too childish and stubborn to realise it. He'll probably be sheepishly begging for your forgiveness in a few weeks.

AF that's brilliant, really really brilliant!! I pray that I might feel like that one day!!

I've heard that track so many times but I've never realised the significance if the words.

I may have to make an exception to my 'no gimmicky' ringtone policy .

...and by then I hope you will have decided he is surplus to requirements and doesn't posses the necessary attributes you wish for in a partner

brighter you're right, he will loose that and doesn't have the resources to fund any kind of life. He may even end up back with his parents, unless that is he finds a new woman- I've seen it before when men jump from one warn bed into another .

From our discussion earlier, I think he has realised how much he stands to loose- SI the fact that he's willing to risk it all must mean he really doesn't want me....

it's not that he doesn't want you as such...he doesn't want the you that questions him, that expects respect and faithfulness, that is unwilling to let him shit all over you

hence, he will punish you again to bring you back into line, by making you terrified he will leave you for ever

he is the one that stands to lose the most...but his arrogance will never let him acknowledge that

and I have to agree...he will go and cocklodge somewhere else in a jiffy

If he leaves the family home, he has permission/an excuse to go out and kiss some more (perhaps the same) women. Which is what he wants. If he was sorry he would be kicking and screaming and doing anything to stay.

He is no good. Get him to leave and detach, detach, detach. Move yourself on emotionally because it sounds like he already has. I'm so sorry.

Fwiw you sound like a fabulous mum and far and away the best parent of the two of you. Your ds needs someone to be the grown up so stop playing his games. Just let him go.

By 'feeding his expectations", I meant acting in the way he expects - row, drama, things he can blame you for - the old predictable path along which he can manipulate you. If you do not react in the way he expects, he has to find new ways of handling an emotionally charged situations. And you get to see more of what sort of man he really is. If he thinks you will beg him to stay, he retains undue power in your relationship. If you do not conform to that expectation, he has to consider things in a new way.

If there's one piece of advice I'd give, too, it's that you shouldn't look upset when he goes or when you see him. He'll love that, all that drama, all about him. Get up early, get yourself showered, make up on, nicest clothes on. Treat yourself if you want something new. Try to look happy. "Oh I'm fine, everything's great!" should be what you're saying. "No, really, it's fantastic having this time apart. It makes me realise..." (pause for effect) "Well, never mind that. Now I have to dash - come and pick up DS at the same time next week, ok? Don't be late as I'll be going out."

Ok, thanks everyone I will steel myself not to look too upset when he goes, or to beg.

I actually got to sleep and just woke up now, a little before 5. That feeling while you are waking up of remembering that something horrible is happening is just awful. One minute I was waking up thinking "it's raining again", then it hits me like a train, and I'm hot, anxious, panicking.

Yesterday I just needed to hibernate, I was so so relieved to get DS into bed. He deserves better, he was just so lovely- all chatty and full of fun after his afternoon with my mum, and I wasn't properly listening. I just wanted to run back to my bed .

It puzzles me that yesterday I really felt I couldn't decide what I wanted, then we chat, and bang, I desperately don't want us to split up. All the reasons I could see for splitting up have gone, and I'm terrified.

Thank you all so much for your support. Im sorry I haven't been able to comment in every post, but I've read and taken every one in. You nest of vipers are my lifeline.

I'm really dreading the day ahead .

Sorry, I meant comment on every post.

Of course you are finding it hard to let him go, you know it unlikely he will come back, but keeping him there will not stop it from happening if it's already where he is in his head.

No one expects you should be able to just kick him out without a second glance but you cannot do all the work at saving this.

It does sound as though he is going to leave, we can't say if he will come back but I can tell you often when partners leave and then want to come back they aren't wanted. People learn to realize that actually they weren't happy either, life is easier/simpler/calmer/generally more enjoyable without them.

It is not easy. It you will get through this.

Oh, darlin'. :( No words of advice that haven't already been said. Just here to hold your hand.

Hmm, I don't think he is going to leave. I don't think he came back last time because he loved you both and wanted to be a dad. I think he came back because 6 months in his friends' house was the absolute maximum he could possibly have stayed without massively pissing them off and he needed to come back so you could keep him again. Since then he has been punishing you for expecting he be a partner and a father because what he wants is to be a child. If he goes this time it will be for a very short time, his friend definitely won't want a repeat of last time.

I suspect he has been cheating because of this argument over his work because he is trying to find a backup woman to cocklodge with in case you continue to put your foot down over him having to be a partner and not a dependent. He has now succeeded in getting you to take at least some (the majority?) of the blame for that argument even though it was 100% reasonable of you and to be, and express that you are, frightened of him leaving.

If he does actually go it will not be for long unless he has found another meal ticket and then he will not come back.

When you say he took his share of the blame do you mean you agreed you caused the relationship problem by continuing to insist his choice over work was wrong and he accepted it was wrong to kiss someone else? You do know that he was 100% wrong and you were 100% right in the way you dealt with that and unless he accepted that he hasn't accepted responsibility, what he has done is blame you.

Sorry, I don't mean to come across as angry/irritated at you! I feel angry at him!!! I do have a theory about the type of dickhead we are dealing with here. If you are compliant he will not be trying to find the next meal ticket. When you are not he will first of all try to make you absolutely afraid he will leave you and simultaneously convinced that would be the end of the world. This cheating serves two purposes; 1. To humiliate and manipulate you into trying to hang onto him like he is a prize which allows him to either get away with having treated you like shit on his shoe or prepare you to accept that treatment or both and 2. Suss out possible replacement meal tickets in case you get too difficult to manage.

I understand
I really, really do
I'm not going to give any more advice, you've heard my story and as I said, it's not yours. Just know that I empathise with you massively. If you are interested in how I felt then and feel now- there was panic and anxiety about making the decision, insecurity, worry, desperate sadness at what I was losing. Now? 4 months later I feel good. Of course I have moments of sadness and regret but my heart is at peace. I'm not seesawing between elation when I get some (rare) quality couple or family time, and depression when we are abandoned yet again all weekend on our own. I'm not worrying about what I can do to improve our future together, I'm not trying to sneak a look at his mobile or wondering who he is with when he goes out after a row.
Honestly, my heart is calm and at peace. It's a lovely place to be. (Probably a bit like people in good relationships feel but I wouldn't know!)

Owl Im gonna gve you advice via my own story of a break up with my ex:

It started via an old girlfriend from 20 yrs back contacting my then P, i encouraged the contact, so it started, one day he was asleep, and my instincts nagged at me, so i checked the messages on his phone, well i was right, sexual and loving texts from her, i didnt see ones from him to her, we fought, i decided to forgive, HUGE MISTAKE, because from then on he turned into a selfish, bratish, horrid man, i had PND, it got so much worse, to the point waking up was a chore, much less raise a child, who was just a bit more than 1 at this point. This woman would text him all the time, and even lie about who was texting, it went on for 8 LONG MONTHS, he was depressed by now too (well boo hoo) i tried a suicide attempt, he left me that same day, then sent me a text saying "Goodnight Sexy, cant wait to say that in person in 2 days time" i called him he said it was me, but where was he in 2 days, oh yeah, 300 mile away with the other woman, leaving me with 100 quid for me and the DD, did he call to ask about his child, did he heck, did he have a go at me saying i was using our DD as a weapon, cause i dared to say how much she missed him, oh heck yeah he did. we had a fight after he returned (egg on his face coz this woman was married and planned to stay that way) saying that we only got engaged to "shut me up", he tried getting back together with me, but i hurt so much i just couldnt be near him again. Hes a half arsed parent, sees DD once every 6 weeks, took him 2 years to pay for her, now he knows im not being made a mug of.

I've been single for 3 years now, prefer to raise my child, and im doing my very best, we happy together.

So Owl think about what you really want?, because your child will be just fine, being a good mummy means being healthy in the head, he doesnt make you healthy does he? He, if actually sorry needs to know what losing you for good means, coz, oh boy, does my ex know now, if he leaves and doesnt come back then he obviously didnt love you enough to make it work, if he comes back and you want to make it work, then let the strong woman out, and let him know, that he does it ever again then hes gone, dont be a mug and be a women and mummy, coz i went through hell, and i can tell you, the strength i've gained was worth it.

No advice to add - just another hand to hold.

How are you?

Just read your whole thread OP. Let him go :( I'm sorry.

He's bringing you down, not bringing you love or joy.

Be strong this morning.