Anyone there please? DP admitted to kissing someone in the pub.

[Owlfright]

I've namechanged as I'm worried my usual name is too recognisable to family and friends.

If there is anyone awake who could hold my hand I would be so grateful.

A friend told me this evening (sat) that last night my DP had been seen "snogging" another woman in a pub. He was out with some friends.

I've confronted him and he initially denied it, but then admitted it.

I'm not sure there is a word for how I feel- shell shocked shocked, sick, panicky.

We've been together 9 years and have a fabulous 5yo DS together. Things have been tense for a few weeks following a disagreement between us, but I fully expected us to be able to work through it.

He has said sorry, but I'm ashamed to admit he doesn't seem very sorry. I confronted him around 11.30pm fully expecting him to be full of remorse but he just kept referring to the fact that we've not been getting on.

I felt so angry that I had to get out of the house (DS is staying with my mum), I'm due to collect him in the morning. I drove round for a bit, and for some reason checked myself into a cheap hotel.

I'm there now, unable to sleep and frantic with not knowing what to do.

I know it's a cliche and people say its not so important but I'm petrified of turning our sweet loving little boy's world upside down. He adores his dad and would be devastated if he was to leave.

I can't believe this is happening, I don't know what to do.

AEfond I am hoping to look at why I'm willing to settle for so little in relationship with a counsellor. Sadly, I don't think I can throw DP out yet, but maybe a counsellor will help me move towards doing it.

I get that, it's so hard when you still have strong ties to someone and you seem so intertwined you can't unravel it all.. I'm doing exactly the same thing with my therapist so will be here for you if you want to discuss it. Keep reading and re-reading the posts, I've done that and it's really helped me get perspective (see how much I've lost perspective actually).
No-one's rushing you, do what you need to to feel comfortable with the pace.
best wishes

DP came home just before I collected DS from school. I went upstairs and saw a holdall on the bed, I realised he was actually packing for the gym, but I thought he was leaving. Until I realised it was just for the gym the panic was awful, I felt like I'd been punched in the stomach. I'm still shaking, and I'm not usually an anxious person.

I knew I'd be gutted if he left, but I thought I had achnowledged that it would possibly be a good thing so I would cope OK with it. Clearly not . Its left me really anxious about coping with that gut wrenching moment that may or may not be coming.

He's still saying he's not made a decision. I said this couldn't go on forever and he said he knew that. He asked me how I felt and I said I thought I'd explained clearly yesterday how I felt. I think that my comment was pretty rubbish- I'm playing into his hands. Part of me wants to scare him into thinking I've changed my mind and I want to finish things- but when it comes to it I go into autopilot and tell the truth .

Do you think he has made use of the opportunity of packing a hold all to go to the gym to frighten you? Have you given him a time limit? You could just say "well you have to make a decision by x or I will" and not say anything about what you might decide for him but you could only do this if you feel able to holding to being strong and deciding for him and making him comply because an empty threat would be worst of all.

I think aefond has made a really good point there's nothing wrong with you, except for the fact that for a complex set of reasons you are willing to stay with someone who treats you quite badly. If you can unpack those reasons and reorient yourself so that you are not always putting him first and living in fear of what he will do -- then you can move on with your life, and probably you will find that you are actually quite fine.

I do recognise those reactions you are having the panic, the fear from a couple previous horrible relationships I have had. All I can say is I survived them and life went on and was actually much better in the long run. Sometimes panic and fear is not protective, they are just learned responses because of the way others your DP, your mum have treated you. I know it can be so hard to defy those feelings, to do things which will keep you feeling that way, but it is short term pain for long term gain. If you can bear it now, for a little while, then you can move on and not have to worry about feeling it ever again because of him.

You sound like such a lovely person. I think there is an amazing future in store for you, when you can move on from this man. Everything is going to suck really badly for a while, no doubt, but you will get through this and be happy again.

oh owl that punched feeling it's the worst.

It may be too early for you to hear this but what kind of man would put that kind of fear into you and call himself your P?

This how I've been breaking it down thanks to mn:

• This guy knows me intimately, which means he knows what scares me, makes me laugh, what I like to watch on TV, etc.

• I have had solid, daily proof of this intimate knowledge so I know I'm not making it up.

• Ergo, if he is scaring me, he is using that intimate knowledge to hurt me.

• I don't want to EVER EVER EVER be with someone who does that, it is not what I consider love to be.

• It is what nasty people or, at best immature, people do and I don't want my DS to think that is ok.

See what I mean?

Go with the feelings, however awful they are, they can show you your limits if you don't yet know them.

If you're not ready to dump him, maybe what you can do is find away to put an end to the suspense factor by giving him or at least yourself a deadline for him leaving you (even if it's just for thinking time).

Take care xx

He asked me how I felt

Pity you can't say "I'm arranging a lodger, he's single, a fireman and 25 so on you go, leave your key".

Yes your heart pounds and you feel frightened. It could mean you are taking this all in and standing up for yourself!

He'll take his time, he's like a cat toying with a mouse, confident you'll be in bits long before the weekend while he's round the back of a pub or if it's cold, in a car snogging some young female.

Life isn't all bravado and smart comebacks Owlfright. Sometimes it comes down to basics like do you trust each other, does holding onto someone you last felt 100% sure of five years' ago still mean anything when he is about to flounce off again? if giving in to patch things up means STFU about anything that rocks the boat whatever sneaky tactics he uses?

He can talk to your stepdad behind your back, get his story straight. He's not so upset and distressed he can't pick out a girl and humiliate you in front of your friends. You even name changed here to avoid embarrassment. He is playing you.

I've been lurking

I fail to see how this is a situation where you wait to see how he decides.

You need to be a in partnership to be in a relationship. It is the only way. You have to love and respect and value. You need to believe in fairness and equality.
You need to believe you are worth those things and demand them for yourself.

There is no partnership when one person gets to demand to do what they want or leave.

You aren't being difficult or selfish if you are asking someone to respect you and your feelings, values or love. It is possible to have self esteem and remain in a relationship.
Your child will grow up happier with good role models and happy parents.
Only you can make yourself happy

Just wanted to say I am sorry this is happening to you and your ds. He has power by saying he hasn't decided yet. You could say, well, I have and you should go. But as you say, you can't bring yourself to do that. Is he expecting something from you to change his mind, or is he waiting to hear from someone her can stay, this woman he was kissing, for instance?

I don't know about leaving gym holdays on beds, sounds very manipulative to me. How can he go to the gum and have all this going on at home?

The only good thing is that you can imagine him gone and how you and your ds will cope very well, so by visualising it, you might actually prefer it. He is being very cruel to you both. Can you get away at the weekend to family or friends with dc his age or thereabouts? Just to think and let you and your ds have some fun? It's very hard, but you and your ds dont deserve this. Make plans for christmas too, away. Just in case. If he amazes you with a total behaviour change he can accompany you. Dont end up alone or in an atmosphere at home.

Hello OP. Not posted before but been reading and standing right behind you x

I just wanted to add something about the doing stuff on purpose to hurt / manipulate you. Or if he's just doing it because he's a clueless prick.

I have just come out of a very painful breakup. It dragged on for a long while afterwards becuase he would ignore me for weeks, then pick me up, then be horrible, then beg me to have him back etc etc all in a vicious circle. I couldn't work out if he was doing it on purpose to cause me maximum pain, or if it was by accident.

Then I thought "Hold on - he's hurting me either because he's a manipulative bastard, or an emotionally stunted clueless idiot. Either way he's hurting me. And either way, he's not someone I'm interested in"

It was like a lightbulb moment!

Liken it to murder and man slaughter. One is unintentional. One is done with malice aforethought. Either way, someone's dead!

He's using this time to get the measure of how far he can go in his manipulation of you. He isn't making up his mind about the relationship- he's pushing to see how far you'll bend to give in to him. I predict a statement from him saying he'll stay, as long as you never hassle him ever again about who he snogs or worse sees socially / pay all the bills while he does his hobby full time.

Of course you'll miss the fun happy times. But those are not on offer now, whether he stays or goes. And you know, that isn't solely his decision. He out the decision making in your hands when he started getting off with other women in pubs. Of course he wants to make it all about his work hours- far easier to tell everyone that his wife is crushing his dream than it is to admit that he's been unfaithful in public.

I have been wanting to suggest this for a couple of days, but wasn't sure to. This "snog" was outside the pub, yes ? Are you sure it wasn't a knee-trembler, against the wall, knickers around ankles job ?

Would that make any difference to your mindset ? The reason I ask is because if you let this incident go with no consequences for him, you chase him and let him have all his own way...that is the next step. It is simply a matter of time. As someone else very sadly found, to her cost (and also millions of women the world over)

This is hard to write, I know I am letting down the wonderful posters on here who feel so sure that for me to not end this would be very stupid.

We have talked. DP has apologised, literally on his knees, in tears for his behaviour on Friday. He said this snog (yuck) was outside the pub, he was very drunk, very stupid. He has been to see the person who saw it and told them he is a complete twat.

The stupid man was flattered by the attention, at a time when he (boo hoo) was feeling low. It's not what I wanted to hear but it is his explanation, at least I have one now.

He will not work on Sundays, we will spend it together or he will do something with DS and I can do something for myself. His saturday work will be finished by 6. He will work at least three other days, which means if I want to I could drop my work to only 3.5 days (which I wont though, that would be too dangerous). Unfortunately the job stuff can't yet be set in stone as it is dependent on a company changing hands and the new owner taking him on. However, I do know for sure that the changeover is imminent, and that he has had discussions with the new owner.

In the meantime he will apply for work, next week he is working for a friend of a friend who is a builder and has hurt his shoulder so needs a hand.

He will be sleeping on the sofa until I am ready to forgive him. Not sure how that bit will go yet.

I've asked for more domestic help, he's agreed but I guess it's quite possible that he doesn't stick to this. I think he will need to prove himself on this front before he leaves the sofa.

I need to think about all this, I'm not promising him anything, but I'm not kicking him out yet.

Counsellor hasn't returned my call yet, and I think I will still go.

I'm am incredibly grateful to everyone for their kind, wise and insightful posts. I'm sorry to those of you who will feel let down that I've not taken the course of action that seems right to them.

I don't know if it's going to work or not, but I can't make myself end it at the moment, I'm not ready.

Gosh, I don't think you are letting anyone down at all with that. Yes we all probably think you would be happier without him and doubt he will change but this is your life and I admire your strength in asserting to both him and us what it is that you expect and need. X

You are not letting anybody down! It is your life, your relationship your family. I am not on Relationship with one aim in mind: For as many women to kick out their menfolk as possible. That is an option if things are not going well.

From the punch in your stomach (emotional) to his breaking down, it is obvious that you both want to try mend this. Talking is good. Good luck. Do come back and talk to us!

Owlfright Why not set out an agreement, of things you both want your relationship to be, sit and discuss it, no butting in and listen, calm and cool, so you can both have say in what you both from your relationship, you've stalled, in time if he proves himself the man you want then forgive him, but make sure he knows that just because you've forgiven him, doesnt mean he can go back to his old ways.

You haven't let us down. I hate the timing of my post above your last one now, but it can't be helped (and I do stand by it...like I stand by everything else I have said to you)

But you don't owe us a thing

We gave our time and advice to you of our own free will, and we would be rotten people if we had expectations of a particular outcome (no matter how much we wanted it..for you) and punished you if we didn't get it

I wish you all the luck in the world. I hope you still see the counsellor (please, just do this one for me ) and I hope you still stick around on MN. And always this : you know where we are if you need us.

You're not letting anyone down Owl. You're starting to take control of your own decisions, which is a big leap forward. Your previous post was about how upset you were that he hadn't made his mind up - now you are talking about when you will be willing to move back to sharing a bed, whether you will consider kicking him out or not. Those decisions are yours to make - your husband doesn't get to take sole control over what happens now, and we certainly don't :).

Seeing the counsellor sounds like a wise move.

And MN will always be here however things work out.

Owl You do what you need to do for you, we are outsiders giving you advice to move forward, maybe in time things will work out, only you can decide if you want to give him that chance, so do whats right for you, stay strong, and advice is always available.

Sincere good wishes Owlfright hope everything works out.

best wishes owl, will be thinking of you xx

Owl you are not letting anyone down. I believe people deserve second chances. He has the chance to prove himself one way or the other. I hope you are happy together.

Thank you everyone, you are a wonderful bunch of ladies, I wish I knew how to thank you for your support. I couldn't have coped over the past few days without you.

AF, the councillor returned my call and I've just left her another message with the times that I'm free. So I hope I can see her really soon. Not sure where to start, but I'm hoping she will help with that.

AEfond, I think if you often. I'm not wise enough to comment on your thread but I will be a lurker there and I am holding your hand from here. PM me if there is anything I can do for you.

How a you today owl?

I'm good thank you. Seeing councillor today, actually I think shes a full blown therapist- really not sure where to start when I get there.

I have learned so much from this thread, which means I cannot sweep any of this neatly under the carpet.

DP is behaving in an exemplary way, and it is nice. If I let myself I could feel overjoyed, but I'm scared to because I don't want him to feel forgiven. In my own mind I feel like I've forgiven him, but I feel that I shouldnt have.

It's quite hard to balance moving forward, with not giving my forgiveness and trust on a plate if that makes any sense?!

I think knowing that quite a few people know about this is hard too. Plus I don't know how many other people the person who initially saw and told my friend will choose to tell. I don't think she is a particularly discrete person, and she owes me no favours.......

I don't want people wondering if I know, feeling sorry for me. I'd rather they knew that I know and have made my own decisions surrounding what DP did IYSWIM. I know it's best not to care what people think, but I've always found that hard....

Thank you again to all the wonderful MN who have helped me.