I need help (and you'll probably flame me)

[MrsMorton]

I met DH when he was married and I was the OW, I'm not going to talk about my guilt etc but believe me it is ever present.
We have been together (not in an affair) for seven years and married for three. He has older children from his previous marriage, the youngest is 18 and I'm 31.

He absolutely does not trust me, last night a friend called me and DH sulked all night and is still sulking. Another friend who's DH has just DIED, texted me at midnight and I got a hard time for that as well.

Will he ever trust me? Is it my fault for being the OW? Is it because he knows how easy it was for us to get together? It's such a depressing way to live. I don't even contemplate doing things like going for works Xmas do because I know that even asking him if I can go will make him accuse me of something and I will get loads of texts asking me where I am and what I'm doing.

The only thing I've ever done to make him think this is I had emails on my account which were rude/flirty from before we met, I had forgotten about them & he logged on and found them.

Mrs Morton please report the offensive PMs you have received, as this will be a good way of repaying MN for the help you've received on this thread. It's in none of our interests to have posters allowed on this site who conduct themselves this way and as I recall, MNHQ has promised that it takes offensive PMs even more seriously than hate posts on a thread. Which is right because PMs are a more serious level of personal attack.

I agree that your reaction to this is telling. At best it might mean that you tell yourself that the approbation of others is worse than living with a controlling and emotionally abusive man and therefore gives you an excuse for inertia and at worst it might mean that you are so deeply entrenched in victim mode that you can't discern between mistakes you should own and those you should not.

Be very clear about this. You behaved very badly years ago and need to own that behaviour and not excuse it, but once you've done that - forgive yourself and resolve never to get into that situation again. But part of that process is seeing that you and his ex-wife were both victims of an abusive and controlling man that you both always deserved to be free of.

Don't continue to victimise yourself about either your marriage or MN. Report the messages and take responsibility for investment in this online community. End your marriage and take responsibility for your own life and happiness.

Goodness what a thread... Affairs (and discussion re where blame lies for them) = angst, unavoidably. OP I think that's a bit of a side issue though, in your case. Even if you'd both been single when you got together, the things you're describing about your relationship aren't healthy. You're not happy - that's what matters. Everyone deserves to be happy, everyone. Guilt gives you nothing, it only takes. So gird your ladyballs and go and do what makes you happy, which I sincerely doubt involves staying with your husband...

OP writing yourself off as a bad, naive, incompetent person is just another way of avoiding doing the hard work of taking care of yourself. Writing other people off as judgmental is just another way of avoiding having to listen to them. You've made a start on taking back control of your life and you should reward yourself for every small step you take in that direction. Self-flagellation and feeling sorry for yourself are understandable but they're just distractions. They're ways of giving up on yourself.

You're scared of being alone, of taking a big decision, of being responsible for your life, of what people will say. The only way past that is to face your fears honestly one step at a time. No one else can either do that for you or stop you from doing it if you want to do it. Its your life and your choice. You're perfectly capable of it so stop letting yourself off the hook so lightly.

Whether you stay here or leave, OP, it sounds like you've made some great progress in assessing your life and options. Take what you find useful from this thread and ignore the rest (and do report those vile PMs).

Hi Fuckit, yes we are in agreement. I have said a few a times on this thread that no-one deserves to be in such an unhappy relationship with a dreadfully controlling, abusive man. No-one.

But OP's post was terribly mistimed, insulting and makes me wonder what her true feelings are about what she did - I think it was really rather illuminating.

I have RL friends who have had affairs with married men. I still love them, support them, socialise with them. I do understand that OP is a real person, just like my friends, who is imperfect as (I hope it goes without saying) we all are.

I'm afraid I also agree with what you say about Abit. Sorry Abit - I know you often have very insightful comments but equally your posts often really jar with me, make me cringe and to be honest worry me a bit.

Wow , this kicked off a bit..?! It reads to me that OP has been trained so thoroughly in being appeasing by her DH , she has naively tried to take on board everybodies perspective/opinion... even a thread sniper... MrsM , you have had alot of positivity , glean that out from the crap and take it on board...the more time you spend reading these forums you will get used to the stranger habits of the haters/snipers/trolls. You need to find some self esteem/confidence in your own self... I suspect your H has had his fingers in your head fiddling with your mind for so long you have lost sight of your sense of self x

Why do moral relativists deny this very basic fact of life, as 'judgement'? It is not judgement, it is stating a fact. You really do reap what you sow. No amount of progressive theories will ever take this fact of life away.

I am sorry, but no. Choices have consequences but life is made of random chances that can't always be controlled. People can make 'good' choices and live 'good' lives and still have shit happen to them.
You can decide on your own behaviour and moral compass but you can't impose it on others.

^^ yes that and also wobbly what do you feel that you did to deserve a cunt who abused you then cheated on you and then left you? Was it a natural consequence of what you have done in your past . Do you think people get cancer for being a bit of a bitch for instance? Or burgled because they were rude to the shop keeper?

one day anyone's DD could turn up at the door and say "I need help" like I have and where would they put their judgy pants then? It's easy to take the moral high ground and judge

I am speechless at this rudeness.

And then when you are called on it put yourself back into the martyr role?

Well bloody done.

Quietly I don't think it does - I think it means you have made better choices than some other people. You may have done things in your life that other people think are wrong but that doesn't make them better than you.

Some people don't actually have affairs with married men just for fun or with an intention of finding a man who is married in spite of what some posters seem to think - I think there are many people on this thread that have absolutely no idea about these situations. Of course there are many people who do target married men but that is not really relevant to this thread.

In an ideal world of course it is the right thing NOT to have an affair with a married man but what I don't understand is that the OP did this but it does not mean she deserves what she gets. It does mean she shouldn't be surprised this is how things turn out though.

OP - please do not think about the reasons behind why you are being treated like this - it was a long time ago and you need to make decisions about your relationship based on whether you are happy in it or not. No one deserves to be treated like this regardless of past mistakes. MN is a fantastic place for advice and you do have to take on board both sides of the views but never allow posters to abuse you via PMs - please report them!

woozley you happy with your input to this thread and how it panned out ?

got any more words of support for the OP?

no, I fucking thought not

Oh christ.. this thread is dead in the water... OP , take the bits that make sense to you.... walk away.

No, AF, actually, I think woozley is, OP took the bait beautifully.

I think AH meant no words of support, not that s/he wasn't happy with how the thread went barmy.

AF of course.

Mrs M if I were you I wouldn't hang about. Except to organise alternative arrangements that put you where he can't get at you. Stopping only to get as much of your stuff out as you can without raising alarm. Plus any evidence you can to show unreasonable controlling behaviour. Good luck.

Just in the interest of balance... There are two issues/questions in this thread:

1. Is OP in a crappy situation with her OH based on his behaviour and how she feels
2. Is there a moral issue associated with how OP got into her relationship - more divisive and not really related to point (1) unless you believe in karma or some other kind of divine vengeance

I'm staying out of the discussion on (2) but can't we agree that on (1) OP needs some support?

Most of us did agree on Point 1 and gave the OP lots of support.

Charbon I know. I've read the whole thread. But it got a bit angsty, hence my point.

yup, agree that the current situation is definitely the issue
the ow stuff is a red herring, but then the op did make quite a feature of it
there's nothing really to keep you with this man, is there op, unless you enjoy not having to decide in starbucks

Really quietly? Do you honestly really believe that?

You are a 'better' person than everyone who's ever had an affair with a married man just because you have not?

How do you define 'better'? Have you never made a mistake you regretted? Who's to say that your mistake was 'worse' or 'better'? What if it came to light that someone like Marie Stopes, or Aung San Kyi had had an affair with a married man? Would you then be a 'better' person than them, despite all that they had accomplished?

I personally have never had an affair with a married man. I'm a recovering alcoholic though and have done many things I regret bitterly (some of which I can't even remember doing) whilst out of my mind on drink. I'm curious as to whether under your rules I now get to feel superior to others? Perhaps I am now as 'good' a person as you?

Because it must be nice, sitting up there, looking down on a sad and vulnerable stranger. Must make you feel really great about yourself.

Tentative wave hello and sorry. So much today to make me sad, I want to ask how to become less naive.

Experience Mrsmorton and even then. I am a naive person I take what people say as the truth and blindly trust that everyone has the same good intentions as me. I've been fucked over quite a lot and now am starting to listen to that voice in my head. Tbh I'd prefer to be naive then overly cynical and never trusting people, IMO people who don't trust don't trust you because they know what they themselves are like.

Mrsm Don't know if it's your sort of thing, but reading up on EQ/emotional intelligence helped me in terms of understanding (and trusting) my own instincts and reactions to situations. You (like everyone) will have some fairly powerful behaviour patterns learned back when you were a little kid - understanding those patterns and how your emotions play into them makes a big difference in breaking bad cycles e.g. why you have a need to please.