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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Support for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships: 13

999 replies

CharlotteCollinsislost · 08/11/2012 09:10

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
www.heart-2-heart.ca/women/page1.htm heart to heart]] a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

OP posts:
CharlotteCollinsislost · 05/12/2012 15:33

Wow, pony - what an absolutely wonderful granddad he is! And couldn't've been a better time to receive it. Suggest you text FW saying, "Great, will pick up the girls on Sunday at __am etc" You could also "interpret" his no to alternate weekends as saying he'd like to see them every other Sunday and not have the intervening Saturdays. Wink Depends how strong you're feeling...

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CharlotteCollinsislost · 05/12/2012 15:41

Leclerc - (I just 'got' your nn!! Xmas Blush Xmas Grin ) lol'ed at your dd's response to his text - she sounds great!

I set up a new bank account today - my running away fund! Was so scared before making the call (expecting awkward questions, I think), but have done it and it was all fine. Can't quite believe it! Can't wait to see the house tomorrow. Pinning all my hopes on it as there isn't much available where I'm looking...

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ponygirlcurtis · 05/12/2012 16:08

Charlotte - he is a wonderful granddad (DS1 preferred him to me for the first few years of his life!!!!! Xmas Envy He was his hero!).

Congratulations about your running away fund, and good luck for tomorrow. Baby steps...!

I texted NSDH exactly as you suggested Xmas Grin. Now I know what he means by 'best to chill with anything else'. Xmas Angry He means he doesn't want me to see the girls at all at the moment. Xmas AngryXmas Sad He said 'no I don't think it's a good idea at the moment'. FW!!!!!!! Still not sure why (or what the 'long term situation' he refers to is), unless he means because he's contacting his solicitors already, before I get the chance to. Feeling pretty confused and upset, seeing him in about half an hour, will have to compose myself.

Shriek · 05/12/2012 18:31

meant to say to Forsale - to give WA another go, I would recommend highly and seen others do too. Unfortunate that 'your' advisor' didn't do it for you, but not all advisors match us so try another, and they would need to put you through to your local ones for regular support.

TheSilverPussycat · 05/12/2012 18:35

Someone explain leclerc's nn to me - am I being thick?

We are going to have an artist in residence at the meditation rooom :) - friend who needs studio space. I explained its virtual function and she is full of ideas!

Glad to hear some good news, and keeping things crossed for tomorrow.

foolonthehill · 05/12/2012 20:03

Silver...you'll have to Google the (??80's) TV comedy "Allo Allo" to find the inimitable spy who was never sufficiently disguised and spent life sidling up behind Renee and say "'tis I leClerc" in a terrible ham French accent!!

CharlotteCollinsislost · 05/12/2012 20:34

Oh, well I feel hugely stupid now - I didn't get it at all! Xmas Blush Xmas Grin Xmas Blush Xmas Grin

pony - oh, what a fw. How well do you know the girls' mother? Just askin'...

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ponygirlcurtis · 05/12/2012 21:46

Charlotte, I contacted the girls' mum after the last assault incident a couple of months ago. She said at that time she'd never stop me seeing the girls.

However, things did not go well this evening. When I arrived, I was obviously not being allowed into the house (as I usually would be), and DS2 was collected from me at the front doorstep. So I just left it, said 'see you in a couple of hours' and went off. When I came back, similar happened - both boys were already had jackets on, waiting for me, and I didn't get further than the doorstep. In fact, at one point, after I asked DS1 to go and find his snowboots to bring back with him, NSDH went to help him look and closed the door in my face (and it happened again, so was no accident). When the boys were in the car, I asked him about this thing with the girls - was it just this weekend, or was it an ongoing thing. He seemed utterly puzzled that I was asking (grrr), said he'd already laid it all out in his emails so I obviously wasn't listening (errrrm, no he didn't). He said if I asked a direct question he'd happily answer it!!!! (Had I not just done that????) Turns out, apparently, that he made it clear no he didn't that there would be no more contact with the girls 'for their sake', because things were pretty much over and I'd be tailing off the contact with them anyway and he wanted to protect them from me doing that. I'm paraphrasing,but that's the essence of what he said.
There was much back and forwards - apparently, all his emails of the last week or so were an invitation for me to fight to see the girls, but because I didn't make any mention of them he took it that I didn't want to. Apparently, it's all my fault because I wouldn't talk, I wouldn't communicate, all I had to do was show an interest in us working on things. Apparently, the fact that I don't see enough change in him is completely at odds with what 'everybody else' thinks. I pointed out to him that 'everybody else' didn't have to deal with him at home, with his temper and abuse, but that wasn't the point. Apparently.
When I was going, he said 'So, is that it?' I said 'I think so'. (a minute later he came and opened the car and demanded that I say yes or no, because he wasn't letting me 'mess him about' any more - I genuinely can't say yes, my heart still wants to be with him but I know it's not possible.).

So, as of tonight ladies, I think I am officially single and looking for a divorce. My head is calmer than I thought it would be, but am expecting it to go bat-shit crazy at some point soon. Am currently sitting in bed eating pizza and drinking wine. I have texted the girls to ask about their weeks (as I usually do), but no idea what to do now. Do I contact their mum? (NSDH said he'd spoken to her too about our situation, so I don't know if she's now changed her mind about what she said before) Do I tell the girls that their dad has decided I can't do anything with them, so they know it's not me not being bothered? I don't want to go behind his back tho.

And so it all begins. When I was going up earlier, I got a knot in my stomach, it reminded me of the ones I used to get when I was about to do a handover with DS1's dad after we first split. I developed IBS throughout that period (another stress illness!). That was an awful, awful time. This is going to be worse.

foolonthehill · 05/12/2012 22:02

CharlotteOf course i may be wrong since tis not me who is leclerc!!! www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZelPcA2Dz2c

TisILeclerc · 05/12/2012 22:12

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TisILeclerc · 05/12/2012 22:14

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Shriek · 05/12/2012 22:14

ooo Pony take it easy, and just think about yourself for the moment, you managed tricky situation very well from what you've said. Brave lady. He will do whatever he will do, nothing for you to do there. TBH if you have a good relationship with their mother I would just email /contact her and say the girls very welcome, would love to see them, etc, he cannot try to control your contact with them. Leave him out of the equation wherever you can whilst he stews in his own juices Xmas Angry.

So glad you asked Silver and thanks for reply Fool I couldn't remember where it came from, but knew i'd heard it somewhere!

when I get IBS Pony i overcame it within a couple of weeks by followin herbalists advice (no stimulants - but that means of course non of the things we like to enjoy on a break! booo - wine, coffee, tea, cigs, spicy things, no fibre) basically back to boiled chicken and rice, sleep and rest) I had some yucky herbal stuff to drink drops of too, but can't remember what now. (It hadn't taken docs years to a) work out what it was, b) try pathetically to cure (no dietary advice atall),, but not!

you've earned your pizza/wine fest.. enjoyy relaxing after hard day's work well done. Xmas Smile

TisILeclerc · 05/12/2012 22:16

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CharlotteCollinsislost · 05/12/2012 22:38

Sounds like your dd1 knows that talk is cheap, LeClerc - but glad FW seems not to have made it harder for her so far, iyswim!

Pony - well, she ought to know him of old, she was in your position x years ago, so hopefully she understands. It is awful to be thinking of going behind his back, but then it's awful that he's brought this situation about - so he's the guilty one, not you or the girls. Presumably he's projecting his own feelings onto you, so are you expecting him to push ds1 away at some point sooner rather than later, probably?

Cheering you on to divorce him. I can't stand your FW! :o

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ponygirlcurtis · 05/12/2012 23:00

I can't stand your FW!

Charlotte, that made me really, really laugh!!!! (partly because I feel the same about all of the FWs on here, yours included!)

Do you know though, when I got home after seeing him, my first thought of what I was going to ask you all was 'Is it me, really? Am I being difficult/uncommunicative/unreasonable?' I still struggle to believe that it's not me ruining everything. Daft, I know, give that I haven't assaulted anyone while they were pregnant, or any of the other afwul things he's done. But he's like a born-again non-smoker now, he's evangelical about how much he's changed and how it's me, but he understands and doesn't hold it against me.

Thanks for all you IBS tips. I really don't want to be afflicted by it again, it was debilitating, I remember being doubled over in a shop last time. (although, Shriek, I'm not sure I can give up pizza and wine, they are my only pleasures! Along with enough chocolate to fell a camel.)

Sad that your DD has lost weight, Leclerc, that's something you shouldn't have to worry about at all. I hope she'll get on a more even keel now, with you FW hopefully at more of a distance.

FWIW, my nephew (who is 14) now only sees his dad when he chooses to, after years of general crapness and fecklessness, culminating in verbal abuse towards him (my nephew) and listening to his dad slag off his mum. It took its toll on him, for sure (completely different situation though), but he's now settled in the relationship, and happy to ignore texts/calls if he decides he doesn't want to speak to him at that time. He sees his dad on his own terms and doesn't let his dad dictate to him any more.

ponygirlcurtis · 05/12/2012 23:25

This is what I can't understand, NSDH is still happy to continue seeing DS1. He even said tonight that DS1 had told him he wishes he could come back here [to our family house] to live! I goggled visibly at that and said that's not what he said to me just last week (when he said he was scared to say it but he didn't want to go back). I can understand that DS1 wants to be back there when everything's nice, NSDH is lovely to be with under those circumstances, happy, creative, making stuff left right a centre (pancakes/benches/Halloween displays - overcompensating much?).

So, I summary, I don't know. I'm not about to say that DS1 can't go up to see him any more, I'm not doing tit-for-tat, and apart from anything else DS1 would be really upset and feel awful and left out. He enjoys going up, enjoys seeing the girls. It's a hard one. Don't know how to handle it. But I am aware that he could get chucked like a hot potato, and I don't want that happening.

tryingsoonflying · 05/12/2012 23:58

Leclerc so glad you are feeling more positive today. So sorry your dd had such a difficult time and I think you have been there for her big time and she won?t ever forget that. Your strength is healing her and helping her to a positive start in life. You?re a great mum and should be proud of yourself. Thanks BTW when I read your fw?s text about ?home pressures? (ha ha HA) my immediate thought was as pony?s, he?s playing arsehole?s ping pong, the fw, please don?t take it to heart. But then I read on and saw you dealt with it beautifully and your dd sounds brilliant, she?s a very clever young lady Smile

Shriek thank you for your kind thoughts Smile

Nini Sad re your dcat, poor little poppet. My fw used to do exactly that ? suddenly turning over just as I was dropping off, etc. Prats.

Pony I think you are such a caring dsm to your dsds and a call/note/text to their dm would not go amiss, as they are possibly being fed the line that you?ve lost interest. Could you just let your fw?s exw know that you are here for girls, want to see them, but he?s playing mind games, can they please be aware your care for them has not changed and whenever they feel like meeting you?ll drop everything? The ex sounds like a decent woman and one who?s been through same mill as you? And on another note, the granddad cheque was just wonderful! How lovely of him ? and clearly your ex?s family think the world of you which speaks volumes about you as a lovely person Thanks Difficult one re your ds1 and contact with nsdh. I see your worries. Isn?t it awful we have to think like this because of these wankers Sad

My FW is being a prat, nothing new but nothing too threatening (after all my scary 5? pensioner dm is here to protect me Wink). But I have now detached to the extent I can suddenly read him, whereas all the pain he inflicted when I still cared muddied the water and I was perpetually puzzled and devastated. Now I just see him as a flawed prat and can understand his motives ? just wish my heart had been harder earlier.

PrincessFionne · 06/12/2012 08:10

NN - along the lines of Shrek but PussInBoots & Princess Fiona/Fi were taken Xmas Sad, but Fi could work as an abbrv. (better than being called Princess, and quicker).

You're welcome Flying, and wonderful to have clarity!!! It is your best friend, I'm really come thro that right now; you've done that really quickly (lots quicker than I did). Not that your heart's harder, just that you see it for the terrible treatment that it is.

PrincessFionne · 06/12/2012 08:14

oooo Pony scary that FW could really drop DS so lightly!!! What a FW and loads besides. These poor kids and the things they have to face up to - good job they ALL have such lovely mummies behind them Xmas Smile

PrincessFionne · 06/12/2012 08:16

Pony possibly only for 2 weeks? - is that manageable pain for potential gain (and lack of pain?!) Xmas Wink

TisILeclerc · 06/12/2012 09:23

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ponygirlcurtis · 06/12/2012 10:03

Thanks trying for those kind words. Hope you are feeling better. I am glad you have detached so much now, but it's a chicken and egg thing. Onwards!

Fi (like it) - thanks, I know you are right, I should try it for a bit and see how I go.

Leclerc - I think you are right to notice and be concerned about these things in your DD, they are signs that she is struggling. But keep doing what you are doing, you couldn't do more. She'll have a good rest over the weekend and then GP on Monday.

This morning, I feel... weird. I feel wracked with guilt and terribly afraid that really I'm the one that's ruined all of this, I haven't tried hard enough (but I know really that it wasn't about me trying). But I still can't shake my guilt. And I spoke to DS1 (while cuddled in bed) this morning about what he said last night, and he said yes he does wish he could go back, but when I reminded him why we left he talked about how he could always hear NSDH shouting at me after he went to bed. I'm confused. I know he loves NSDH very much, he said so, but i think about the boy he is now and the boy he was when we were there, having to knock on doors to enter rooms, very quietly spoken because he was afraid that what he was saying would get him into trouble. I could go on, and on. Sigh. I'm trying to compose an email at the moment that I may or may not send, just trying to get thoughts down more than anything. I still haven't contacted my solicitor - I've written the email, just can't bring myself to click send.
Anyway, off to toddlers to drink tea and try not to cry.

PrincessFionne · 06/12/2012 10:21

Hey LeClerc try not to stress it. She'll need a litle time probably to just think things through. She's finally relaxed and let it out and facing some realities possibly. Wise about school to let her off with the pressure right now. They need one solid person in their lives, and you're it ! Xmas Smile

PrincessFionne · 06/12/2012 10:27

Hey Pony. You were trying! so hard!, and noone would expect any trying towards someone that treated you and your DS this way. So what if everyone thinks its your fault even, you know you're not happy and thats all that matters, and that your DS is scared. Your happy boy is all the proof you need Xmas Smile. Its just the old fear, and the strange new sensation of being in this new place that feels weird, but its ok and you'll get use to it Xmas Smile

CharlotteCollinsislost · 06/12/2012 10:52

Fi - nice nn, like it!

Pony, I guess it must be weird for them to go back to the house and not have all their things round them? Perhaps he just feels a bit disjointed when he's there and doesn't like that feeling? I wonder how that'll be for us - I'm basically going to clear out their rooms when I go and they won't be able to sleep there for a while - they're scared by the house (it's old and their rooms, though lovely, are in the loft and get cold) already; what will they think when they come back to see Daddy?

Anyway, I saw the house this morning, so it all feels too real. I want it to go back to being a nice dream I have, that way I don't have to be the adult and actually do all the stuff that needs doing to get there! It's a small community I'll be putting us in, and though we're already part of it through school, I feel nervous about moving into it. Otoh, it's what I need, to have people close by, easy to drop in on briefly, so that it can be stress- and hassle-free to see friends. The house itself is small, tiny garden compared to what we're used to, but modern, in great order and not scary at all for the dcs. There are rooms for dd1 and dd2; ds and dd3 would be in with me - and there's a loooovely ensuite to that room which I will retreat to when I need a haven!

I can't quite switch into grown-up mode to think what questions need to be asked and what to do next, though...

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