Support for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships: 13

[CharlotteCollinsislost]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
www.heart-2-heart.ca/women/page1.htm heart to heart]] a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Don't feel guilty, Nini. Sorry to hear you're back into studying stress time again, but definitely prioritise that. The outlaws inlaws won't be in your life for ever.

Ooh, new smileys!

I think you are all talking a lot of sense about the holiday situation. Shriek, that's a great idea, talking around the issue like that - I don't think I'd think fast enough to do that myself, but it's something to aim for! Wish I had some of your wisdom... I tried talking to the older dds about the holiday and what they were looking forward to about it, to get an idea of why they'd said yes. Productive conversation with dd1: her main motivation is that fw said one of his friends really wants to see her and dd2. That'd be guilt, then. I told her that was very selfless and a lovely reason. She wanted to know if it was a good or bad answer; I said I wasn't thinking in those terms: it's good because she's thinking of others, but it could be sad if she might have more fun for herself at home. She said no no to that, but I think she doesn't like anything negative, so wouldn't want to be associated with 'sad'. DD2 just got very upset and wanted me to go too so that she wouldn't have to choose. This is what happened last time and I ended up going, but I really don't like holidays with or organised by fw and they happen sooo often I need a break before tackling the next one.

I'm not sure if I should mention some ideas about what we could do at home if they stayed with me, or if that makes it into a competition of who's the favourite parent and makes it more stressful for them. Just really don't know what to do.

Add to that the complication that this is February we're talking about, and there's a chance we will have left home by then, altering all the dynamics dramatically - but I can't let on about that to anyone at this stage.

I seem to be waffling something chronic tonight. I think it's because I feel rather out of my depth with the whole thing.

It looked rather cold without its hat!

WRONG ONE!

Ah Nini - you were given an option, and you made the wrong choice! That old classic. How nice of him to give you options, rather than it being an unsaid thing that of course you can make your own choices about whether to go along or not.

Awwww, where'd the Scottish smileys go!!!! Oh well, time for a .

ooo nini.... Don't reckon its worth feeling any loyalty or guilt about, when they've made it so obvious that they don't want to be friendly to you

Charlotte, that is a tough one. By the sounds of it, the DDs have been manipulated a bit into agreeing to go. But you're right, you don't want to turn it into a push-pull situation. You know what? If you are gone by February, and the DDs decide that they don't want to go, FW will be annoyed sure, but it wont be the end of the world. He can still go, and by the sounds of it goes on lots of holidays. Certainly don't stay until they've been on this holiday, just so that they can go.

Quick update on my day: I slept! for about 2.5hrs. Felt ker-rappy when I woke up but feeling the benefit now. NSDH dropped off the boys (which is strange in itself, I normally pick them up, which meant that because he was a bit late I was starting to panic that he wasn't going to bring them back). All fine, I was being determinedly nice, as was he. He looked like the bountiful kind person because he gave me some pizza, cakes, etc leftover from the party. But in reality he just doesn't want them in the house because he's trying to lose weight and would rather foist it all on me so I have to deal with restraining myself rather than him. (He did this at Halloween too with all his leftover guisers sweets.)
Then he made a comment another one about me coming up to the house and sorting my stuff out. I said I'd probably rather bag up my clothes from my wardrobe myself. He said that in that case he needed to be there (dig number 3 for the day). And then he said he'd magically found my tax disc. (If it was a genuine oversight, it means he's not bothering to pass on my mail any more, at the very least.)

He is taking control of our situation, making out that he's done all he can to save us but now I'm being a bitch and attacking him and refusing to see that he's changed. Been feeling pretty low all evening.

Tonight is the first Saturday night since I moved to the flat that I haven't had a glass or two of wine. I just feel too sad even for wine. Never mind. Putting the Christmas tree up tomorrow. Am determined not to let this bastard grind me down.

No way! Viewing that house on Thursday - so hoping it comes off!

But funny you should say that, as we have another holiday booked at Easter to see both his sisters who live a long way away (from us and each other!). Flights were booked a few weeks back and I'd really like to go to see them (the other bits I could do without). I really really don't know what will happen or even what I want to happen. I know of one person who goes on holiday with her abusive ex and their kids, but don't know the reasons and don't know her well enough to ask. Maybe it would work? We took two rooms in each hotel the last holiday and fw and I managed to avoid sharing a room except when we were staying in friends' houses! We could do that again. But all the travelling time, which is immense (there are huge distances being covered and three hours' travelling time is a "light" day in fw's book...) would most likely be incredibly stressful.

I have been putting off thinking about this but I will have to at some point!

Charlotte hmmm.. I do thank you for your compliment, but ha, theres a but, in our situations it seems awful difficult to feel in any way wise! but very kind to say that. All these wise words everyone has, given freely to others and impossible to take for ourselves at least sometimes.

The situation I spoke of was some deep unhappiness I had detected over some weeks. DC coming home anxious and argumentative, etc, just a pattern I noticed, and there was something about the words in the arguments that I decided to believe myself about having understood maybe what might be happening. Then decided, another day, to contrive a conversation, I was mightily relieved to have provided the opportunity to let it come out as it did relieve so much tension, and started the talking. It was slow evolving thing. That instant knowing what I mean is something I have to work on after so many many years of cross wiring! (Spaghead)

For your holiday, I would suggest it might be time to say in front of all that noboyd minds who goes and who doesn't as Dad is happy to take anyone that wants to go, and you're happy to have any at home that want to stay and don't fancy a trip, as there'll always be another along pretty soon so NO PRESSURE!, and walk off not asking them to choose there and then but stating in front of all that as you are definitely staying at home they are free to be in either place, AND THAT WE'RE ALL GROWN UP ADULTS HERE SO WE'RE GOING TO BE VERY HAPPY TO ACCEPT DECISIONS EITHER WAY, its not a popularity competition, its just a holiday for those that would like, or those who want to choose to remain at home then fine (this also gives 5 yr old his opportunity to say too) - cos this way holiday is still going ahead, whether some/all kids go or not, so children have a lovely choice with NO REPERCUSSIONS and he'll have to think about why any don't want to go, that absolutely mustn't be forced which he can see is fair can't he of course he can

Just going to hte point about why DD1seemed happy to go; sad it wasn't for her own reason (I want to see them again), but only that they wanted to see her and DD2. the right/wrong answer response speaks volumes I think about the pressure she perceives/pleasing again.
What do you think?

great attitude Pony - absolutely, don't let the bastard grind you down. You have your own wonderful space, and time for christmas trees tomorrow good thoughts.

... and about the other stuff, if you didn't want his leftovers you can still be polite (I've finally gone past thinking I have to be nice anymore, or apologise for stuff as he's not my friend and I don't respect him) and just state, I can't take your leftovers as I've planned tonights food, etc. any excuse. Its a bit rude to assume someone wants your leftovers really.

my friends know me and I only listen to what they have to say to me about me, not someone who has axes to grind and feels entitled and superior to me.... nah!

I like that approach, Shriek. It makes a lot of sense. It would, though, be dependent on FW being sensible and mature about it, and the kids knowing he'd be like that and so feeling able to make their own choice without fear of him sulking/chucking his toys out of the pram.

Ha, Shriek, he made sure everything was bagged up and DS1 was carrying it so it wasn't possible. And although he dropped the boys off at nearly 6pm, they hadn't had dinner (!), and he dressed it up as 'leftover pizza for DS1's dinner, and some for you too' - he knows I love pizza. Next time, though...

Oooooh, I love that, about not listening to people's opinions if they have an axe to grind and are superior. Spot on. I need to remember that.

thank DS1 and take the bag, send him indoors saying you're just coming and then to FW "shame you went to that trouble, I have dinner all sorted here, save yourself the trouble next time and just call to ask; did you want to take it back to bin it, or just leave it on the doorstep and I'll stick it in the bin later?" ha ha ha ha blloody ha Pony...

yeah, absolutely about the relying on sensible and mature (I wondered about that, but from what Charlotte is saying there's not abuse to them). A kind of state it for all to hear and leave - no reply necessary, just to think about kind of thing (including FW!).

Many of things that struck a chord most with me are WA advice, and I think 'but he's not your friend' might have been one.

Shriek - yes, I think you're right about dd1 and feeling pressure. I think I sometimes parrot some of fw's subtle fwery too when I'm stressed or tired, so the pressure may come from two directions I do apologise, though, if I notice myself doing it.

I also wonder if they like the idea of a holiday because they want to be like him, so that he'll think more highly of them or they'll feel closer to him? But even if that's true, they probably wouldn't be aware of it.

I'm worried about them. DD1 at 9yo is still bedwetting ("Daddy makes it clear he thinks it's my fault"); dd2 grinds her teeth in her sleep; ds has recently started soiling himself during the day again (and that's with fw away). Could be a genes thing as fw had these sorts of issues in childhood - then again I'm wondering these days if his df was emotionally abusive back then.

I think there is abuse to them... but I don't think they're aware of it. The manipulation, the minimising, the dismissiveness, the lack of interest - that's their life. They've not known any different. I didn't see it for years, after all!

I'm pretty sure he would sulk and blackmail - I shall think of it as throwing toys from pram to help me stay detached!

Oh Charlotte, what a worry for you. I would seriously wonder if his father was abusive too, I don't know if all of these things could be put down to genetics. But the alternative, that they have been affected by his abuse, is awful to contemplate, I know.

Maybe slightly TMI, but I was a late bedwetter, and I went through all sorts of tests to find something wrong with me, they found nothing. Personally, I think it was a self-esteem thing and confidence thing, certainly emotional (from all the reading I've been doing, I can see how emotionally detached from me my mum was in my childhood, and how I felt my needs were not important, certainly not compared to my younger sister's, so I've been thinking about this anyway, and whether they are linked). I eventually stopped, but then I got jumped at school by some other girls (I was aged about 13 I think) and it started up again for a short while.

Keep your eyes on the prize - and that house on Thursday.

oh gosh thats all anxiety stuff; I think I'd want to actively contrive choice opportunities for them all the time, simple things... making stuff, or art stuff is a great thing to do where you can all do your own levels of work, and put out choices of materials to use, and not interefere atall in their work, even when asked for help, to emphasise that each of you have different art in you, etc. and its whats in you thats important not what someone else says. and its lots of fun to do with no responsibility for helping them, you do your own too. Anytime you're worried have an art day/time with lots of fun together sharing different materials. Create a gallery of all their amazing works on a wall for friends to compliment them on when they come in or to just enjoy for themselves and be proud of their creations.

The bedwetting can be medical and that explained to DD1 that its something that is out of her conscious control but there definitely are ways of helping her to get dry again (can run in families, either because of neuro stuff, or emo, and might just need a bit of help retraining) I would try to show support straight away to work together with her to resolve as the longer it goes on the worse the embarrasment (humiliation loss of self-esteem) for her. We won't worry about what 'DADDY' thinks arsehole we know that other people don't think the same as daddy about these things!

Are you in touch with WA or your doc/health visitor, family centre, anything like that? Sounds like you are all suffering terribly, just needs finding the right help to turn things around for the children, if he's affecting them this bad that move can't come soon enough. You might find as soon as they have a good distance, and their own safe space, things will improve or can do quite quickly.

grab fun together wherever you can and keep giving them freedom to rely on their own choices (this is not to say atall that you are not already doing all and more, better than). so hoping you can get out and this viewing is gonna be lucky for you, keep viewing and viewing till move.

He's an adult regardless of delinquent juvenile behaviour or his background (if hes been subjected to all this too he needs to be responsible to get himself help to change).

well teeth grinding is often attributed to teeth problems, recent dental work, poor 'bite' contact, jaw alignment, but equally emo.

take care of yourself and your lovely children

FW back to being fw, didn't take long . Upstairs it's freezing and I am just out of hospital, so I asked him to get the plug in heater from shed for when I am in room and chilly. He asked what on earth I was thinking of, those things costs about £8 a day to run yeah I was going to leave it on all day, not just switch it on in extreme cold, right. Thank you once more "D"H for refocusing me.

Sorry, not responded to others yet, feeling really really low and not coping brilliantly. Hope to be feeling more normal tomorrow.

Ohhh Charlotte sorry to hear about DD1. You might not want to hear this as may confirm your fears but I had issues with bed wetting until I was about 10. My dad was an expert in EA-to my mum and me and DBro our whole lives. I used to try and hide it by not sleeping until everyone had gone to bed and then I used to sleep on the floor on a towel so I only wet the towel and not my bed, then would pretend I'd used the towel the next morning and put it in the wash I just remember being very mixed up at that age, I guess trying to make sense of things going on at home and not really understanding why my dad behaved like he did or what we had done so wrong for him to be like that. Fast forward 25 years and here I am stuck in a similar situation all over again-for the last 13 years except with a FW that's topped my dad by also using physical, sexual and financial abuse (and my bladder control is a bit better now!) My DBro has also been in a similar relationship but now now free. Everytime I lose sight of my escape plan I chat with my DBro about our childhoods and it spurs me on even more for my DCs sake. I think for children involved in abuse relationships it can go either way when they grow up, they can either become an abuser themselves OR like me and DBro seem to fall for someone very very similar to our father, perhaps trying to gain approval/love etc from them, something we feel we failed to get from our dad. My dad is now ex-EA but still let's slip every now and then. Hate is a strong word, but me and my DBro really do feel that for him, he didn't just affect our childhoods but most of our adult lives too indirectly. We are hoping next year will be the turning point for us both, to heal and move on eventually along the years ahead finding a partner each that is nothing like our fathers or FWs. Sorry ladies, just got a bit deep there! Hope all is ok with you all? Love and strength to you all

Trying get well soon my lovely take it easy and take care of yourself physically and emotionally. Hopefully back on your feet soon xx

Maggie I was so to read what you said about your childhood and your hiding the bedwetting. Poor little girl. And charlotte much sympathy and compassion for you and your dd1.

Thanks for good wishes, Maggie

[christmas tree]

I hope they had a good w/e charlotte and I am so glad you had a lovely peaceful time at your mum's. Ah yes, I get the "eating again?" with an incredulous grin that can't be answered back to without a laughing "Whaaat?"