Support for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships: 13

[CharlotteCollinsislost]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
www.heart-2-heart.ca/women/page1.htm heart to heart]] a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

the only answer is your ds'. He says no, then its no.

x-posted that with your Pony... mine in response to seeing the explanation posting. That when leaving mum is concerned (have I got that right, and going alone with abusive FW he'd be scared about that right?). I have never allowed more than a night or 2 away when knowing there was another family also with young children, but that wasn't the best even then :/

I don't think he should know that his was the final word tho, only that his view is always looked for, important and certainly considered. For my DC there is no question that a 'no' would mean it doesn't happen despite others wishes and no matter who they wanted to show off DC to

I think no. Mostly because ds said no, but I have other concerns, too. The argument is by email as fw is away on a mercifully long trip; it's the holiday that fw thinks would teach ds vital lessons about how unimportant he is... [bhmm]

The latest email is eminently reasonable; "I'd really like..." standing out to me as his usual tactic of expressing a strong preference, thereby leading me to think that I don't feel that strongly, I should give in, just this once [bhmm] and what's the harm? This time, though, I'm detached and thinking I HAVE to stick to my guns for ds's sake: I gave him the choice and I am NOT going to take it away from him because fw's been whining louder! And I'm also interested to see what happens when I don't give in... especially as he's out of the country, so I feel no physical threat!!

Yes, he'd be going without me, but I don't know if he'd be scared with FW. More likely bored and frustrated. DD1 and DD2 have opted to go (not realising they were afterthoughts in FW's mind); I'm not fearful for them. I don't think they think his behaviour is anything other than normal and acceptable: he has programmed them to believe that Daddy spends time with us as a treat, not an assured loving regular contact, just when work or friends or house improvements or sleep don't get in the way. :( They accept this; they think that is how all daddies are.

I think they might benefit from 'chats' about how different things are in other families where love is an action all in its presence absolutely know and feel. I think its important that you demonstrate he absolutely isn't the most important person in all your lives because he isn't. Challenge their thinking about that. There must be some good books around this, or appropriate films that show other families behaving that you can state as 'normal' whatever that is anyway but that might cause them to ask you a bout differences.

If they see you being fearful, or reacting in subordinate ways in order to appease, it is very unhealthy for them. Aprt from the obvious of his reasoning to prove to him 'he's not important'!!! whats all that about then?

Has he never shown any abusive behaviour to them; you know they are completely safe? and your DS not scared in any way? At the end of the day thats difficult cos I think in those circumstances people do make decisions for the children if its just a lack of enthusiasm (is it?) - if its in their interests [the DC] to.

"Chats" may not speak as loudly to them as my current actions in accepting the abuse and prolonging it by staying... but I hope that when I (we) leave him, they will feel freer to question his behaviour, and then the chats will have more weight, especially if I can make sure they have good male role models.

It's a difficult one: I don't feel DS would be scared as such, but maybe insecure, being looked after by someone who might not prioritise his needs? Or maybe happily oblivious to all that, and I'm projecting! Even if I were convinced he was (or they were) safe going away with fw, no, I can't see how it's in their interests. FW's current argument is that when he was a child, he was dragged unwillingly around the world to see people he'd never got on with, only to strike up a lasting friendship - so let's drag ds unwillingly in the same way, just in case the same happy outcome occurs again. It's laughable as a justification!

maybe a couple more questions just to establish where the 'no' comes from... but at the end of the day if you are concerned for his feelings of insecurity you say no. yeah absolutely laughable agreed.

I only know the FWittery that I have experienced and children treated same as me when FW lost it, nothing stops him (inside the home), I never knew him do it to anyone outside the home. although done it to me /us out. So I don't think I get that you FW can be selective and only do it to you; would he be carefully hiding the child abuse from you? How do they react if he moves suddenly or shouts for example?

The argument that he needs to know his feelings 'count for nothing' (I may be stating it a bit strongly there) sounds a bit like the old fashioned idea of doing things you hate because they are 'character building'. And he is only 5 FFS

Ohh Charlotte poor DS, I think you are right saying no. I always ask and value my DDs opinion and she is only 3 years old. They are so very young but they are not stupid, they may not see the FW abuse we get directly but they know it goes on to an extent. My DD thought all daddies were like her daddy too-same as your FW, takes them out as a treat or when I've nagged him instead of wanting and looking forward to spending time with them. I've tried to explain to her the best she can understand that its not but at the same time try not to turn her against her dad-at the moment he is doing a fine job of that all by himself!

I would say stick to your guns on this one, the last thing you need is a DS upset and sad when away. FW (if anything like mine) may take it out on you when they return. As don't you know all FW children have to be like performing seals when on show to others grrrr!!

What is your FWs reason for going on this holiday? Will be be spending the whole time with the other family and have you known them for long? Sorry for all the questions!

Love from, The shite sofa insomniac x

hey Maggie from another shite sofa insomniac! Actually I just have the night off (well the remainder of it anyway!) so I'm doing xmas shoppng while DC is away this weekend.

The more I hear about others' Fw's the more I realise the FW standards. The performance thing that you mention. Its so awful that they learn to perform too as a result of the rage that comes after if there's anything less that tip top standards of smiles/politeness and appeasing everyone else. Jeez. I hate it.

I think Charlotte that taking your kids away with someone you only met for a few months a year ago is also a bit weird, don't you think?

Hope all is ok for those I have noticed have not checked in for a while Yummy and Trying thinking of you and hoping that you are both safe and doing ok?

FW loves holidays. Lives for travelling. We parents knew each other longer, but the two boys didn't see each other well enough to get beyond the checking-each-other-out stage to the playing-together stage each time we met! FW says he knows they didn't get on well together, but yy character-building, yadda yadda. He'll spend two days with that family and two days with another friend of his and his family, the rest will be travelling between places (Sweden and Finland).

Basically, he wants to travel and see his friends, but dress it up as doing something for the dcs, and undo a little of the damage I cause them by not ensuring a hectic enough social schedule for them. [bhmm] conveniently overlooking the fact that he's planning this for a halfterm holiday week when the dcs could otherwise be playing with their current friends at home

Morning all. Am not doing so good today. [bsad] Warning: long rant ahead.

NSDH came to pick up DS2 this morning as usual. I'd asked him to bring DS1's E45 cream but he couldn't find it. Instead, he brought the whole baby box full of medicines and toiletries, handing it to me saying 'you might as well have this here, we need to start clearing your stuff out anyway'. Dig number 1 (he's already mentioned clearing my stuff out this week on text).

He is having a party for DS2 today. DS1 goes to football on a Saturday morning, so I started saying 'So I'll bring DS1 up after football...' but he just talked over the top of me: 'I'll drop DS2 off this evening at 5.30pm, ok?' I said: what about DS1, do you not want me to bring him up? NSDH said 'It's up to you, what do you want to do.' Dig number 2.
This reeeeally pissed me off. He's trying to make out that I am in some way stopping DS1 from going up and seeing them all. He did this on Tuesday eve as well, on DS2's birthday, talking about me dropping off DS2 and making no mention of DS1, so then I have to ask, and he gets to be all 'it's up to you', as if it's me making a big deal about it.

I'll hold my hands up. I didn't handle this well. I was up 4 times with DS2 last night (as I have been every night for about two weeks). I am still smarting after the 'discussions' we've had this week. So when he said 'It's up to you' I rolled my eyes and huffed. When NSDH asked why I was being like that, I said 'Because you are being a bit of an arse.' [bblush] And then I saw that I'd played right into his hands. He gave a little smile and immediately said, no, it's you that's an arsehole, and more or less drove off there and then.

Then the texts. Txtd me saying I was out of order, I was attacking him again. I responded saying it was as simple as: do you want DS1 to come up or not. His response said he wasn't going to tell me what to do with DS2, I'd made it clear [how???] that it was up to me. Told me my double standards are the problem, said I was just looking for an argument and he wasn't 'falling for it again'. (He used to say this kind of thing a lot, tell me could see what games I was playing, and that I wouldn't win.)

I just said fine, I'll bring him up, he responded that's fine. Then I burst into hysterical tears (on my own in the flat by now). I cried and cried. How can he be like this? After everything he's done to me? How can he sleep at night???

And then, the kicker: he texted saying: 'No apology from you then?' I was so down, so hysterical, so on the floor that I actually texted back 'I'm sorry' on a numb autopilot. Nothing from him since then, obviously.

I know I'm not dealing with this well. His abusiveness has moved from overt physical threatening and verbal abuse, into much more subtle underhand and undermining abuse that's more difficult for an outsider to see. He's trying really hard to set this up as me being the problem, I can totally see it, and he's doing a good job. I don't know what to do. I know I need to stay calm and stop getting riled up in front of him, as it's just playing into his web. I can see the next stage is going to be him trying to turn the girls against me, or saying that I can't see them.

And I'm crying again because I can't see how I have any choice but to go down the official divorce line now. I don't want to. But I think I have to. And he's going to be a nightmare, he'll be just awful, I know it. It's nothing but upset ahead.

I am one very [bsad] little Scottish person today.

ponygirl first well done for holding onto the tears till you were alone. Secondly, don't put yourself down for doing your half of the dance of abuse. You are seeing the steps very clearly, and that is half the battle.

Why don't you want to divorce? Are you still hoping? Yes he'll probably be a nightmare but isn't he now? And then it will be officially over.

Oh Silver, I don't know. I am still hoping I guess, still wanting to just bloody shake him and say 'look, stop being a complete dickhead, we could have a nice life together if you'd treat me with some respect, I am a good person, please be nicer to me!'

And yes he's a nightmare at the moment, but only half the time. If we go official, I think he'll ramp up into full on nightmare all the time, and it's overwhelming to think of dealing with that. But I know that this way it means there's an end at some point (or at least a status quo); without it, this just goes on and on and on and on... Thanks for responding, I feel a bit less hysterical now I've cleaned the bathroom and got some excess frustrations out on the toilet!

Right, off to take DS1 up to the house. Let's see what happens...

Hi lovely ones. Shriek thank you for thinking of me I have been in hospital again and am totally wearied- out but health wise all ok and on mend now. FW being supportive which tangles with my head but is also a relief as dealing with fwittery right now would be impossible.

Haven't caught up properly coz only phone in hospital and sleeping a lot but Pony so sorry to read how you are being hurt, manipulated and shaken by FW. Just remember if you can how much you've achieved and how much you're worth. Support and warmth over ether to you. And everyone. Xxx

Hey trying, glad you're ok, we were wondering if you were. Glad FW being supportive, try and put the spag-heady to one side for now and just focus on getting better, and if he wants to help with that, it's blinking well the least he can do! It's a drop in ocean of his 'debt' to you (have been reading Lundy again...). Thanks for your warm thoughts, sending them back to you as well. [bsmile]

And thanks Leclerc - you're right, I do not want to toe any lines ever again! I think that might be a good idea what you suggest about establishing all arrangements in advance. I think I'm going to suggest that we do alternate Saturdays and Sundays - he prefers a Sunday (because the girls go home at lunchtime so he has company/distraction for the afternoon), but then it means I don't get to take DSs to my mum's for the family Sunday dinner. Does that sound reasonable?

And I might contact my solicitor on Monday. Last time I contacted her was when NSDH assaulted me and wouldn't give DS2 back two months ago, she urged me to report it and of course I didn't because I have jammie dodgers for brains [bbiscuit]. It's too late to do it now, from a divorce POV it would just look like I was doing it for revenge, I think. But maybe I'll ask her what she thinks.

Just been up to drop DS1 at the house. I decided to go in and see the girls for a minute, and also had to ask NSDH if my tax disc had come. He claims it hasn't. Not sure I believe him (and if he's lying, [bshock])... But anyway, he then more or less showed me the front door, indicating I should go. Sigh. But did see this: he had got DSD2 to blow up loads of balloons for the party, which were lying on the floor of the living room. Of course, DSs wanted to kick them about. DSDs were joining in, having fun batting them about. One burst. NSDH stomps in and tells them they are not allowed to jump around with the balloons in the living room. Killjoy!!! Why have them if no-one is allowed to play with them? He's the fun-police. Gah.

So now I have a truly free afternoon and no idea what to do!!! Sleep. I could sleep. That's what I'll do. Seems such a waste of a nice afternoon, and when there's housework etc to do. But man, I'm knackered!!!

Sleep is good! Not a waste at all.

I totally have to agree with LeClerc about the setting up contact by email Pony, and giving yourself space to deal with how you receive each email b4 responding. As sometimes it can takes days to unravel the emotions around it so that you can be clear to respond in the benefit of the child. Which also reminds me to say, its how much is enough for DC, as adults will not know what is enough or not for their DC. The DC might only want to be there on a saturday morning for example and think thats enough. or for once a month. It depends on the child, and they dictate that and must feel in control of the right amount of contact for them (even from those thoughts expressed on here one can tell that the kids absolutely know how much time is enough for them and as long as they feel very free to express that they will - they can't work out why they know, or whether it makes sense, but they're very straightforward like that). If they tell you how much, you have no part in it (so you can't feel guilty or bad or anything, just that its what theyneed, propose that for the short-term (to be kept under review in case sentiments change - its too much or not enough).

As far as police report, I didn't do mine on the day either. I think I would want it recorded, do you have witnesses to any injuries (I'm not saying you have to, cos generally noone does witness, but friends may have noticed bruising, or your evident upset at that time). Those that manage abuse situations know that often its so difficult or impossible to report, this is what happens. I'd suggest you do it, and don't worry that it would be seen in any particular way. It is was it is, you accepted as normal for so long and lightbulb went off etc.

Hey Trying! Lovely to hear from you, lots of wishes for speedy peaceful recovery, push him from your healings thoughts right now. all that can go on a while til you are ready for the next round , ding ding!

Stay with your own voice Pony. This is the stuff you tell us, keep hearing it for yourself as you know what he's doing, the way he's manipulating as you've told us, and thats regardless of what he says. What he says doesn't make sense to me probably others too, thats why it doesn't make sense to you. Don't try to make sense of it, just stay with your own voice thats telling you he's wrong.

Charlotte I do agree absolutely that actions speak louder than words but whilst you are subject to his actions and feel best not to act back in the way they would view as healthy better to have chats around boundaries and what is healthy and good. I have said it before I know, sorry stuck record but stories are one of the best ways for them to think and draw comparisons with their own situations, and ways of handling, etc. Fairly recently DC got very unhappy, down, difficult to manage, and I suspected the issue. I contrived a conversation with a friend about the suspected situation [but in respect to a different family] and then had the the conversation within hearshot, and straight away I got one response 'thats happening to me', and then another 'my dad does that', and 'its depressing me'. This way I found to be non-threatening in the way that children often find it hard to hear one parent talking of the other negatively in any context and can make them just want to defend. One I'll b using again soon.

Curtis, hope you managed to enjoy your free afternoon Sleep is good! Agree that things with your FW should be done via email to lessen the headfuckery. And there's no need to feel ashamed about crying, it can be a great way to blow off steam.

trying thinking of you while you recover

NSDH came home last night with tickets for us to see my fave comedian, which was a total surprise and not like him at all. I was so chuffed. Until...........this morning when he says that he wants to go see his evil, vicious, hideous nan who hates me tomorrow as its nearly her birthday. And he's given me the often of going or not. I said I'd like to stay home to really crack on with my studying as my next exam is after xmas, which obviously was the wrong thing to say as he's now angry with me.

My Inlaws have always been horrible to me, every single one of them. I can't stand them and used to put myself through so much stress when being forced to see them over the years. Until DD was born and I put my foot down about not going. Not once have any of them asked after me. But I havn't seen her since I was pregnant 2 years ago and she made comments about my bumpbeing too small which freaked me out. So now I feel really guilty.