Support for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships: 13

[CharlotteCollinsislost]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
www.heart-2-heart.ca/women/page1.htm heart to heart]] a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

LeClerc isn't preaching about being honest with people and acknowledging that we don't know how to deal with things/people/situations properly all the time, as a preacher their role is to be the first to lay bare the human condition for all to see and find good ways to be in the eyes of god, to tell people your wrongs and ask for forgiveness (hmmmm).

Thank you. Part of me still thinks I'm making a mountain out of a molehill - but hey, I'm doing it anyway! [bgrin]

Was thinking this morning how impossible it will be for FW ever to change, as he doesn't really understand what the problem is... when, bam! An email arrived to show that he does totally understand at least what part of the problem is. He basically said: "This (minimising of dc's feelings) is part of the problems you've been having with me, isn't it? But in this case, I think ds's feelings really aren't a big issue, because blah blah blah..." So close, and yet so far!

sometimes charlotte they 'feel' like huge mountains just to get the simplest, smallest [molehill] climbed!

Well, it's taken 13 years of climbing up this molehill to get high enough to see the view - so I guess you could be right!

That house I wanted (the unfurnished one) is back on the market! Have sent an email to arrange a viewing. I have butterflies!!

Charlotte an excellent example there of seeming to understand - and then immediately going on to minimise DC's feelings.

Fingers crossed re house :)

its all about courage of convictions within boundaries to my mind, and for us finding where ours are and how far we can step forward and take some control back. for instance in my situation FW not seeing DC due to pathetic excuse, but I have had to experience the exact same situation that he claims as a valid reason, so I could in all honesty turn around and say, well you won't ever see DC again then on that basis because I have to experience that too [and for the one who's been abused is extremely unpleasant so don't understand what the problem is for him exactly!??!]. I know, sorry, cryptic.

lovely analogy (are we all standing hihg enough on our mountainous molehills to see the view? - waving victory flags)

Brave decision, Shriek. Did he back down at that point? I find it so difficult to say no to FW when he's being unreasonable (partly because there's no point, but mostly because I can't do it). I'm saying no to him at the moment in the situation with ds I described above - it's the first time for what feels like for ever and I'm finding it very hard, but proud of myself for standing up to him, if only for a moment!

Hi all, sorry for neglecting. FW back to his old tricks of staying out until 2am onwards-has happened for the last 2 nights now. Have his bloody dad and stepmum arriving for a week in an hours time, house is a tip, I am a tired enotional wreak and DS seems to have a weird fluffy thing going on with his hair today! Time to give myself a kick up the bum, 60min makeover on house and us and paint poker face on. This was the next part of my plan, dropping hints to his dad etc about his behaviour but don't want them to see me or the house as the wreak as know FW could turn the situation around on me. Just wish I felt more alive, am like a zombie. Hope they don't arrive early-eeccckkk!! Write properly later ladies, always thinking of you all x

this is where my quandry with lines comes in, because of the abuse DC should not be party to, but he is evidently ok about that being witnessed. At what point (as I had walked out the house - the point of separation) taking DC away from the abuse, should DC's ever be subjected to that again, how's the benefit distributed with unreliable/inconsistent/passive aggressive/raging/random/undermining/head scrambling/behaviours to note jus a couple! Should I say, no, you cannot see again? Although I could claim that excuse he's just used it would be too pathetic for words, sometimes it difficult, end of. - but we don't do it for us, we do it for the children so we have to do difficult things. Nothing would please me more than for him to disappear off the planet, but do the children want that? They want to see mummy & daddy and take whatever is given, even if they don't understand it. I am doing a damage limitation thing, which is understood and condoned by WA, but is only logical really to those who have an understanding of what happens to a person's brain under these circumstances (spaghetti - although acknowledged to be a very real damaging effect of abuse is not the scientific term! - but there must be one, because it very real), where mothers want DC to be happy/see fathers, but take steps to cut out the bits where damage would most likely occur.

Charlotte I know my voice was tiny and I wasn't listening to it all the time, and certainly not acting on it, but it was there so I know that its possible to know what's ok for us, its letting that voice grow and be heard - why does that scare us so? So frightened to be heard. Do it again! I think its like a phobia where one sees the object of irrational fear, but is encouraged to go with it and watch it, get closer, touch it. but one does not touch if it can bite/poisonous causing physical damage, but wears protective gloves. The more you do it the convincing it is that it is ok. but having the courage of convictions comes first, and here everyone is trying to work out if 'its ok' to do something, am I right or wrong.

SORRY! WELL OVERLONG POSTING.

Charlotte well done you for saying NO. It is so hard when you are used to being agreeable and going along with things for a quiet life. I have been reading This classic book on Assertiveness and trying to practise some of the exercises and I am so hopeless at them.

I do a mixture of passive aggressively opting out by not turning up and sullenly going along with things people expect of me. I realise it wasnt just with FW it is all of my life. Work and friends and hobbies and church and everything! I am a bit stunned and going to have to think about it all now.

I cant even say no to people I dont like or care about. Aaaaaargh

oh, but I am going to add another something despite fomer apology!, that if they see who we really are and we are so horrible, awful, bad, mad what does that make them, 'cos they are still with us!!! shouldn't they leave this awful person? So maybe we keep telling them, yea, we have own opinions that definitely disagree with yours, and we do things they hate, we're so awful we make them throw and smash things, we make them lose control, and they hate it when 'we don't listen to them or do as we're told', so, remind me, why are you still here FW???

try not to be despondent lemon, our society teaches in many ways (including historically) that its polite, and we're good girls, etc. and still today we have to watch our children are not just trying to do that all the time, especially with such consequences.

Maggie ohw for you in a low place. Isn't is ok for them to see your life is awful right now, is their holiday more important that your life, really? Do you think they would be cross with you, or imagine you to be any of the things your FW might have convinced you you are? Wouldn't they just want to help you and DC and just wonder what on earth has gone wrong and step in?

take care hugs and hugs (most important - you absolutely MUST get a grip of weird fluffy hair situation for goodness sake girl!) [bwink]

Have put that book in my Amazon basket, Lemon - might be good cheap therapy once I'm in my own place!

Nodding along to your quandary, Shriek - it seems worse on the dcs in a way, after we leave, because although their time with fw is limited, when they are with him we're not around to do any damage limitation/attempt at protection.

Hoots mon, will ye loooooooook down the railtrack at the fab Scottish smileys???? I love [bbiscuit]. I need these all the time! [bwink]

Charlotte, I think that's part of the problem, is that at some point all our FWs have had moments of clarity where they've seemed to recognise what they are doing. As normal people, if we saw that we were doing something as dreadfully upsetting and hurtful as they are, we'd immediately stop. That's what we expect them to do, so we get all excited that they're changing. But they're not. They seem to have some USS Enterprise-level shield around them that sometimes allows things to get through, but for the most part everything just bounces off.
Well done for standing up and saying no to him. Let's see how he reacts...

Sending you hugs, Maggie and Shriek. Maggie, hope you get through the weekend ok, just keep detaching and taking yourself off out the room. Shriek, that's interesting about the voice, I had one too, but it was also tiny and although I could hear it I didn't think I would be able to listen to it so I was very conflicted with myself. Frightened to be heard and desperate to be heard at the same time.

Lemon, I recently bought a book on assertiveness too, but haven't got very far into it (it's quite dense and small text, not good for night-time reading when eyes already very tired). Might take a look at this one, thanks.

And one more for good luck.

[bgrin]

Although I look more like

[bblush]

Och ayeeeee!

Thanks Ladies [bgrin] the fluffy head situation is under control and house and me looking ok, stayed in all afternoon -FW took afternoon off work and guess what - they didn't turn up. This is what frequently happens when they come to stay in town (they stay at FWs aunties house/FILs sister). They sent FW a text at 5.30pm saying they will catch up tomorrow instead so we had to explain to kids yet again. I absolutely dread when they come to town as they always do this sort of thing and I can feel FWs anger building up. He gets so angry as they literally have to pass the top of our road to go back and forth to the aunties house when they stay and don't bother even popping their head in to see our DC - their grandchildren but when it comes to his stepmums side of the family/grandkids they can't do enough, especially his dad. I have had it out with the FIL before about this and letting the kids down as it upsets them especially DD so am a bit wary now about how I'm behaving in front of them, they are the sort of people that relish in gossiping about other folk, even their own family so there is no way I could let them see how things really are here, they wouldn't help, but know I need to drop hints about how FW is behaving so when we do spilt it won't be me that gets slated - house a tip, not looking after my appearance etc etc. I really do think his parents are the root of his FWeirty, no excuse for it though, its not my fault and its always me that gets the brunt of it [bsad]

Hope there is peace out there with you all tonight. I have just been acting "normal" as know he will be at breaking point after FILs rejection today so hopefully peace tonight when he gets home, will keep myself busy and out of his way.

Trying Not seen you for a few days on here, hope you are ok?

BTW - How cold is it?!!! [bsad] (thats a little blue cold face) keep warm ladies

Oh dear, Maggie, apart from the no-longer-fluffy head, there isn't much good news there! How stressful for you to have to watch and worry (about FW's temper and DC's emotions).

As expected, he's not taking my "no" lying down. Is being very reasonable while trying to imply that I'm a lunatic. [bgrin] Please help me with this, though: he's just said that the thing we're arguing about is a great opportunity for ds to learn that other people?s feelings are more important than his. Reassure me: this is bollocks, isn't it? His feelings and other people's feelings should be of equal importance, no? (And even his feelings should come before others where we, his dps, are concerned?)

I feel I'm asking very basic questions, but my head is spaghetti tonight! He constantly challenges basic assumptions I have like this...

Charlotte how old is DS that he needs to know about, who else's, feelings?

He's 5. The situation is that H wants to take him on holiday to see someone he was friends with for a few months just over a year ago. DS doesn't want to go. Would rather stay with me and his toys and his current friends, I think. FW thinks he's too young to know his own mind and is annoyed I asked him his opinion.

Yes, it's bollocks!!! He's manipulating you saying 'no' into it being you kicking him down, which of course is not what's happening!

FW also thinks this friend from the past would be very disappointed if ds didn't go. How true this is, I have no idea. I suppose he, having stayed in the same place while ds moved on, might have remembered him and missed him longer?

haha - thank you pony - that's reassuring! I feel he just wants to look good in some way by having this holiday.

sorry you might not want to state age, but an actual argument between you isn't the way to demonstrate anything to him. This is between his parents and he won't be liking that; it would even worse for him to try to take a view on that aswell!!! THAT is bonkers, and an impossible situation to put him in. Continue argument after he's gone to bed, thats if any chance it could be anything more than a mild disagreement. I know I wouldn't but then could never trust what out of controlness it would lead to.

Never mind DS's opinion - what's yours?

But DS's opinion is still important as a guideline. NSDH used to have a go at me asking DS1 his opinion about things. If it had been the other way around, he would have said I was babying him by not letting him have input into decisions.