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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Support for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships: 13

999 replies

CharlotteCollinsislost · 08/11/2012 09:10

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
www.heart-2-heart.ca/women/page1.htm heart to heart]] a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

OP posts:
TheSilverPussycat · 26/11/2012 14:50

By and large, GPs love to see their DGC, especially if their DD is there to supervise them! They do know what children are like you know - and are happy to put up with a bit of stress sometimes. I am only an honarary Nanna (to 4 DGC , but I know this :)

TisILeclerc · 26/11/2012 14:52

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jan2013 · 26/11/2012 14:54

Tis your dad sounds lovely im glad he is there on hand for support and help this weekend

well FW just called in unexpectedly. of course, after he got what he wanted, he's being all nice now, so he called in to drop dds shoe off. of course, no text or anything to let me know. he is looking like he is doing me favours now like you say, but he knows fine well that i dont like him calling round unannounced. and it really really unsettled me. he came round the back and peered through the kitchen window and knocked the back door. and i was actually cooking for the first time something proper, in AGES, for me and dd tonight. if i had of known he was coming i would have been 'getting on with my busy life' now its just confirmed to him that i have so much more time than he has...lol oh who cares im just thinking too much. i stil have a flipping house to run.

TisILeclerc · 26/11/2012 14:56

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TheSilverPussycat · 26/11/2012 15:12

Again, seconding this :)

jan2013 · 26/11/2012 15:34

what would we do without nice mnetters!

Bertiebassett · 26/11/2012 18:59

WTFuckwittery is going on?!

We got into a bit of a text argument today with him demanding access to DSs passport and me asking why. Turns out he doesn't actually need it for anything...he just didn't want me to have control of it. Anyway his last text was totally spaghettifying... The first sentence was about how important it was that he knew what was going on and that communication was vital (yawn). Second sentence said "on the other hand how about a kiss?"

What?????

This is a man that I'm divorcing at this precise moment . I haven't so much as hugged him in almost a year...let alone anything else. Has he not got the message yet that I don't want him?!

ponygirlcurtis · 26/11/2012 20:07

Leclerc, my dad would sometimes sit in the living room with his noise-reducing headphones on (used for working in his garage) when DS1 and his two cousins were running around! Grin

jan, that's really frustrating, because if you were to make a 'thing' about it and ask him not to come round without calling first, to the outside eye it would look a bit over the top. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't!

Bertie, what a FW. Twas as you suspected, he is just trying to wrestle back some kind of control in whatever pathetic way he can (and it's certainly nowt to do with communication either, cos he wouldn't recognise communication is he fell over it). I suspect the last text comment is similarly intended to completely mess with you, not because it's actually what he wants.

NiniLegsInTheAir · 26/11/2012 20:15

The prodigal son daughter returneth. It would appear that we had our last couples counselling session today. It's been an up-and-down week and I tried to get that through today. NSDH's reaction was to get extremely grumpy and acuse me of being negative.

The subject of having more children in the future FINALLY came up - of course he was all for it, all this bollocks about having children 'completing' him. I said I didn't expect to have any more and things would have to drastically change for it to ever happen - due to being so unsupported etc when DD was born last year. He didn't like that.

I said that our financial situation hasn't changed, since as always if anything is to happen I'm the one who has to organise it. He didn't like that either. I used the subject of xmas presents as an example - unless I specifically tell him to buy for someone, he won't do anything. He didn't like that. He told me that as 'he's a man' he can't be expected to remember to do these things, and that 'other women he knows' don't expect their men too, that he's never been like this in all the years we've been together (which isn't true). I said that I feel like I'm juggling - all these balls in the air, me, DD, work, studying, the house etc, I don't need another set of balls (him) to have to manage too. He said if I'm not happy then I need to say that I want to end it (that old chestnut again).

The counsellor said that things do get easier as kids get older ("Exactly why I don't want any more", said I), but then NSDH turned on me. Said the problem wasn't DD, it was me. My mood swings are too much. ("Volatile?" Said the counsellor, "Yes", he says).

He complained about the amount of time I spend studying in the evenings, which made me angry. Told him I was making no apology for trying to better myself.

The counsellor suggested that as we've done sooooo much work that we might be trying to find things wrong that we wouldn't before (Hmm). She asked if we needed any more sessions. No, says he, the 'ball is in our court now'. I said I thought we did need more. He then says that he is 'in trouble with work for not having enough flex so he can come to these sessions, and not enough annual leave left' - which is all total bollocks, the way he phrased it made it clear to me he's lying, he just doesn't want to spend any more of 'his' time on this. I said I didn't feel comfortable enough to go it alone and that we still had work to do, but said that since I'm not allowed to be negative what's the point of saying so.

The counsellor said we could come back next week as normal if we wanted, or have a few weeks break and come back after xmas. We need to ring her to let her know. As we left NSDH turns to her and says "thank you for everything, for all your help, and merry xmas". Translation - he's got no intention of ever coming back.

I'm now left feeling like I don't even know this man in my life. He's a totally different person to me now. I know everyone here warned me not to do couples counselling, and more fool me for going, but I'm a bit fragile now so please be gentle. Trying to hold it together tonight, can't bring myself to talk to him and he's now grumpy (obviously I'm not allowed any complaints). Think I might be sleeping on the sofa tonight. Can't do this anymore. Sad

NiniLegsInTheAir · 26/11/2012 20:15

Apologies for the rant. And for not supporting the rest of you more right now.

TisILeclerc · 26/11/2012 20:42

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ponygirlcurtis · 26/11/2012 20:45

Nini, please do not be apologising to us. It's your life, you are the one who has to live it, and you have a more holistic view of your whole situation than any of us do. I know I've been given advice that didn't feel right for me at the time so I did something different. Some of it I wish I'd listened to, but the key is that it didn't feel right for me at the time, so the hindsight is just that.

More importantly, is how you are feeling. You have been railroaded in counselling and are hurting from it. What you are feeling is valid. Don't believe what he says about you. Hold on to how you are feeling, it's your truth.

jan2013 · 26/11/2012 20:56

Nini really sorry what you are going through. i echo please don't be apologising totally no need to.... i did the same thing (i was warned about counselling, still went, and it was the most hardest thing ever!) you would do anything if you think there was a chance it could help! but at least you are finding out more and more just what he is like. please try to plan some easy days for yourself, or some support from people that are easy for you to be with - i remember how i felt after the counselling had stopped - like i'd been run over by a bus. things WILL get better. i actually rang the counsellor on my own in tears afterwards to tell her the truth! hugs

CharlotteCollinsislost · 26/11/2012 21:12

Pony, I took your advice without even having read it! :o Have had a very productive day getting the house back into order after our weekend away and my listlessness for the last month. Lodger/friend left on Friday, so it's all down to me now! Feel so much more energetic today.

Mind you, was almost thrown this morning by a message from FW, written six days ago, but it only just got through (and maybe as well I didn't see it before seeing my parents). Gist was, that he'd been speaking to a friend (one of his xgfs, in fact - not the same as the one I mentioned before, though!!) and she'd explained to him that in order to feel valued, I probably need more than a bit of help round the house, something

more to do with a deep basis of mutual trust, and the conviction that nothing is more important to me than you [...various excuses] i'd be interested in your thoughts of how this is all playing out for you, and how we can resolve it. i love you, C, and i long for you to be as convinced of that as i am.

Cringe, cringe! That last sentence would've sent my pulse racing a year ago, now I just feel faintly sick. So, interesting that he didn't tell her she was wrong and just needs to trust him more... Hmm The moment's probably passed, so I'm not going to reply to it, but if he asks again, I shall say I don't think I have anything more to add than the things I wrote in the letter in the summer.

Heard Pet Shop Boys' version of Elvis's wonderful song "Always on my Mind" later on in the day, which sounded rather similar to FW's excuses; found myself thinking, "Yeah? Sorry, Elvis, not good enough - find an abuser's program!" :o

Sorry, another huge missive from me again!

OP posts:
CharlotteCollinsislost · 26/11/2012 21:16

Nini, so sorry to hear how you're feeling. ((Hugs)) and [choc].

jan - sorry to hear about your FW's fwery, but glad that you sound stronger and are recognising it for what it is - calculated (at least at some level) and unkind.

Bertie - what an idiot he is!

OP posts:
TisILeclerc · 26/11/2012 21:18

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ponygirlcurtis · 26/11/2012 21:21

Ah Charlotte, so nice to hear that you're feeling energetic. This whole process is so draining, and I think having your parents' backing has lifted you more than you realise. Fab fab fab.

What I thought reading that excerpt was: he's making you do all the work again. Instead of making suggestions on how to make things better, he wants you to do that. He seems to think it's enough for him just to say what he's said, you're supposed to be so over the moon that he's making an effort that it makes everything all better. As you say, probably best that it's nearly a week old.
(and: how this is all playing out for you - is he speaking to someone at work???)

NiniLegsInTheAir · 26/11/2012 21:30

Thanks girls, I may not have a counsellor but at least you're here eh Smile

Currently trying to study and have my secret stash of choc and a cuppa to help see me through. He came up trying to be all nicey nicey earlier, sorry mate, having none of it.

This is going on my page of clarity. I may not have any plans to escape, but I need to do something.

Charlotte that message from your FW made me vom a little in my mouth, I admit. It sounds slightly creepy, no? Confused

CharlotteCollinsislost · 26/11/2012 21:45

Haha! So glad you reacted to it like that, Nini! People have given him Confused looks before for comments which he thought were caring and lovely. And yet he knows how to do it with the rest of the world - he just thinks I'm different (cos I'm a wife, not a person). I thought years ago that he saw me in a completely different category from his friends - well, ok, obviously, but like there was no overlap at all. iyswim.

Pony, yy - wow, he actually wants to make it work! Swoon! Still no mention of "change", of course - in fact, he's already subtly twisting it so that it sounds like she thinks it's all my fault, too. "How can we resolve this?" he says, in a very kind, supportive way - in other words, passive-agressive "this is all your problem!!" And I could almost hear him not saying at the end "I'll do anything - except therapy, obviously..."

OP posts:
TheSilverPussycat · 26/11/2012 23:07

Haven't caught up with everyone yet, but nini you don't need to take this crap from your counsellor. It is undermining. Please stop.

Had to chuckle at another set of balls though Grin

TisILeclerc · 27/11/2012 09:21

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NiniLegsInTheAir · 27/11/2012 09:23

Hee Silver that made me lol, I didn't realise I'd said that Grin

So far this morning I've defriended NSDH's family from my Facebook, they don't like me and the feeling is mutual. I don't see them much anyway so it's no loss, and he doesn't use his facebook much so he won't notice.

I'm now writing an email to him with the final tally of how much I owe him financially for the month. I'm finally growing my own set of balls and telling him I will no longer be contributing towards his travel expenses for work. I should have done that long ago. No doubt he'll whinge that it means him working where he does is no longer sustainable, but tough. Maybe I should put this into caveman language for him - 'Me have debt. You have savings. You suck it up, manchild'. Grin

Have a good day everyone, despite this awful weather.

NiniLegsInTheAir · 27/11/2012 09:27

Sorry Tis, but not overly cynical at all. I'd be thinking the same. I find the use of the word 'our' rather than 'the' is designed to remind you of the physical bond between you and him, like saying to you 'look at OUR family'. An attempt to make you feel guilty, IYSWIM. Don't be fooled Smile

TisILeclerc · 27/11/2012 09:34

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ponygirlcurtis · 27/11/2012 10:39

Leclerc, absolutely not too cynical - I find that NSDH changes his wording on 'our son'/'my son'/'DS2' depending on what he's trying to get out of the conversation. It's just another tactic.
Entirely reasonable thinking on the laptop - you are employed by him, he needs to supply the kit. Anything you buy is for your use, not work use.

Nini Grin at even more balls!! Love your caveman talk.

Well, for me today is a funny day. It's DS2's first birthday. Not sure how I feel. Bit deflated and numb, I think. We had dinner at Mum's as normal on Sunday, along with a cake for him, and mum got some balloons and banners which was nice. Today feels a bit nothingy. The boys are going up to NSDH's for dinner tonight, no idea if he'll have done anything like get a cake. Kind of don't care. Going out for lunch with Mum & Dad, and mum said she'd come down tonight with a wee bottle of wine for each of us (ie a glass each). I don't really want her to come, I want to have an awful lot more than one glass of wine (but probably shouldn't), not sure I want company tonight (but probably should have).

Keep thinking about DS1's first birthday. His first year was awful for me - ex got done for drink driving when DS1 was 3 months old, we had to move house so ex could get to work (and I really didn't like where we were, felt very isolated), then he continued to drink and go out lots and we had a terrible Christmas. I was on the verge of ending things, and then he gave up drinking on New Year's Day. DS1's birthday is in January, so I was filled with hope then, we had a big family party for DS1 and my niece (who is only 13hrs younger), and I was feeling good. But ex's dry spell only lasted 5 months, he started going out drinking again the week before my birthday in June (nice timing), and by the end of July I'd had enough again and moved out.

This time, the first year of my baby's life has been another awful one, worse if anything. But I don't feel that spark of hope. It feels more like a day to get through than celebrate. (And I'm waiting on NSDH's inevitabley snipey response to the email I sent him about not meeting up...) So am feeling like having a little pity party to myself today instead of a birthday party, but I'll hopefully pull myself up by my bootstraps and give myself a talking to. Now, where's that leftover cake...

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