Support for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships: 13

[CharlotteCollinsislost]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
www.heart-2-heart.ca/women/page1.htm heart to heart]] a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

And, jan, you can also chose not to have him back, even if he has changed in all the right ways. Him changing doesn't mean you are obliged to try again. You can chose simply not to. That is also your right.

Silver, I think I have done that too, not really been in touch with some friends because they'd be expecting me to be all happy and all, having recently got married and had a baby etc, and I just couldn't pretend to be, and couldn't face revealing the truth, so just didn't get in touch at all. This year, I feel more ready to face revealing the truth.

Bertie, I think your FW thinks your head zips up the back. My initial thought was - just give him copies. But now I think don't give him anything unless he's prepared to explain why, otherwise you have no obligation to hand anything over, I don't think (maybe check with your solicitor about it tomorrow). Why does he need copies 'for his records'? If he ever was going on holiday abroad with DS he might need the passport number in advance, but surely that's a long way off and could be dealt with at the time?

As far as I know, either of you could apply for a copy of his birth certificate (I recently got a copy of my marriage certificate). And either of you could probably apply for a passport renewal.

Any idea why he wants these, other than just to feck with your head and pretend he has have some control over DS by having copies of these docs? Does DS's passport run out soon? You can apply for a renewal before it's due up, 9 months before runs out I think.

Not sure why he's asking pony...I hate the fact that I'm now so suspicious of everything he does. I'm usually such a trusting soul...

DSs passport does run out in May...but FW wouldn't know that TBH...

Sigh...I'll check with solicitor in the morning...

Me too, Bertie. I used to believe the best of everyone. But better to be suspicious and alert for FWittery where he's concerned.

If there's no obvious reason, I think he's just trying to play games.

You are right to be suspicious, Bertie, I found it paid to think through and seek advice on the implications of every little thing.

And jan it's really not about being able to cope with having him back again. Really, really not!

can i please get some perspective here. im so upset after FW left. this is what happened...

tonight on leaving dd back, with her awake, he told me he didn?t think he could take her tuesday night (knowing full well tues is the night i go to my night class). said he had too much work to do. i said i was sorry but i had class that night. he said well he was going to fail his course. i said well that is not my responsibility. he said that IS my responsibility since he is the one running about with dd all the time! then i said that was fine, not to take her and that i would miss my class on tuesday.

i tried to tell him it was not good to talk about arrangements while dd was here- he was not happy at all about this and argued with me saying he was bored of the way i was (not wanting arguments in front of dd), fed up of it, and that i needed to wise up. and i said look you can see she knows there is a lot of tension and she can see we are unhappy. and he said ?well thats life she?ll have to get used to it? and left.

im so upset. why does he still have the potential to upset me so so much? he was so horrible, his whole manner. so please reassure me it is him that is being unreasonable here....or is it me. maybe its me...

Jan him BU all the way, that's a rotten thing to say in front of and about your dd - saying she'll have to get used to it - huh

Bertie this rang alarm bells for me too. Can you tell him passports and certs are lodged with your solicitor for safekeeping (and actually drop them in there tomorrow morning) so he will have to apply to her/him (presumably via his sol)? Then your solicitor is in control and can see any pitfalls and advise you.

Pony and jan re divorce/separation subject, I have given this thought too. I'm not yet out but plan to be soon. I too can't cope with thought of yet more legal mess and expense, as you say one step at a time. But what worries me is my sol saying that any financial agreements made during separation aren't worth the paper they're written on, but once a divorce is finalised, there's no changing the agreements. Whether that's true I don't know. I know I'll be taking step one first - leaving - and then see how the land lies, like you have.

FW has been reasonable again today (the bastard ) - but seriously it does mess with my head. However, given that I now can't stand the sight of him, it doesn't change my mind. We had friends round tonight (who don't have a clue about our issues, I don't think) and I just kept thinking all evening, this is the last social event I'll have to endure as a lie. Mentally, I am well and truly out, it's just doing the logistics now and having that courage

jan, no it's not you being unreasonable. I have had this discussion argument about him not initiating potentially difficult discussions around the kids when I am dropping them off or collecting them. It just doesn't go in, and you come away from the situations (I often found myself drawn in despite my best intentions) feeling awful. The only advice I can give is get angry at him, and use that anger to decide how things will be from now on, and be firm on it. Be a broken record. If he starts talking about stuff, say 'You'll need to email me about this' over and over until he stops. Or just then say 'I've said you'll need to email me, I have to go, bye.' and walk away/shut the door. It feels shit having to do it, but if you don't do something then he will continue to control these situations and have them run however he likes. He got what he wanted here - he got out of Tuesday, and ruffled you into the bargain, with a few insults thrown in for good measure - I'd say he's feeling pretty pleased with himself right now. Take control back, or he'll keep doing this.

trying, you do seem resolved, and that will help you stay detached. I love your 'this will be the last time I have to...' approach, that's really empowering. Hurrah!

I've got a favour to ask. Can anyone help me with an email?
NSDH texted me earlier to ask about meeting up this week - bloody again! It obviously didn't register when I said to him last week that I wanted to leave meeting up till Christmas was past, and maybe do it over the holidays when there will be more opportunity (ie could do it during the day & no need to go to the house or have him come into the flat).

I texted that I'd email him about it (hate doing this kind of thing back and forth on text). He texted back:
'Just a thought to meet up, know ur prob not ready yet but time seems to be slipping by. Girls are wondering where we're going, told them it wouldnt be like this long term and practical situation needs change. Don't stress if you cant meet up, just a thought.'

Now. I'm pretty annoyed that he brings the girls into it, that seems like guilt/emotional blackmail. And then there seems to be a veiled threat in the comment regards it not being like this long term. Plus he's just not listening to me.

But I don't want to get sidetracked. Here's my email so far:

You have asked about meeting up almost every week since the start of October. Last week, I said that I didn't want to meet up until after Christmas. You are right, that I don't feel ready yet, and your constant asking about is causing me stress and upset. Especially since you have now ignored what I said last week. It seems that what you need and want in this outweighs what I need (and what I have actively requested). If that is not the case, then I can't understand why you continue to ask about meeting up, knowing that I am not ready yet, and knowing that I have said about not meeting till after Christmas.

Is this what I want to say? Is this how to say it? I have no perspective on my own emails, and I know I have a tendency to be too emotional. Any thoughts?

This is a email in which you are justifying yoursef to him. Don't bother. He won't 'get' it.

Short and to the point is the way. 'I do not want to meet up before Christmas'

(not 'till after Christmas' as that presupposes you will meet at some point, and as things develop you may continue not to want to see him.)

stay strong

x-posted. What a lovely DF leClerc

It's funny, I'm an editor by profession, but I simply can't edit myself (hence my posts are always a tad on the wordy side...).

Silver, that's just a perfect way to say it. I was worried that it sounded like we'd definitely meet over Christmas, and although we might if I feel up to it, it's not definite. Thanks.

hilde, you are so right about not letting on that's upsetting me. I can see it in other people's emails, but not my own! I just so want him to know I'm upset so that he can stop doing the things that's upsetting me, but of course that's how normal people operate, not FWs.
I second Silver's cheering on of your DF. Hurrah for him! He's right, too.

Hi all,

I've just got back from my weekend with my parents. Had a long discussion with them last night and they were so supportive! :o I wasn't sure whether to mention separation before giving them a chance to get their heads round the EA issue, but decided mid-conversation to broach the subject and even then they were all support and agreement that there's not really any other way. Woke this morning feeling that a load had been taken off my shoulders. My parents rock! :o

Anyway, while driving home this evening, I had a sudden realisation that should've been shocking but wasn't (like someone said recently). Two memories came back to me, neither of which I've thought about for years: first, that FW was in a long-distance relationship before we started going out, and I discovered after we started going out that he hadn't yet ended it because he hadn't seen her and wanted to do it face to face. Dodgy, no? Second memory: a hideously embarrassing evening with FW, his friend and me, when FW started extolling the virtues of goodbye sex - it had been particularly hot with previous gf, he said, and was "surprised" when I told him later that had upset me.

I don't think I've put those two memories together before to get the obvious conclusion: that while he was saying we should "save ourselves for marriage" he happily went off and shagged his newly-ex. He really had no respect for me, even then, did he? He'd had loads of gfs before - he ought to have known what's acceptable and what's not.

So then I wondered why I hadn't just broken it off with him either of those times or after any other dodgy moments (I'm sure there were others). And I think, that embarrassing evening, we were staying with the friend, so I didn't feel I could make a scene there. And then he'd be lovely again, so that by the time we got back home it had all receded in my mind. He was playing games with me even then.

And why did I marry him? Because he could be lovely, probably when he felt me detaching. Because his last fiancee had broken it off suddenly and he'd taken years to get over it - I didn't want to be the same. And he was having a tough time at work and talking of feeling suicidal. And he had persuaded me to buy a house with him, so the practical implications overwhelmed me, too. He basically manipulated me into marrying him, by making me feel I was the only good thing in his life. And because I was an idiot a compassionate person, I put my own needs to the side, repeatedly. Which must've made him think I was perfect marriage material as I've been having to do the same ever since. Meanwhile, he has capitalised on this by telling me repeatedly over the years that I've never loved him - a very clever twisting of the truth that I repeated to the counsellor not long ago and am only now questionning. I fell in love with good-FW, and I loved him enough to put him first all those times that bad-FW showed through, but he's right that I didn't marry him for love, but... well, out of fear.

I feel hit by a sudden revelation: he's never loved me, just himself - and he's manipulated me for his own ends all these years.

These lightbulb moments are quite emotionally draining, aren't they?!

They have said that a lot over the years, and it's one of the things I really appreciate about them, but I was still worried that they'd say, "You're our daughter and we love you no matter what, but we don't understand this and think you're making a big mistake. We'll do our best to support you anyway."

Charlotte i am so so pleased that you felt able to share everything with your family and they were so supportive. it gives you the strength you need to go with your instincts and make the move doesn't it. i am so sorry about your FW and his 'leaving sex' stuff... what a horrible horrible person... and even if this is what he was thinking, to even TELL you he would do such a thing is awful. why would you ever tell someone you love that you would do something like that? he sounds like he is just wanting to hurt you. oh i feel so angry today about FWs and what they have put us through with their complete selfishness.

im so exhausted, i was crying for ages last night, couldn't get to sleep, then dd was waking me up continually. so then this morning FW sends me a text saying he WILL now to tuesday night to 'help me out' but not friday night, as he has too much to do. i feel really messed about with. should i just send him a text and say sorry ive already made alternative plans? my mum can always come if i want, and my friend has offered to babysit, but to be honest i think i will just give my class a miss anyway with the way i feel.

Charlotte, I am so so pleased for you that your parents have been supportive, that must be an enormous weight off your mind, and an enormous sense of validation for what you are going through too.

That's quite a lightbulb moment you've had, it's a lot to mentally deal with, especially after speaking to your parents. Give yourself a break from it today if you can, relax and put it all out of your head for a while and focus on yourself.

My NSDH also used to tell me (tell me, mind, as if he is the only person to know the truth) that I didn't love him. It's a really upsetting thing to hear, and made me try even harder to prove that I did love him. Which I guess was the point. It was all about his own insecurity and manipulating me so that he could feel more secure, not caring what it does to me in the process.

I guess maybe that's what NSDH's constant asking about meeting up is about. He is worried that my lack of desire to meet up means that I don't love him anymore. So he needs us to meet up so I can prove that I do still love him. He camouflages it as a request to start communicating, but really he's feeling insecure and needs me to reassure him. That makes a lot of sense.

jan - sorry to hear how upset you were last night, it sometimes just gets on top of you, doesn't it. As to his text: read back what I wrote last night. He's just jerking you around. DO NOT AGREE TO WHAT HE PROPOSES!!!! If you agree to what he's saying, you are dancing to his tune. I wouldn't be surprised if he planned to tell you he couldn't do Tues so he could then tell you he now could. It seems unbelievable that someone could be so calculating, but now nothing would surprise me about these FWs.
So. Here's my advice. Either tell him no thanks for Tues (and if he can't do Friday either, that's his problem is he's not seeing DD this week, and if he's going to continue to mess you around you'll need to review the arrangements, on your terms), or tell him what the arrangements are - he has her Tuesday and Friday. You've already made other arrangements for Tuesday - this time - but you are not changing Friday as well, he has to have her Friday or make his own arrangements for someone like his Mum to have her.

ive said that ive already made arrangements for tuesday - simple text back. what did he text back? 'well thats your choice. im just giving you the option' !!!? as if he is doing me the favour and im the one refusing it now! how can they just twist everything like this. its so flipping frustrating. well he can do whatever he wants i think ill just give my class a miss. have a nice relaxing night, ive already sent an email to my tutor explaining weve separated so my dh can't be relied on to mind dd. tutor can take whatever he wants from that.
as to the whole 'you don't love me thing' FW used to say that to me too. and he would always ask 'do you love me' over and over again and it got to the stage that i couldn't answer otherwise id be lying. he would ask me straight after a huge row. i would just say i don't want to talk about it.

Of course he's doing you a favour, jan - and now you've turned it down, making you the unreasonable one instead of him. That's the way it's meant to look. It is frustrating, but recognising what he's doing (and seeing that it's deliberate) helps lessen the spag-headyness. Stay strong, and plan something nice to do for yourself tomorrow night.

Seconding pony. Brilliant bit of untangling, jan