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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Support for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships: 13

999 replies

CharlotteCollinsislost · 08/11/2012 09:10

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
www.heart-2-heart.ca/women/page1.htm heart to heart]] a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

OP posts:
MaggieMay05 · 19/11/2012 11:16

Thanks ladies, I know he needs to help himself just don't know if he can. We were suppose to be visiting a potential school for DD this morning and I had to reschedule it as FW is still in a drunken coma and they were expecting us both to attend the appointment. I don't know how to act now when he wakes up-dont know if he will even remember his emotional outburst last night.

In other news the very very lovely gorgeous postman finally delivered my Lundy books this morning-the main why does he do that one and the why does dad hurt mum one. Good job FW was still asleep or he would want to know what it was etc etc.Looking forward to reading my life story later then!

NiniLegsInTheAir · 19/11/2012 13:43

Oh Maggie hope you're ok Sad. What are you going to do now? His behaviour seems to be spiralling, and like everyone says, it's his responsibility to sort himself out.

Just dropped DD off at nursery so we can go to couples counselling this afternoon. As usual, had a good cry to myself on my drive home. I hate sending her there when she goes 4 days a week already. Everything just seems really shit at the moment. I hate hate hate this life.

MaggieMay05 · 19/11/2012 14:14

((Hugs)) Nini we all seem to be having a shit time of it lately hey-must be something in the air. Stay strong hun.

I have made FW a doctors appt for next wednesday (wouldn't want to be dying hey with the rubbish appt system) When I told him he smirked at me and seemed really happy. He said now I can start sleeping in bed with him again and that's the first step to making things right-ERRR NO! I said the first step is him getting help for the drinking and abuse. Even though he has a real problem, I can't help but think about one of the links at top of the page-the 20 signs one, the bit where it says he knows you are detaching and will do anything-talk about killing himself etc. This seems to be my situation now. So my FW is following all the steps/signs perfectly. I have no clue what to do next??? Sad

Shriek not heard from you for a while on here, hope you are ok, know things were tough going the last few times you posted. Let us know if you can Smile

ponygirlcurtis · 19/11/2012 15:15

Maggie, I think it was me that mentioned having an ex with an alcohol problem. And everyone is right - you cannot do anything. They have to want to change, or nothing you do will make any difference. And if they want to change, they will show this by taking initiative and doing things to help themselves and arranging professional help for themselves. Please don't get drawn back into his circle of chaos by the thought that he needs your help. His alcohol problem is a reason to leave on it's own, not a reason to stay.

hilde - that all sounds a bit familiar. DS1 is pushing boundaries at the moment a lot, I find my patience for it has disappeared and then I end up feeling horrible for not being calm and supportive. He's never been much of one for tantrums, so instead he is basically playing up all the time.
Me: DS1, go and get dressed and ready for school.
[DS1 leaves the room and comes back in five minues later]
Me [a bit annoyed]: DS1, I told you to get dressed, why haven't you?
DS1: I'm scared of the dark.

ponygirlcurtis · 19/11/2012 15:26

Maggie, sorry, didn't read your last post for some reason. I completely agree, I think he's playing up his alcohol problem to get you re-engaged. I had meant to say in my last post (but forgot) something about not making doctor's appointments for him. If he's serious, he'll do it himself. If he's not, he'll make you do it - 'I'll only go if you book it for me' or something like that. Then you feel like he needs you, and will be less likely to leave.

I gave NSDH information about seeing a therapist, but it was up to him to take the bull by the horns, and that was how I knew he was (in some way at least) committed to the process. He's currently made himself two Drs appointments to talk about his bulimia, and not made it to either of them because he's scared. But if he wants the help, he needs to go.

I would be surprised if he goes to the appointment you've made. If he does, will you be able to go with him, so you can know what's been said? I found with NSDH he went to the doc and talked about anger, but mentioned nothing about abusing me. Consequently, the doctor just gave him some leaflets and sent him on his way. Even if he goes, he'll likely minimise it to the doc.

So, in summary (following my customary blabbering), thank goodness you can see what he's doing!!!! Try and stay detached, as much as possible.

Shriek · 19/11/2012 19:24

Hey Maggie just came in to have a lurk, and saw your posting about your FW threatening to commit suicide. I can only endorse what the others say; it is very extreme punishing behaviour.

Would you blame someone else if you felt that way, of course you wouldn't 'put' that on someone else, but he doesn't care what a huge burden that can be if someone is prepared to accept it as their responsibility

Him saying this is absolutely about trying to make you feel bad; don't you feel bad, altho you've absolutely done the right thing by making an appt, but then dont say anything, its all up to him. ohters say, rightly, if he wants to get help he will, but be prepared for it to be an empty reaction seeking act/words. Sadly most of these aggressors have been victims who have refused to stay with their feelings, but acted them out on others instead... selfish, selfish, selfish. So not your responsibility atall. If he does kill himself it will be his choice and his responsibility, that might sound harse, but who else CAN be responsible?

Thanks so for thinking of me too, in the midst of your troubles right now. Mostly deep in thought/emo about sadness of life's events with FW, and working out where I sit in it all. Its taken a long time to come out and to try to find my feet again, and finally starting to see it for what it is (where the dividing line is, which I completely lost - the whole spaghetti head thing). DC suffering terribly at his hands, I find myself at a loss again and again at the worse than childish 'games' using DC to get his way, who benefits, not DC thats for sure. DC struggling and angry (likeyours). Hard to deal with, just staying calm and reflecting, but turning back in tears. Knowing that the anger comes from DC confusion and pain, but having to be very clear about copying FW behaving not being acceptable atall (when I know its acting out). So hard as DC cannot get over the pressure to 'perform', knowing the backlash, so is terribly anxious and carrying so much. Since separating (was it you Maggie, but others too) I have had to spend 3 hours a night staying by beds because of fears. It took 2 years to be able to leave the bedroom, moving to outside of room and then to hall, waiting for 1 hr or so, but now half hour. most recently with fw games DC in my bed every night and I read til sleep. Its incredibly hard and exhausting with no life (that would make him happy to hear - but then he is less than human and more and more I find it difficult to call the behaviour /nasty spiteful stuff 'childish' as although extremely immature, its an insult to children! Going to slope off again now.

So sorry Trying, very sad to hear of flat disappointment. Keep going hun. You will have your freedom.

my mantra for now comes to mind, "I have to change for it to be different".
(knowing the different stages we're all at, but the constant is the FWittery, which we can't change.. only we can change how we react/feel, and we need to feel stronger and have the courage of our convictions).

I am still thinking of all, and hoping for safety and strength for everyone, despite the setbacks. Peaceful night girls (and the darling children) xx

tryingsoonflying · 19/11/2012 22:05

Hello lovely ones,

Reading through the posts, what really stands out is how bloody lovely you all are. Maybe that's a clue the fws sniff out - endlessly kind hearts give them endless opportunity for being fws.

Hilde sorry to hear about ds acting up. Mine exhibit some fw behaviour at times and it chills me. That really makes your separation even more gold plated IYSWIM, although you know that anyway. I am sure the behaviour will pass, as they adjust to being in a sane environment (minus fwittery all the time).

Maggie - your fw's threats are just that - threats in a messy drunken emotional state - as wise fool or fingers (apologies can't remember) said to me when mine was doing similar - these fws never come to any harm, they're far too selfish. Years ago I had a drug addicted bf. I was very young and tried everything to support and help him and took on his probs as my own. But nothing could help him except himself. I talked to other addicts who confirmed this and also to Families Anon who also strongly confirmed this and recommended tough love. Would Fam Anon be an idea for you to call for support and expert advice? Sympathy and Thanks to you, I know what you're going through, with the added enormous heartbreak of dcs being involved xxxx

Charlotte, I am so sorry to hear about your house disappointment, I can relate to it as you know. We WILL get there, lovey Smile. The house/flat falling through for us is only a set back, because the spirit?s willing.

Shriek so very sorry to hear of your concerns re dcs and their suffering. I totally sympathise. It?s a hard road for us mums seeing this but the fact that we?ve recognised it and are moving slowly to disengage is the very best parenting we can do Thanks

Nini - oh, the counselling sounds like it?s really hurting you my love. Please don?t hate life, you have it in front of you and this thread is our slow route to eventual happiness. Take heart, hugs.

Pony - your ds acting up made me really sympathetic but also the way you described it made me smile too, loving your descriptions, even though it?s so awful you?re going through this. Mine do the quivering face and woo hoos that are totally fake at times, but I know what you mean that it?s so painful because there?s real underlying pain.

I told my fw off last night good and proper! Can?t believe it. Usually am too scared but a part of me I think was thinking, go on then, do your worst and then it?s really over, I can walk out that door right now. He?s now doing his giant silent sulking act ? and it leaves me completely unmoved, hooray, the silly arse, he doing me a favour little does he know!

Sorry, epic post!

Bertiebassett · 19/11/2012 22:14

Hi ladies...been reading your posts...everyone is sounding worn down Sad but still the inner strength is shining through. Onwards and upwards eh?

It's been a crap weekend in Bertie's house Sad

The new routine is not going down well with FW. He HATES the fact that DS gets up and climbs into my bed every night...and not his. He HATES that DS prefers me to him. What's really sad is he doesn't realise that his behaviour is making it worse...

On Friday morning DS was in my bed and we heard FW get up. The first thing FW did was go to DSs bedroom to see where he was. We heard him say "unbelievable" in a right stroppy voice. Why is it unbelievable that a 4 year old would want to be with their mum? DS asked why daddy was angry with him...

The next day FW was looking after DS. Poor boy spent quite a bit of time being told off because he kept saying he didn't want to be with daddy (he said it to me and to FW himself!). I just felt gutted that he was being punished for saying how he felt. Then I heard FW make a really sarcastic comment to DS about him never going to see him at night. The final straw was when DS was in bed that night. He was coughing really bad (it actually made him sick). FW hadn't heard and as i was in the room right next door to DS I went in to see to him. FW eventually came upstairs and had a right go at me for being there. Like I was going to leave DS coughing and choking just because it wasn't my turn! FW threatened to not to go to mediation again unless I let him do what he wanted. I refused...kept saying "No"...you'd have been proud of me!

Next day I emailed the mediator to tell her what was going on. I knew she'd forward the message to FW (everything's transparent in mediation) but I really didn't care. It's done the trick though...she's suggested a meeting next week to try and sort out the living arrangements ASAP. I'm desperately hoping she can do her magic again and get him to move out...

On a slightly different topic. I found out today that neither FW or his solicitor have acknowledged the divorce application. It should have been done within 14 days of receipt. Looks like they've been busy trying to negotiate splitting the costs and forgotten to acknowledge or apply for an extension. My solicitor says its a major error on the part of FW's solicitor. He said though it is a little aggressive we could take advantage of their mistake, file for the decree nisi now...and claim all the costs. It all sounded a bit underhand to me...but solicitor told me I had to stop being so nice!

Sooo...I thought about it carefully for all of two seconds and then told my solicitor to go for it! Aren't I getting strong eh?!

tryingsoonflying · 19/11/2012 22:31

bertie woo hoo, you strong lady (re divorce), so glad for you! And so Angry for you and ds re the manipulation, grrr. They (fws) expect love as their right, don't realise you get back what you give, with kids.

hildebrandisgettinghappier · 19/11/2012 22:36

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

tryingsoonflying · 19/11/2012 22:42

OMG re 3rd boob, you poor love! Bet GP who told you it was nothing was male.... sorry living up to supposed man hating MN standards, but really, that's awful. Can you request a female gp appt (even if you have to pretend you're terribly modest Grin. Sympathy.

I've found another "ideal" place on line - better location wise but unfurnished.But am feeling stronger by day. If I go for it, bloody hell, we have loads of furniture here, why shouldn't I take it?

hildebrandisgettinghappier · 19/11/2012 22:54

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

tryingsoonflying · 19/11/2012 22:57

Agree re anti bios normally but also think older men aren't the best at undertsanding female probs (just deleted fucking patronising, ahem Grin) Yy re furniture, albeit stealthily!

tryingsoonflying · 19/11/2012 22:58

Picturing me tiptoeing out of house with beds in spotty swag bag Grin must be the Wine talkiing Grin

hildebrandisgettinghappier · 19/11/2012 23:01

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CharlotteCollinsislost · 19/11/2012 23:06

I'm looking at an unfurnished place now, too, trying. (Sudden thought: hope we're not looking at the same places! Shock :o ) Looked with dismay this evening at the beds in the dc's rooms that would need flat-packing to get them out of here. And how to move the "bounce-aline" (as dd3 calls it) in the garden?!

OP posts:
tryingsoonflying · 19/11/2012 23:11

ha ha if we are, I would happily share with you, charlotte! In fact - another sudden thought - all on here pool money (or lack thereof Wink in my case) and rent a commune!

CharlotteCollinsislost · 19/11/2012 23:12

Fantastic line I just came across on Barbara Roberts' website in an article giving advice to victims of DV for replying to unhelpful comments:

If someone says: What God has joined together, let no man put asunder
Reply: What God has joined together, a man has already put asunder.

Neat!

OP posts:
hildebrandisgettinghappier · 19/11/2012 23:18

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ccarpenton · 19/11/2012 23:22

Fantastic selection of articles. Wonderful!

CharlotteCollinsislost · 19/11/2012 23:22

I currently hate cleaning and tidying, hilde, but I think it's because I just don't see the point these days. I'll happily potter away on the dull jobs if I'm surrounded by you lovely ladies and your dcs! Just a bit worried about the probable heating issues in a commune rented by all us penniless runaways! And whether we take it in turns to sleep in a bedroom or bathroom! :o

OP posts:
hildebrandisgettinghappier · 19/11/2012 23:26

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ponygirlcurtis · 19/11/2012 23:33

bertie, am so sad for you and DS. He really is being such a FW, he's not helping with DS's state of mind at all, and the fact he totally can't see that... hope your mediator can help. Well done for saying no to him.

oooooh hilde - I thought at the time that perhaps the doc had been a bit dismissive, because your 'third boob' sounded really painful. I completely agree with trying re the fucking patronising, I once went to the doc for the morning after pill in my very much younger days cough, still old enough to know better, only for the grey-haired doc to start talking to me in the third person, like the psycho in Silence of the Lambs - 'If she find herself in this situation again, this is what she should do...'

Def def def take the furniture trying, if it's a choice between unfurnished and nothing.
Loving the commune idea. I can't cook or clean particularly well, I don't iron at all, but I'm good at child distracting and happy to do laundry... and er probably not much more but that's enough to be going on with! Maybe I could learn to churn butter or something.
(Ohhhh, just remembered my previously broadcast massage and reflexology skills - I should probably add that I have my own massage table, surely that's got to be a welcome addition to any commune?)

tryingsoonflying · 19/11/2012 23:34

I'm good at cleaning and cooking but crap at ironing and washing. I also like reading stories. I'm really good fun for chatting and Wine - could be my main skill in fact Blush

tryingsoonflying · 19/11/2012 23:35

Yes, pony, the massage table get its own room Grin