Support for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships: 13

[CharlotteCollinsislost]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
www.heart-2-heart.ca/women/page1.htm heart to heart]] a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

strikethrough, obviously. Gah. Bedtime.

FWIW (no, honestly, off to bed in a minute) - I have told NSDH what is happening this Christmas. I didn't want to have a discussion with him asking to have DS2 overnight (he's still not done that) and me ending up agreeing because I'd been caught on the hop, etc, so I said what was happening - I'll take DS2 up to his at lunchtime (it's his year to have his daughters on Xmas day) and come get him at bedtime. No discussion. I think that's fairish - and it's still a little selfish, since on my part, I'm planning longer term and thinking about next year, when DS1 will be with me for Christmas, and I want DS2 to be with me all day too...
The only person who complained about this arrangement was my own mum. Apparently I'm being selfish because I'm denying my family the chance to spend all of Xmas Day with DS2. Not in so many words, but that was the sense. Sigh.

You can't please all the people all the time, can you?

I have been writing a "page of clarity" - a summary of his behaviour to carry round with me and refer to when I start normalising things. It's just starting its fourth page now(!), but I still just found myself reading a nice email from fw and thinking, "Can't see anything wrong with that. Perhaps everything's fine." Gah!! When will I realise that all fws are capable of niceness some of the time?!?

hilde start a thread about it on chat and you will get millions of pus-porn followers...they will demand photos and progress reports.

Seem to have ground to a bit of a halt here - slightly fed up that Ex held his 60th b party in his new house last Sat, while I couldn't have mine in August as no time to plan and Ex had just left and house was shit-hole and I wasn't up to it. Think I might have a 61st instead. And had mild tummy bug, and mh meds were doing more harm than good - they have restored my sleep pattern but have been making me sleepy and useless in the day. Am coming off them, with CPN agreement.

All of which is nothing compared to what you lot are coping with.

Have a 61st, good idea. Something to plan. And have some belated for the 60th.

Just came across a bit at the beginning of "Why Does He Do That?" saying that not every man he talks about in the book is abusive, he just uses that term as an easy one to say. Cue lots of self-doubt and worry and re-reading of chapter 5 and being totally unable to think about whether it applied to me/him or not. Am slightly resentful that I am currently spending every evening reminding myself how he treats me and realising how bad it is, only to have the clarity slip away by the following afternoon. It's crazy and a huge waste of time!

Gonna call Women's Aid tomorrow night, as lodger friend is out of the house for once.

So this evening total contrast from last night - he took us all out for dinner and then home, took himself off to bed at 9.30pm ish and looking rather sheepish told me he really missed me. I don't know whether I'm coming or going with this man .......he really has a lot of issues with his family that affect him deeply and I think i just get the brunt of it most of the time. Arrgghhhh...need sleep, starting to feel sorry for him rather than remembering what a FW he is - stuck on uncomfy sofa again tonight though My heads going to burst with so much thinking going on!

Bertie that sounds awful... of course your son wants you cos you are the one who has been there for him when its been tough not just when you feel like it. he just expects the rewards of being a father without the hard work. how upsetting for you to have all those accusations and your poor ds too.

when my dd was clingy with me for example when dh would bring her back and she wouldn't go again to him to say bye bye, he would get annoyed and say stuff like 'men are pushed out as usual!'.

about christmas... the thing is that i sent him an email about 3 weeks ago asking what he wanted and putting forward what i thought was a plan and asking what he thought. the plan was this:
he comes round and sees her for awhile on christmas morning while she opens a few presents. i get her the rest of the day, then he has her boxing day.

that would have been fine if we got on....but every time we are seeing each other it ends in tears, so its not fine now....what should i do can any one give any suggestions? should i send him another email and say

'i think since we are not getting on at all it would be a bad idea for you to come round now on christmas day, and we don't want to spoil christmas for all of us. so you can pick dd up on boxing day and have the day with her. if we had of been on good terms it would have been different. i am sad about this, but this is the way it has to be now. please can you reply so i know you have received my email, thanks'

i will probably get hell for changing things, and hell for not allowing her to see him on christmas day. but the problem with this is... i don't want him to be able to turn round next year and say im having her all day this year.. will he be able to do that? or do i get the right to say because she is staying with me.

Charlotte loving the idea of a page of clarity, might start one myself!

Silver, have a party whenever you like! How about a 'I don't have a FW' party . Well if Samantha in SATC can have a I don't have a baby party why not? I turn 30 in two years and NSDH is already planning what 'he' wants to do. I told him the other day I want to go away on holiday on my own for a few days to a place with no phone signal where I can write in peace (I already have a place in mind!) and his reaction was very agressive. He'll do everything possible to stop that from happening, I'm sure.

Jan, I like Hilde's idea of an email. Short and to the point, no need to flowery language here.

I'm having my fortnightly baby-free morning as NSDH has taken her to Dad's group. As always he has to make a song and dance. I got her ready to go, she's stood by the door waiting for him, I call up asking what he was doing, turns out he's sorting out his fucking fantasy football team. . Why would a grown man do one of those anyway? It's only coz all his single bachelor friends do. So by the time he gets down they're running late.

They both head towards the car, me waving them off. DD is in a wilful phase at the moment, so she doesn't want to get into the car and runs off down the road. NSDH turns to me all grumpy and says "She's run off." I was still in my PJs, no shoes so I told him to go get her then. By the time he does, she's been jumping in puddles. He picks her up. Then throws a complete hissy fit coz her muddy puddles have got mud on his jeans. He shouts at her. Almost tosses her into her carseat, pulls her boots off and throws them to me saying how messy her boots are now. She's crying. I'm telling him to get a grip. He then spends the next 5 minutes dabbing at his jeans with a tissue before storming off into the car without another word. All this in front of a friend of ours who was walking past and came over to say hello.

He's made my blood boil. He's totally and utterly fucking pathetic. I will be raising this at counselling on Monday. And his drunken incident with my family last weekend. What a pathetic use of a human skin he is.

Charlotte, your (4) page of clarity is a great idea. Def call WA, they will help and give you validation that he is abusive. Because he is. Don't let yourself talk yourself out of it! As you say, even a FW has nice moments. (Maggie, this applies to you too! Although I'm really glad you had a good evening for a change, but it doesn't change anything.)

Silver, I love the idea of an 'alternative' birthday celebration. Just because it's not a round number, who's to say that you shouldn't have a party? And you deserve to have one. I think it's a great idea.

jan - the problem there is you are still asking him his opinion on your plan, leaving yourself open to his criticism. Like you see yourself, you cannot have a normal discussion when you cannot communicate properly. I had a go at rewriting the email, but actually, I like hilde's version better!
I know that seems harsh, but keep all emotion out of it, keep out anything that gives him scope to disagree. You're not having a discussion, you are telling him how it is. It's so hard to do, I know!

Try not to think about it in terms of who has the right to decide where she goes and when, try to think more that what is best for DD is what should happen. You make the decisions regards what happens (in a normal situation, you'd agree together, but he's making that impossible). If he disagrees, he can't force you to change your mind, but he's welcome to get a solicitor and try and get it changed through the courts, but the court will not take kindly to anything he says that doesn't have DD's best interests at its heart.

Hey Nini - that's really awful. I know we all lose the rag now and then with our kids, but he seems to have no tolerance or patience at all.

You've gone back to counselling then? Have you had one since that awful one a few weeks ago, or will this be the first since then?
What's your 'leaving plan'? You sound like you really, really dislike him at the moment. You're getting so ground down by him. Hope you are enjoying your morning to yourself.

Nini what a drama with what should just be a simple pick up. why do they complicate absolutely everything? dh is also routinely late with picking dd up. its not fair of them do get on like that in front of the dds.

i like the idea of that email hilde... its getting the confidence now to send it. ill give it a few days...

pony i guess what i am worried about is that a solicitor would say it is in dds interest for her to go to her dads on year for christmas and mine the next. i guess i will have to deal with this if they say that.. or say about sharing christmas day. why would a solicitor NOT give him christmas day? i guess dd wouldn't know any different that its christmas day. but it would be awful for me, i have such a close bond with her, and no offence to him, but he doesn't.

jan, a solicitor wouldn't say that, I don't think. A court might, but a solicitor can only recommend what seems reasonable. And I don't think it's unreasonable for you to say that this year, you'll be having her on Christmas Day and he can have her on Boxing Day.

In a normal situation, if it went to court, then it would probably be decided that it should be alternate years for things like Christmas and birthdays. But if there are other things to consider, like if you have concerns about him and you can get the court to consider them, then perhaps it would be different. Have you seen a solicitor yet? It might put your mind at rest, to speak to one and have them confirm that you are being reasonable and that you are perfectly entitled to say to him: this is what will be happening.

I know it seems awful to be away from her on Christmas Day but that's in the future, it's a while away yet, don't let it cloud your thoughts right now. It would be hard, but you'd get through it, I promise. This will be my third time of DS1 being at his dad's for Christmas. You make the best of it. The first year was awful, but it's easier after that.

We've been to counselling once since then Curtis but since then he's been working. And you're right, I'm really annoyed by him right now. And he's been away half the week so really I should be able to cope! I have no leaving plan, can't afford to go, no money, no family here, no friends able or willing to help. I'm stuck here with no end in sight.

Enjoying my morning but they'll be back at midday. And he'll want to know what I've been doing round the house while they've been out.

pony i think i might speak to a solicitor before i make any plans. does your ds stay overnight with your dh? maybe that makes a difference

My DS1 does stay overnight with his dad. DS2 doesn't (yet). Definitely speak to a solicitor, it'll help you feel more comfortable in your assertions.

Oh Nini. Don't be stuck. You'll end up disappearing altogether. Think about who you can speak to who can help you, whether it's WA or a friend. Are your friends really unwilling to help? You sound defeated, and lonely. There must be another option.

Most of my friends here are his friends not mine, and the few friends I do have I'm not close enough to and they all have kids and lives of their own. I am lonely. Trying my hardest to get out of debt (earnt £300 this month so far writing articles) but studying, full-time work and DD keeps me busy. He came home from Dad's group all chirpy and now doesn't understand why I'm grumpy with him for his behaviour earlier.

Far too tired for all this. Argh why is it all so difficult?

yeh - i totally understand how frustrating that is when they say oh theyve forgotton it and then they blame you for being the one who is 'holding on to things' or 'not letting things go'. its so unfair.

that was one of the things i realised.. for a long time he said he was happy with our marriage while i wasn't. that was why. hes getting to be angry when he wants, then forgets it.. why? cos he isn't having to deal with the consequences.

I just took another look at "Should I Stay or Should I Go" (another Lundy Bancroft classic....

The bit about personality disorders (especially Narcissistic ones) is a bit close for comfort...

Anyone got that book?

Hi lovely ones, sorry for long silence, my life's been like a washing machine, me being swept along and no time to stop for a second. Anyway finally sitting down and catching up. I am so sorry about the sadness for everyone this weekend. Can I add to it (sorry!) - flat's fallen through. I know my mind hasn't changed and it's only a temp set back but I feel quite flattened. The landlord made impossible demands re money upfront because of lack of personal income, though I would have a guarantor. So, back to trawling the internet for somewhere suitable . FW has "clipped" dcs again today. The more I detach, the more I am disgusted by him and see him as the self important prat he is.

Yy, Bertie, was re-reading that chapter of that book only this morning and it fits fw well. Have you read this excellent post? That's chapter one of her book and you can read chapters 2 and 3 on the same blog. I think it's on the list at the top of the thread. Very therapeutic - I read most of that book this morning and had a good laugh (although some bits were very sobering, too).

DS was playing with Lego this afternoon. Held up two fingers topped with Lego hair at one point and said, "These are called FWs." On further questioning, it turned out he had named them finger wigs and then decided they needed an abbreviation! Quite a surprise, that was! :o

Oh no, trying - what a blow. You were so close!

Hello all, long time no post from me but still cheering you on from the sidelines!

I found out something about most recent ex fw tonight and i have to write it down lest i ever forget the message from the universe behind the news.

The man who was shaped like a beanpole for the decade i was with him is really fat now!!!

Not that i give a rats behind about what anyone weighs but when the person in question spent ten years picking on my weight and bodyshape and letting me know in so many subtle and not so subtle ways that i just wasn't perfect en
ough and never would be it's delightful evidence of some sort of karma at work!!

So, mr perfect who smugly put away a box of maltesers and a kingsize bar of dairy milk of an evening and never gained an ounce while telling me about all of the exersize regimes i should be following to lose weight (because he was just that body type to never have to you see) is not so perfect after all.

i never could work out how he was the only one in his family to be that body type and it also explains soo many other things that always puzzled me.

Yet again im left with the crystal clear realisation that it wasn't me, was never me and that i was merely a screen for someone else to project their insecurities and hang ups on to.

Well, no more of that for me!! it's taken three different families growing up and two long term abusive relationships for the message to finally sink in that its not me.

And its not you either! We're all perfect and lovely just as we are - its them!

Tickets to the far side of fuck for all the FW and a thank you for this safe space to share these thoughts.