Support for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships: 13

[CharlotteCollinsislost]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
www.heart-2-heart.ca/women/page1.htm heart to heart]] a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

I think so. Clearly I had a fabulous life with him and how dare I seem to not miss him. He says absence obviously doesn't make the heart grow fonder. I told him he clearly doesn't have a clue about why I've left. I feel like I have rejoined the 21st century after this 1950s existence I've been living.

And here we go again! Peace time is definitely over. He requested this morning that I let his 22 year old son move back into the house. This is the son that I kicked out due to his horrendous lack of respect two years ago. FW has to pay back a loan that his son defaulted on plus arrange fees for him to finish his college degree, so fw thinks that it would save money for his son to live here. So yes, I know money is tight and my work (self employed) has been very slow for the last couple of months. So I said I would consider it, nicely, gently, thoughtfully.

So while we were talking about money, I brought up the subject of money he owes to my now maxed out credit card. And he went off on a rant again before I could even finish my sentence. Went on about the costs of this and that, and how me being without work cost him an extra x amount last month and how all I have to do is buy food (plus all our dd's costs and his credit card loan, and my car insurance and tax, and car loan, and medical costs that he conveniently forgets about,). He followed this with he doesn't need a lecture on what's wrong with him and how all he gets out of this is a couple of pints a week, and how we'd have lots more fun if he wasn't around, and sure if he commited suicide then the insurance would cover the lot and maybe he should just sell the fucking house and on and on and on.

So I told him to sell the fucking house if that's what he wanted (he won't) and that all I wanted was a conversation without being shouted down the minute I opened my mouth, that I just wanted to chat but oh no, he is so afraid of being criticized.

And life goes on.....another weekend of silence.

Nodding along Matchsticks and Charlotte - my NSDH wants me to be pining away and struggling when he's not here too. He's been away for the last few days with work and comes home today . It's been bliss, I've eaten what I wanted, watched what I wanted, done studying I can't do when he's around as he makes me feel guilty. I've been happy. Even the cat's been happy since she's been sleeping on the bed with me every night.

Tonight, it will all change...

love, that sounds awful. It's so frustrating when they try to shout you down over financial issues. All down to this entitlement thing I think.

I'd suggest that despite the extra money you'd get, that you don't agree to his son moving in. I think the stress of it all (especially if he's already shown he doesn't respect you - and him moving back in will indicate that it's ok to disrespect you) just isn't something you need right now.

Another sleepless night last night FW did his usual 'quick pint' after work trick, he came home at 1am (early for him) but was really drunk, he only finishes work at 10pm so god knows how much he had to drink in that time. Anyway, when he came in the usual drunken nice FW was on duty talking about taking us all out for dinner, going on day trips with the kids etc etc. He then said he would sleep on the sofa as he's up for work early and I could have the bed so i could relax and quickly ushered me off to bed as he wanted to get to sleep for work in the morning. Fine. So an hour later, DS woke coughing and needed a drink, I sneaked downstairs so not to wake FW, what do I find? Him in the kitchen drinking from a bottle of sambuca from the drinks cupboard. I sneaked back and made some noise as if I was just coming down and when I got to the kitcgen again he had hidden the bottle and was pretending he was getting a glass of water. I asked him why the kitchen smelled of sambuca etc and he lied saying I was imagining it. It was all over the floor where he spilt it rushing to hide it away so he couldn't lie for long. Anyway cut a long story short we then had a row about him having a drinking problem and needing help and him denying it and me getting called all the names under the sun and telling me he would rather be dead and then we would be happy etc etc (similar to the suicide speech you got recently love). He has now this morning gone off to work at 7am-i physically don't know how he does it. He has now just sent a text asking if we can still take the kids out together for dinner etc. I have said ok as know if I say no he will just go off on another drinking session. I just don't know how to handle this situation. Its one thing having a few pints after work in the pub but the drinking in secret at home too. I am living with the real life phil mitchell

oh Maggie that sounds an awful situation to be dealing with....i wonder if he even realises he has a problem. it must be so hard if he isn't coming in till late, wondering how he will be when he comes in etc...

im really struggling at the minute, my pastor came to see me today, and said obviously they would try to help us get back together. i explained about emotional abuse, he knows about it. but today he didn't seem to take it too seriously. he said that dh would have to sort himself out. but he still seemed under the impression that should this happen we should get back together, and i didn't get the sense that it wasn't my fault. he is going to talk to dh and see where he stands. ive made it clear that he would need to go to counselling to deal with the way he treats me. but he has done nothing to show he realises theres been a big problem so far, or to make amends.

and the thing is, if dh suddenly DID turn around and think ok ill go and sort myself out, get the counselling etc, why should i just take him back just like that? now that hes decided to be nice? when ive done all the hard work with dd, (shes a crap sleeper and im not coping) i would have resentment i think, about getting back with him. not to mention the money ive been so careful with since we separated while he goes out and has a social life, all the nights sleep he's had, etc, and all the hurt. how can i just get over it all and get back with him just cos he's decided to do something about it. i did give him chance after chance after chance to sort it out, and he didn't.

im so tired and fed up. and wish i didn't feel under pressure, or feel sad about the marriage. i know its normal to feel really sad and disappointed about a failing marriage, and feel the strain of looking after dd alone, but it doesn't make it any easier.

i should mention that dh in the mean time had spoken to my pastor. i know he will be saying stuff about me to him to portray me in a negative light. but the pastor also said that he said he knows he did wrong. well if he knows he did wrong then why didn't he do anything about it??

Oh Jan please take what your pastor says with a pinch of salt. They don't have to live with your husband or go through what you have been through. Follow your gut instinst.

jan, that must be so tough, trying to cope without the support of your pastor, or at least with his misguided support! You are under NO compulsion to take him back if he got himself sorted out. But counselling isn't going to do it, anyway. Counselling comes from a position of support of the client - your h needs a big kick up the rear end instead! I intend to insist that the only way I'd consider giving my h yet another chance is if he completes an abusers' programme. That means two years of hard work, I believe, and then some substantial evidence of change.

This book was recommended to me and may be an interesting and educational read for your pastor, if he will accept the suggestion. One of its points is that the injured party should feel no compulsion to keep trying to save the marriage. There's also this one, which I have read so can recommend myself. I think it says much the same thing as the other one - it is written by a woman, though, which might reduce its importance in the eyes of your pastor. Just being practical!

your pastor might also like which is a bit dated but is based on Susan Forward's work,( Men who hate women and the Women who love them) and can be used as a work book if he is seeing your Ex. he would also be helped by Sharon james work summarised in evangelicals now www.e-n.org.uk/p-2695-Domestic-violence-and-the-church.htm

thank you ladies for your understanding and the information ....

i can't really give a coherent reply right now as i am so upset i can't stop crying. he just came to pick dd up and we had an argument... i had texted him asking him to bring her back at her bedtime otherwise she falls asleep in the car on the way home and gets a second wind when she gets in which really disrupts her nights sleep. he said he couldn't tomorrow. he is going out tomorrow night... he said something has to give with our arrangement, its too much for him he has a lot of pressure and is under stress. he sees her one day a week! and twice after work. i undersand he is under pressure, but i am also studying, and he has no clue what pressure im also under. then he said that i have so much more time than he has! he said he would have to bring her back early tomorrow. .. i said what if i was going out tomorrow night, he said well im her main carer so i should be doing it. ????

this proves he does not want to be part of her care. ive always felt she was a hassle to him. he wants contact lessened. and the pastor was going on about him taking her for the weekend to give me a break if it went through the courts? for a start he could 't handle it as he can't even take her one full day. second i wouldn't want her with him (i know she would be fine as his mum does it all) for a whole weekend cos he doesn't want her.

he says he has 'things to do' and i frigging don't? so he is changing the contact now. its never about what dd needs. dd needs a regular bedtime. its about his needs and his social life. i cannot stop crying tonight. all i can hear in my head is the words 'YOURE her carer'

and as i stood in the door way looking at him in obvious disbelief for the things he was saying, when he knew i wasn't happy with it, he says 'YOUVE really changed!' and i said 'and you haven't!" and shut the door.

i can't cope with this anymore. i feel so much hate for him at the minute and im a christian and its wrong. im so upset. thanks for listening

Jan it has taken me a long time to stop listening to the viewpoints of others, particularly those who excuse ex's behaviour and even try and shift the blame onto me.
You have, no doubt, behaved in a christian-like way during your marriage and been very poorly treated in return.
My final push was thinking I did not want my dc having our marriage as a blueprint for what their's should be like. I especially do not want ds to treat women as his dad has.
You have not 'failed' if you call time on your marriage. You will have taken the step to protect yourself and your dc from further psychological harm.
Work out what you want to do and be kind to yourself.

thanks Matchsticks, i phoned a friend tonight and she was really helpful and listened to me and was really supportive. i don't want to get back with him. its my gut instinct. im scared now to sort everything out and tell everyone. well done for having the motivation of your kids future as that final push to get your life going again...

i wish i could just get a life going again that didn't involve him but thats wishful thinking....im just tired and drained tonight. i could have been doing some stuff tonight but its been a complete write off as ive been so upset. so im just waiting for dd to come home now and go to bed....

i pray all of us will find our way out of these situations and find the peace we deserve

hilde it is hard to keep hanging on, keep living in hope, and then continually have your hopes dashed. if your sister really understood though maybe she wouldn't be saying the things she is saying.... people can think they understand but until they are experiencing the emotions going from one extreme to the other, constant ups and downs and all that goes with all of this, the feeling of your heart being ripped out, i don't think they can really be in a position to say too much....

its good that you are starting to think about your future... even imagining how it will be is a good start, thats where i started. im now separated, but i now need to make the next steps and imagine what its going to be like for me when we are legally separated and then divorced.. once i get ideas in my head, try to make them positive, get my head round it, then they will happen at the right time and it won't be as overwhelming.

Charlotte its so good to see that you seem much stronger now in yourself and seem to know what you want ... this whole process makes us a lot stronger doesn't it. they take any weakness out of you! my friend said yes ihave changed (cos he accused me of changing) and said yeah its cos i don't take the crap from him anymore!

thank you fool and lost for the book recommendations. im wiped out tonight. anyone else? !

for you, jan.

I'm feeling ok tonight. I invited myself round to a friend's for coffee this morning and confided in her. First time I've spoken frankly about the marriage to anybody I know irl!! She was very supportive and agreed he was abusive. Had wondered how I coped, just from what she'd seen of him, but was shocked to hear more of his behaviour. Really helpful to hear the perspective of someone in a healthy relationship - not least because she'll be a neighbour if I get this house I'm looking at next week!

hilde - are the drugs helping at all?!

oh Charolotte that is very very exciting!! and it helps tremendously to have the support in rl, to really be able to talk about it in person from someone who is in closer proximity - really gives more strength.

well he just brought her back, and said it was cruel me putting her to bed that late (9pm) when she was very tired. and that she should have no sleep during the day. probably this is also coming from his mum.

well thats fine for them to tell me how to raise my baby, and tell me its cruel, but they are not the experts, they are not the ones whose day starts at 4am, and quite frankly, every time i see him he is upsetting me. dd is 14 months, she still needs her lunchtime nap, she sleeps 40 mins a day. they are not the ones who have tried everything and are at their wits end with sleep.

im so frustrated i could scream. i really feel like i need to just get all this anger out. i know ill just go to bed and cry. i just want a divorce, i just want everything over and to never see him again. i know im acting like a child now. sorry. tantrum over.

No attempt from him to understand your schedule with her, or faith in your ability to look after her, just an attack with the underlying assumption that he knows better than you... So predictable, aren't they?

Practice and repeat, jan: "Yeah... probably... mmm... " To be used repeatedly every time you see him. Then "thanks for bringing her back" and shut the door. On his nose, if possible hahahaha. May not stop you getting upset, but will at least stop him seeing the effect he's having. Maybe it'll even work as well as it does with toddlers, and he'll get bored. We can but hope!

see i reacted. i couldnt help it... i said... 'so basically your saying im cruel now'
and he said 'think whatever you want' and slammed the door

i know i am not helping things. i just feel my blood boiling now every time he upsets me. i get so upset. ive been crying again and can;t seem to stop tonight. i need sleep and know i won't get much now cos im so upset.

i wish i was nice and calm enough to use those responses, they are very sensible. i will try to in the future... i need to stop reacting at him. i just don't know how to move on from here. should i just tell him i want to go down the legal route of separation now?

and im still worried about christmas. surely if he is wanting to have her just when it suits him, drop her back when it fits in to his schedule, and considers me as 'her carer' not him, surely i should get her all of christmas day, each year. he can have her boxing day. it would be different if he was actually sharing the care. if he isn't making sacrifices then he shouldn't be getting the rewards. how can i make this happen? can i just say, im having her on christmas day? surely that is so unreasonable of me.

im so sorry my head is melted tonight and every thing is going through my head. i don't know how to calm down.

Thinking of you all at the start of another FW-filled weekend...

jan it's the verbal manipulation related to the DCs that really gets to me too. It's like they know our Achilles Heel...the thing that will affect us most...are comments about our parenting abilities when they are the ones that have behaved atrociously

All is peaceful here as FW as gone out tonight. It's been a hard week though. We agreed a schedule for caring for DS last Friday and put it into action on Tuesday. FW has been fighting it all the way. I've dug my heels in about the daytime/bedtime routine but now he's constantly on at me about what happens overnight.

I'll explain... FW hates the fact that DS and I have a very close bond. Given the choice DS will chose me every time. FW reckons that it's only because I spent more time with DS than him yeah right...nothing to do with the fact that your behaviour frequently scares your son and has recently been trying to prove his theory by being Superdad and spending more time with DS.

Anyway...DS is not a good sleeper (never has been) and is an early riser. I've always done the night/early mornings as FW works so much harder than me and needs his sleep (can't believe i went along with this for 4 years!).

So FW has offered to do some of the 'night shift'...but (obviously) DS wants me instead. FW hates this and recently started insisting that if DS woke in the night he was 'not allowed' to come and see me unless of course it suited FW to have an undisturbed night and a lie in

There have been some awful nights in the past few months where I've woken to find DS sat on the stairs sobbing because he's woken up and isn't allowed to come and see me (and he doesn't want to go and see daddy). Heartbreaking

Last friday the wonderful mediator got FW to see that his attempt to control his 4-year-old son during the night was unreasonable if not downright cruel and she got him to agree that DS can go and see whoever he wants if he wakes during the night. He can go and see mummy or daddy...it's up to him.

Of course since them he's come to see me every night...,

FW is furious! I can tell he's going to explode soon. This morning I heard him get up...the first thing he did was go to DSs room to see if he was in there...i heard him mutter 'unbelievable'...he then burst into my room and had a go at me for 'allowing' DS into my bed...

He's told me that by co-sleeping I'm making DS very clingy...and a mummy's boy...

jan - I'm sorry. It's easy to see what to do when it's not your own situation; and I didn't mean to imply that you were handling it wrong. How he behaves is his own problem and you mustn't feel any responsibility for the verbal battering you keep having to endure. (I sometimes worry that I don't get emotionally involved enough - think my emotions are dangerously well buried most of the time.)

Yes, you can just say "I'm having her on Christmas Day." It is absolutely reasonable to give yourself that day where you can relax and know that he can't spoil it. But you may find it hard to stick to your guns if he resists. Try not to get drawn into conversation: be a broken record and play abuser bingo while he rants.

Bertie - what utter utter fw-ery. It's horrible, isn't it? They use the dcs as weapons and couldn't care less what damage they cause.

Christmas:
last year i micromanaged Christmas so that the DC could be with FW at his brother's with GPs on Christmas day and potentially Boxing day (so determined was I that I would not be called selfish, uncaring etc. and that DC should be with their larger family at Christmas) FW sabotaged it completely...fell out with his brother, moved out to GPs fell out with them was on own in holiday let,no way was he having the DC alone!! So i had them and he patched up enough with GPs for them to see him on boxing day.................since then contact has been stopped.

This year i am taking my lovely DC to my parents with my brother and I am not even feeling guilty.

Do the best thing for your DD Jan and let him think what he wants.

Hey everyone. Friday night again, how did that happen?

As usual, everyone's FW is being typically FWittish! FWs.

bertie - I hope you are relegating everything FW says to the 'he's just saying that to further his own ends' pile. NSDH used to tell me DS1 was a spoiled brat (he's sooooo not), and that when he'd cuddle up to me on the sofa, so his head his kind of resting on my chest (because of his height and my lack of it) I was more or less still breastfeeding him (he's 6...), and even suggested that his sister's partner made that comment not him, something I now seriously doubt. They will do anything to drive a wedge. They take it personally, because everything is personal. They don't care how they get their way, as long as they do, everything even their child is collateral. Try and ignore - if he gets a rise, he'll feel vindicated. Because that's how they work.
DS1 came into my bed for a cuddle this morning. Twas lovely. This did not happen ever ever in the time that I was with NSDH because he 'didn't allow him in our bed'. but it was ok for his girls to climb in with us. Enjoy cuddles with your son. You are providing him with a safe, secure environment when he needs reassurance, that's the most important thing.

Nini, hope you are coping ok with him being back.

Maggie - that's really concerning about his drinking, but it's a separate issue to his fwittery. Don't get involved. It's more of his stuff, focus on your plan.

hilde, hope your doc appt went well. Kids can be so direct I find... how's the WW going? I just made myself a nice roasted veg and chicken with cous cous dish, instead of my usual chips and chips and southern fried chicken. I feel quite virtuous!

jan - that all sounds awful, am thinking of you. Second that you take the 'this is how it is' approach. It's not unreasonable. And anyway, with our FWs, you can't have a normal discussion which is I guess how most people do this stuff - if you try and be reasonable, have a discussion, he'll just twist and turn it all against you and you'll end up with him having what he wants every time. It's so hard to be strong and be a little selfish when I think we're all the kind of people to put others first to a certain degree. But it's not selfish to put your own needs first sometimes, it's sensible. Practice what to say first, that might help.

Anyway, a quick (but long, sorry) in and out from me, am feeling a bit peaky (shivery, achey) so off to bed now.

Woops, too much stuff on strickthrough there! Sorry, head a bit off tonight...