End my 18 year arranged marriage?

[zombiemum]

I am looking for advice about my arranged marriage, I feel like I am going slowly crazy. Please be kind, I'm emotionally spent and frequently end up in tears lately.

My husband is from Pakistan, we have been married over 18 years. My parents knew I had no desire to be married, but married me off at 18, what I wanted simply didn't enter into the equation.

We have a DD age 9 and a DS age 4. The thing that is becoming more and more of a deal breaker for me is the fact that he is so slow to adapt and change. He speaks with a heavy accent, his written English, grammar and spelling is appalling, my DD writes better than he does. He understands that he should work on his language skills but is too lazy to do so. In fact, too lazy to do so just about sums him up.

Up until a few years ago, he went to work and came home, did a bit of hoovering, played with the kids and that was it. I, meanwhile, have spent years being constantly stressed out of my box doing all the household admin, everything to do with the car, solicitor, making appointments, researching the best products to buy; need a new car? I do all the research. Going on holiday? I do all the research, he?s happy to tag along but as soon as something goes wrong he criticizes and moans and gets angry that I should have known x, y or z was going to happen. I do all the problem solving, dealing with any tradesmen, any crisis that pops up I have to deal with because he just sits there looking like a frightened, lost little boy.

I was told frequently when I said I don't want to marry anyone from Pakistan, that I was making a fuss about nothing, they learn, they pick everything up when they're here and have to do it.

He is in a position of responsibility at work, works hard there, but is quite happy to have everything done for him at home. I have been a SAHM for the last 7 years but I started College last August as I want to change careers and need the skills that are required. I'm at College full time, on his two days off, he takes the kids to school etc, and does whatever needs to be done around the house.

I have just started a two year course. I will be actively looking for a full time job after this, plus my youngest will be at school. Money is tight.

Whenever we have problems he will not sit down and discuss things. He goes silent, won't talk and just shuts down. I end up losing my temper.

We have had huge problems in the past with him sending money home to his family without discussing these finances with me first, we have been on the verge of divorce many times. He is secretive and silent when it comes to this. But now I have kids, am a SAHM, I have no means to support myself and my parents have made it clear they want nothing to do with it.
 
The deal breakers for me are:

Has been approached many times by his bosses for promotion but won't go for it. He stepped down a level a few years ago blaming it on lack of support in his role, irresponsible staff, being constantly short- staffed and no time to train up all the new starts he had.
I have no respect for him.
He refuses to talk through any problems in our relationship; doesn't want to know. If pushed will immediately cry divorce knowing I have no means to support myself.
Stonewalls, ignores my feelings/emotions completely but thinks its okay to approach me for sex.
I feel utterly alone and bereft.

Its long, sorry.

[Silence]

Zombie - I find the best way is to ignore the silly remarks and concentrate on the decent ones.
On a forum as large as this there are bound to be a few -
HTH

[Flatbread]

Sorry Zombie. Maybe I was projecting. I went through a bad patch for seven years where I moved to a new country for dh where I literally knew no one. Plus I had given up my job for the move. I felt trapped and could just feel a scream building inside me. I felt deeply confused, angry and claustrophobic. The worst was I could see no way out, except adjusting my personality and ambition in making it work.

We have moved on and have a good marriage now. But I remember how much I hated him, my life, my situation. Luckily he was willing to fight for our marriage and make it work.

[Flatbread]

And tbh, I think you do sound very angry, stressed and out of balance, which is natural. Not sure though why you are getting angry at posters who are providing you their own perspectives and experiences.

No one is being malicious here.

[Flatbread]

And Zombie, just to provide you one more perspective you may not appreciate.

My experience of anger and claustrophobia came from a situation similar to your dh's, in a way. I moved to a new continent for my dh. I had to learn a new language and a new culture. He, on the the hand, was within his comfort zone. I hugely resented him for that.

Everything was new to me, especially the cultural nuances, and I felt like an outsider, a nobody. I was in a very successful career and I left that and moved for him. There were years I was seriously depressed, couldn't get off the couch. DH would come home after a long day and clean and make dinner, because I couldn't care less.

It worked out because dh was very patient and pulled be along till I found my own feet. And at core, we loved and respected each other and wanted to make it work.

Cross-continent marriages come with so many problems, especially if one partner is moving to the other one's home territory.

[zombiemum]

With all due respect Flatbread, 18 years is a long time.

I have tried everything.

Where there is no communication, only silence, there can be no progress.

You both sound like equals. We are completely mismatched at every level.

I have tried with my heart and soul to make it work.

I'm not getting angry, I'm curious as to why you would think I would wish to hurt people that have hurt me? What would I gain from that?

[GreatAuntMaud]

"GreatAuntMaud I'm glad you are happy in your arranged marriage presumably arranged with great care and attention to detail by loving caring parents. Lucky you.
Thanks for negating my suffering into that of a self obsessed teenager with nothing better to do than practice a bit of islam bashing.
Once upon a time I was as passionate about defending my culture and faith as you are now. Not any more.
I realise you cannot bear to hear your culture being bad mouthed in this way. I understand.
Islam has nothing to do with this, it is about a patriarchal culture, uneducated abusive misogynistic parents inflicting damage left, right and centre with no regard for their own flesh and blood.
I cannot even imagine treating my kids like that."

Well now you've made me quite angry at your false assumptions. Where did I say that you had "nothing better to do than practice a bit of islam bashing."? I didn't even so much as mention Islam. As for defending my culture and not bearing to hear my culture being bad mouthed in this way, I AM NOT A PAKISTANI, SO I AM SORRY BUT I DON'T GIVE A MONKEY'S ABOUT YOUR CULTURE BEING BAD MOUTHED. I don't even come from a Muslim country so you can stop flattering yourself that I am defending the culture that you yourself seem to dislike.

[GeekLove]

Zombiemum hope you are ok. Please ignore the bun fighting it looks like some haven't read all your OP.
Maybe you could try MN local and see if there anyone local although it still is under development.

As for your marriage its not like he checked out more like he never checked in. He sounds like someone who sees you as a person and a vessel and he probably resents the fact you DO have a plan for life. You can mix and be friends with people from both communities. He resents your strength and initiative because he expects to have it all done for him. As a result he has ended up with learned helplessness which you have unwittingly enabled. I know how exhuasting it is being a cheerleader ALL THE TIME ( have memoirs of holding xbfs hand on going to the Job Centre, writing a CV, getting a counceling appointment ).
Time to invest energy to yourself and family. Think about where you want to be in a years time.
Also you need to check on what exactly your marriage status is before you start any proceedings.

[zombiemum]

Abitwobblynow as for "You seem to have no idea what living in a patriarchal third world is like for women".
Your words GreatAuntMaude: "I am a woman, from the patriarchal third world, in an arranged marriage, so I'm going to ignore the rest of your post. "

Not your words? Yes? No? Maybe?

My apologies, when you said you were a woman from the patriarchal third world in an arranged marriage, I thought you were muslim in an arranged marriage.

Anyone else confused by GreatAuntMaude?

[GeekLove]

I am also confused by Great Aunt Maude too. Hope you are able to get some useful info from this thread.

[GreatAuntMaud]

Did you think that coming from a Third World country meant you are a Muslim? . I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Especially at the "Anyone else confused by GreatAuntMaud?" comment. FYI I'm from Sri Lanka.

I don't think my conversation is adding anything helpful to your situation so I'm out. I wish you all the best.

[zombiemum]

GeeklLove, so true I could cry.

"He never checked in"

He didn't, he never checked in.

[zombiemum]

GreatAuntMaude

My apologies; I'm glad you are happy with your arrangement and wish you all the best. But you insinuated a lot when you described me as a self obsessed teenager. Maybe my story seems so off the chart unbelievable to you that you compared it to something out of 'Take A Break' magazine.

You couldn't make this shit up, trust me.

[Romilly70]

Zombie, you do sound really upset and with 18 years of a (to put it mildly) frustrating marriage and unsupportive parents and sisters to boot it is understandable. I think some of the comments made by posters; you may have misconstrued so try not to get too upset.

This thread has somewhat descended into a bit of culture bashing which is a shame as there has been a lot of very good advice and support for you here too.

I am wondering whether it is worth starting a new thread asking for specific support for a single mum who is looking to continue further education and also how to leave the marriage in as good financial shape as possible.

Then you wouldn't need to mention the cultural origins of your marriage, as to be honest you yourself have drawn a line under your marriage and your parents and I think it is the cultural issues which are getting people all riled.

[Flatbread]

Zombie, I am not saying you should make it work. Not at all. It seems both of you are incompatible.

Regarding hurting your parents, I worded it badly but I meant making them feel/acknowledge the pain they have caused. Really feel your distress and realise the enormity of their stubborn, thoughtless actions. The impact it is having on four lives, two of which are fully innocent in this mess. If your parents don't care and are not sorry at all, how do you get emotional closure regarding what they did to you...

Like I said before, I wish you all the best. You seem like a strong, determined person.

[Flatbread]

If you cut-out the Islam/Pakistani bit, you are left with a cross-continental marriage which itself is fraught. Add in different languages and vastly different cultures, and it becomes even more difficult.

I moved from the US to France. Sounds easy? It has been bloody difficult. I find the language maddening, the culture isolating, the food bland, the shopping dismal and I could go on and on. I especially hate the fact people look at dh and answer when I ask a question and that I sound like an imbecile sometimes because I don't know the language nuances. (And I can sense dh inwardly wincing or embarrassed about it). I have a PhD from any ivy league university, for god's sake! And yet, so often, I feel invisible, an appendage to dh...

My neighbours (and my sanity-savers) are a French-American couple. She is French and her husband is American. He has lived in France for 30 plus years and you know he is an American from a mile off. He has a lovely nasal/ Bostonian twang and he still prefers to read/speak in English. My French is not tip-top, but at least I am getting the accent right while he goes on oblivious to his strong drawl. I have seen some French people snigger when he speaks, which is very mean. It is such a relief for me to speak with him, have common reference points and just feel completely comfortable.

It is bloody hard being a foreigner, especially when your spouse 'gets it all' effortlessly. I have a theory that two people from different cultures should live in a third, far-flung country where they both have to struggle with the basics. Otherwise it is so easy for the resentment to build up on both sides.

[Abitwobblynow]

"Arranges marriages are VERY different to forced marriages.
zombies is obviously a forced marriage.

I wish people would not use the term arranged to describe forced marriages."

Well said, Sili. That is absolutely the distinction.

There is a lovely muslim comedy made in South Africa, called Materiaal, where the frustrated hero says 'I want to marry her' and the grumpy father says 'you don't just marry her, you marry the whole family'.

ABSOLUTELY TRUE! Because 'the whole family' means the culture of that family, the way they deal with problems, how they approach difficulties (and he WILL revert to this). I think this is something every girl (qualification required: human being) needs to be told. [When I met my MIL I should have run!].

[Silibilimili]

flatbread, you are so right. It is worse when it Is considered funny/uncool to have an accent from India/Pakistan/Sri Lanka/Bangladesh.

op I see your irritation even in your posts to people who are trying to understand/advice etc. is this how you are like at home too? With you kids? That also must make you miserable.
I think for your sanity, you need to share all this with a real person in real life that you trust not to be judgemental.
18 years of little niggles that mount up are not good for your health not your DCs.

[Flatbread]

I know, Sili.

The funny thing is, the people who were sniggering don't really speak English at all (They live in our neighbourhood and I have helped with their son's English homework). Yet they thought it was ok to snigger at someone who made an effort to be bilingual.

[Corygal]

Zombie, been thinking of you. Internet no good today for me. I'm not surprised you're tetchy - who wouldn't be.

People on here get very worked up about the nitty gritty of cultural issues, which in other circs would be great but here leads to sidelining you and the main issues, your wellbeing and the solutions you so urgently need. Rudeness to you as a result is adding insult to injury, by the way.

I know it's hard & I do get you - you've just got to get out, and you know that. Start saving, and getting advice IRL.

[zombiemum]

I am gobsmacked, utterly gobsmacked that everyone has focused and homed in on the accent and ignored everything else.

I think I seriously need to consider moving IN to an asian area, make life easier.

There is no domestic violence therefore your feelings are invalid Zombie, go away, make yourself useful and stop whining.

Arranged marriages are wonderful, stop badmouthing them.

When I see successful people in all walks of life living life, going after their goals, having fun, being fully functioning independant capable adults it fills me with admiration and an accent makes that person even more interesting and more cause for admiration. I take my hat off to them.

My Dh is none of the above. Posters have insinuated that I am to blame for his depression and lack of motivation.

When he first came here I suggested it would be wise to enrol on an English as a second language course, get to know the culture, the lay of the land so to speak but he wasn't interested. Wanted to get straight to work so he could start sending money home. I was working full time and was perfectly able to support him for the duration of the course.

I know now that you cannot change a person, they are what they are. The person you have in front of you is all you have to work with, accept it or move on. I have decided to move on as I cannot accept that this is my life for the remainder of my days.

[SoSoMamanBebe]

Zombie, honestly? Keep it together and plan your safe exit. This is the internet. Some folks are mad, bad and dangerous to know. Call for help and get some sensible advice from a prof.

[Silibilimili]

zombie, I would look into how to get your divorce as a first measure. Does it have to be done in pakistan? British friend of mine who got married in India had to go to India 2x for his divorce. What is the procedure?
Who would look after your kids if you had to go? Will they be safe if you ale them there? How safe will you be from his relatives?

Good luck. Wish you well.

[GaramMasalaGirl]

zombie I've been lurking since the beginning of your thread and have been wanting to post and have finally worked up the courage to do so.

I too had a forced marriage when I was 17 yrs old and taken to India for what was meant to be a holiday. When I found out what my parents had planned I went on hunger strike, I'm a greedy fucker though so only managed a few days cut myself, tried to ring the Police in the UK...anything to avoid being married off to an uneducated man 9 years older than me.

My plan was to get back to the UK and do a runner but by the time I got back I was pregnant and beaten down and thought that I had to accept my fate.

The marriage was horrific, domestic violence, emotional and financial abuse. All our money went to his family in India...all of it. I worked like a donkey, doing manual labour, sometimes 7 days a week and struggled to buy things for my 2 children (I had 2 by then), but ALL our money went on his family in India who were living it large with the money I earned whilst I struggled to feed my children.

I had asked my family for help in the early years and was very quickly put in my place, I don't blame my mum, she was as much a victim of my psychotic father as I was.

Anyway...the point of me telling you my story is:

1. I get the whole 'being embarrassed about the accent' thing. I too was deeply embarrassed by the way my ex-h talked, behaved, dressed etc. That isn't because we're heartless bitches, it's because we were forced into this weird relationship with someone you don't love. I'm not sure if I'm explaining it properly, let me try again, it's because there's no love there that every little thing that you would usually find endearing in a 'normal' relationship is highly irritating and frustrating instead.
   

1. I have now been divorced for 12 years after 12 years of wasting my life. One of the biggest regrets of my life is that I did not have the balls to end it earlier, I thought I'd be scarring my children by exposing them to divorce and was scared I wouldn't cope as a single parent. In the end I walked away with nothing, just a few clothes for us and some toys for the children.
   

1. Since then, I have completed an undergraduate degree, a post grad degree, qualified in a highly regarded profession and am currently doing my masters. I achieved this on my own, with little assistance, no family guidance and even less money.
   

4.During my marriage I went to India twice and was always sad that I would never have the chance to see another part of the world. My ex only ever wanted to spend money on going to India. In the last few years I have been away on some amazing holidays and seen and done things I never ever imagined I would.

5.It wasn't until last year, after 11 years of being divorced that it actually occurred to me that what had happened to me was a 'forced marriage'. I'm not sure why that realisation took so long, maybe I was culturally brain washed?

6.I am now in a happy relationship and have been for a few years to a man who is Muslim but was born and brought up here. Incidentally, he was also forced into an arranged marriage at 17 years old, yes it happens to young men too! I can't begin to explain how different it is to be with someone you love, someone you have chosen for yourself. We can talk and debate and sing songs together! We can watch the telly together and laugh at the same jokes! We can argue about politics, religion, the price of cheese...you name it.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is...I get it and even though you're marriage doesn't have the same issues that mine did, I understand that hollow feeling you have inside you when you feel alone and the yearning that somewhere out there, there is someone who truly loves you and you love back and the stunned acceptance that even if that person knocked on your door tonight there's nothing you can do because you're trapped in a situation that someone else forced you into.

So... Plan your exit carefully, make your move when it suits you but DO get out and start to live the rest of your life the way you would have chosen to live it. You can do it.

[GaramMasalaGirl]

Crikey!...that was a bit long!

[Flatbread]

it's because there's no love there that every little thing that you would usually find endearing in a 'normal' relationship is highly irritating and frustrating instead

This.

What struck me though, is how OP only seems to see things from her perspective without even acknowledging that others might have validity.

She has dismissed her husband as being lazy for not adapting culturally. Does she really think it is so easy to fit into a foreign culture and language? How many countries has she lived in exactly, that she is so contemptuous of the efforts her husband has made and deems them inadequate?

She keeps saying how she was forced, but what about her husband? Did he have a real choice? Was he forced by family pressures and financial need? It must have been frightening for him too, coming to a new country, having to find a job, learn a new language and adjusting to a marriage with a partner who resented him.

I don't see anyone on this thread telling OP to stay married to this guy. But at some point she has to let go of this anger. And part of it might be seeing things from his perspective.