End my 18 year arranged marriage?

[zombiemum]

I am looking for advice about my arranged marriage, I feel like I am going slowly crazy. Please be kind, I'm emotionally spent and frequently end up in tears lately.

My husband is from Pakistan, we have been married over 18 years. My parents knew I had no desire to be married, but married me off at 18, what I wanted simply didn't enter into the equation.

We have a DD age 9 and a DS age 4. The thing that is becoming more and more of a deal breaker for me is the fact that he is so slow to adapt and change. He speaks with a heavy accent, his written English, grammar and spelling is appalling, my DD writes better than he does. He understands that he should work on his language skills but is too lazy to do so. In fact, too lazy to do so just about sums him up.

Up until a few years ago, he went to work and came home, did a bit of hoovering, played with the kids and that was it. I, meanwhile, have spent years being constantly stressed out of my box doing all the household admin, everything to do with the car, solicitor, making appointments, researching the best products to buy; need a new car? I do all the research. Going on holiday? I do all the research, he?s happy to tag along but as soon as something goes wrong he criticizes and moans and gets angry that I should have known x, y or z was going to happen. I do all the problem solving, dealing with any tradesmen, any crisis that pops up I have to deal with because he just sits there looking like a frightened, lost little boy.

I was told frequently when I said I don't want to marry anyone from Pakistan, that I was making a fuss about nothing, they learn, they pick everything up when they're here and have to do it.

He is in a position of responsibility at work, works hard there, but is quite happy to have everything done for him at home. I have been a SAHM for the last 7 years but I started College last August as I want to change careers and need the skills that are required. I'm at College full time, on his two days off, he takes the kids to school etc, and does whatever needs to be done around the house.

I have just started a two year course. I will be actively looking for a full time job after this, plus my youngest will be at school. Money is tight.

Whenever we have problems he will not sit down and discuss things. He goes silent, won't talk and just shuts down. I end up losing my temper.

We have had huge problems in the past with him sending money home to his family without discussing these finances with me first, we have been on the verge of divorce many times. He is secretive and silent when it comes to this. But now I have kids, am a SAHM, I have no means to support myself and my parents have made it clear they want nothing to do with it.
 
The deal breakers for me are:

Has been approached many times by his bosses for promotion but won't go for it. He stepped down a level a few years ago blaming it on lack of support in his role, irresponsible staff, being constantly short- staffed and no time to train up all the new starts he had.
I have no respect for him.
He refuses to talk through any problems in our relationship; doesn't want to know. If pushed will immediately cry divorce knowing I have no means to support myself.
Stonewalls, ignores my feelings/emotions completely but thinks its okay to approach me for sex.
I feel utterly alone and bereft.

Its long, sorry.

[ajuba]

OP, you can still allow your kids to have a relationship with their dad and allow him access. You wouldn't need to necessarily eliminate him from their lives altogether. But I do know what you mean, I think about these things all the time and it stops me doing what your thinking of doing. By the sounds of it, it sounds like your kids are better off not having your parents in their lives so don't feel guilty about that.

[Romilly70]

Hi OP,
Really sorry that you are in this situation.
It sounds like you and your H are complete strangers; he has not adjusted the cultural ways of his native Pakistan and treats you like a chattel, but benefits from your western education & upbringing to help himself and his family.

I would however say that your H does not sound like a bad father and perhaps with some mediation, you could divorce but still maintain a cordial relationship for the children. Hopefully he can continue to care for them on his days off.

Have found this link for help with single parents in higher education
www.gingerbread.org.uk/factsheet/14/Money-for-further-education-students

What are you studying (if it is not outing you too much)

I would confide in your English friends, as you say it is probably obvious that your marriage was arranged and as it looks like you will not get support from your family, you do need people in RL you can turn to.

Good luck and keep posting, there is such brilliant advice on mumsnet

[Abitwobblynow]

Hi ZM, a book I could really recommend to you is Lundy Bancroft Should I Stay or Should I Go? It is the clearest thing I have ever read about what you should expect in life, what he needs to do to change, how to check whether you are part of the problem, how to assess whether he is putting the work in to change, and then how to move forwards to your goals.

All I can say is, take your time and PLAN. You are already striking out for a sense of self, well done! You are on a course, you identify that your family are another drain and do you harm. I hear such strength and determination coming from you.

So now, get the paperwork together and start squirrelling money away. Buy cheaper groceries, put the rest aside (plus a little bit of cashback). Buy expensive stuff like washing powder and cleaning products etc for when you go.

This is what you need: the money to pay a solicitor, and at least 3 months' worth of rent and bills saved up.As long as you have a plan, you can set a goal and move towards it. You go, girl!

[Monstroneous]

Hmm, the problem I guess, is that your husband has been unable to grow and develop as much as you have - he just doesn't have the stomach for it.

Whereas you are still keen to learn, and enjoy life, he is content to sit back. I'm not sure its something you can sort out via relationship counselling etc etc, as you have simply outgrown him.

there will be facilities available to you as someone who doesn't earn at present - including, I think, legal aid: I would make an appointment with citizens advice bureau and/or a solicitor to find out.

Oh, and don't close off your existing support networks: no shame in admitting that you had an arranged marriage whatsoever.

[zombiemum]

Abitwobblynow, thanks for recommending that book, its actually on my list. I have some money saved up but will need it to buy myself an old banger when we separate. Its hard to save anything but will certainly focus on it more.
He is a good father- the kids think the world of him; For me it is like living with a child. He doesn't have an intellectual bone in his body and the constant silence is suffocating me. I can't even have a conversation with him in English without translating most of it and even then he just doesn't 'get' the colloquial phrases/sayings-I just give up, the conversation can never flow because he does not have the capacity for conversation, everything has to be shallow and superficial or he just doesn't understand.
Romilly, we are like strangers, I refuse to share a bed with him anymore as I just end up feeling so violated and used when the next day, week, month he just goes about life without discussing our problems, constantly ignoring the elephant in the room, so to speak.
I've been through every stage imaginable; denial, hope, blame, I've tried to help him with his language skills but you can't help someone who just simply cannot be arsed.
I have an appointment next week to seek welfare advice, I'm trying to piece together the jigsaw of what I might be entitiled to and when I have all the information I need I can decide what to do. I cannot comprehend the shame of being on benefits, I feel like such a failure, but I don't see any other choice.
I have been to CAB, they gave me a list of solicitor's in the area and couldn't advise me any further.

[Snorbs]

zombiemum, there's a list of organisations that may be able to offer advice here. Rights of Women will also be able to offer support and advice.

Good luck.

[awbless]

OP where are you? There are some really good agencies/support agencies in North West to help women in your position.

There will be a pastoral/student support officer in your college, find out who they are and ask to speak them, they will be able to help. It will be confidential and they will know who and where the local support is.

[Silibilimili]

op this is not about whether the marriage was arranged or not. I sense a little resentment that it was arranged, so even if you did fall in love a little at some point, the arranged bit is always hanging there in your mind. Do you think he senses this and therefore does not put in his 100% either? So you live like strangers in your own home, living parallel lives?
Divorce is a big step. Specially with kids. But you cannot go on living this way. I would try relate as a first step.

[Corygal]

OP, English friends won't judge you for a second about arranged marriages - particularly the posh ones. I tried to message you last night about my mate's story, which has similarities to yours and a happy ending, but the site crashed.

Here goes again. She was married by agreement but not choice to a bloke from her parents' village in Pakistan. The wedding was phenomenal - we were taken out 3x alone in a week - her mum would have blown Danny Boyle & the Olympics out of the water. Husband settles in Essex & does nowt except send his cousins vast TVs and his mum bagfuls of gold jewellery. Mate not keen. But she got out - crucially, with advance planning.

She used our accountant at work (English, since you ask, Old Etonian) to work out how much it would cost to leave. She talked to a lawyer about booting DH out. She got a second job and saved the cash, and walked, not telling anyone much except 'It didn't work out.' She didn't complain, she didn't explain - made things a lot simpler.

In yr shoes I wd talk to the college about Elizabeth Finn grants (huge charity) and get any sort of job or homeworking to squirrel up some cash.

[zombiemum]

Silibili yes i do feel resentment; but towards my parents for exchanging me like goods. I was taken to Pakistan in the summer holidays and married off, I have taken longer to find the right clothes for a night out.
Does he sense resentment? Course he does, I've expressed my disappointment and anger many times when I'm constantly left to deal with the day to day crap all the time. I remember juggling newborn baby, exhausted from lack of sleep and having to deal with estate agents/solicitors/viewers/sorting out then house for viewing with absolutely no input from him whatsoever. Never mind input, total apathy and disinterest. That's just one example.
Extreme situations do not allow for hand holding and stroking his ego. Yes he's stubborn and uses silence as a weapon. I am not the kind of woman to pander to a man's fragile ego-I'm too busy dealing with and coping with all the shit he won't do.
Yes we live parallel lives now. I have considered Relate but as per, he goes silent and refuses to communicate. Can't see him do a whole lot of talking when we go for counselling.

[Corygal]

Also, your parents may come round once you have separated. If you can face seeing them, they can help, and both them and yr DCs may benefit from the relationship. Keep the sisters on side for now. You really don't deserve any more isolation, and anyway, family are meant to be relations not soul mates.

You are blaming every family member you have. THAT IS FINE - I mean, who wouldn't - BUT bear in mind when you're on the other side of the door you won't be able to do that any more.

DH and your family won't be responsible for your unhappiness any longer. You'll have to let go of a lot of the blaming - speaking as a terrific blamer, I know how annoying that is to hear, but in the long term one feels much better. Scary, yes, but a brilliant chance to start anew.

You're going to have to make a go of a new life yourself. So spend time now working out what you want before you slip away. You are very alone, and it's hard - be nice to yourself

[zombiemum]

Thank you corygal, I'm hoping to have an appointment in place with the college next week. I will definitely take seriously the advice about putting money away.
FWIW, I came on to Mumsnet to ask for advice because I find it so hard to speak to anyone in real life about my problems, I've kept it in for so long that its beginning to damage me in ways I could never have imagined. My GP wanted to prescribe anti-depressants but I took the counselling route instead which really helped. I have also recently been diagnosed with an underlying health condition that I know deep down stems from this misery.

[Silibilimili]

Also, another way to look at this is, this can happen to white/non Asian/ non arranged marriage situations too. Leave the reasons aside. White men can be like this too. This has nothing to do with the guy being from Pakistan. You can get white guys who do not want to continue to grow. It is more relevant from reading your post that you do not find him attractive. It is tough being on your own. Specially with little money and 2 kids. I am not trying to put you off the path that you may decide to take but just pointing out that within a marriage and outside of a marriage, in life in general, it is up to you to make yourself happy. Someone else cannot do this for you, nor take it away. Do not expect to be 'happy' unless you put in an effort to be after separating. Happiness you seek is within you. Hiding somewhere. Coax it out. Secure your children and their future. X

[Corygal]

Pfff, OP, that's all you need at the moment - an effing health condition. Life on a stick. Maybe now is the time to look on the bright side for a moment:

Yes, the very thought of leaving is knackering. But that is because you are smart and taking it seriously, which is the best possible thing you could be doing right now.

You will survive if you leave your husband.

You may even find yourself feeling better than you could have imagined.... I reckon you will.

You may remarry and have a fantastic second marriage. Whether that happens or not, you're on the way to a miles better second career.

Right now, it's all going in the right direction for you, believe it or not.

Re awful family; yup, the Pakistan trip is pretty bad behaviour by your parents, even allowing for cultural differences, but the awful truth is that parents screw up regardless of yer culture and that. Many parents screw up badly. And thank goodness you're not sitting there saying 'where did i go wrong, I chose that man and it turns out he is not the one'.

I just don't know what to suggest about to how to deal with your parents. Again, regardless of culture, a lot of parents just aren't that supportive - which is rubbish. Grieve for it, but don't spend a lot of time on it. You've got better things to think about.

A lot of the older generation do go in for things like denial of marital problems or endlessly urging unhappy couples to stay together - because that's how fixed their beliefs are. My own mum, who is as English as they come, howls for couples to stay together come what may, which really means she tells the women to put up and shut up. I wince, but it's a generational thing. You don't have to take it seriously. If your parents aren't much good, you're not missing much by not seeing them, to be honest.

To repeat; you're right up against the wall now, but your life is moving to a better place.

[zombiemum]

Corygal, I know I am isolating myself, hence my hesitation. I'm puzzled by the family are meant to be relations not soul mates, though.
My parents are both abusive, toxic, misogynistic people. I have been told in no unclear terms the level to which I disgust them and bring shame on the family.

[Silibilimili]

Then it can't get any worse can it zombie? Concentrate on one problem at a time. If they have always been toxic, why do you expect them to change now?! On their view, they brought you up well, found you a lovely husband who has a job and is good to the kids, does not shout, answer back etc, treats you well (in that there is no physical abuse). What more do you need in life?!
See what I mean? So lower your expectations of your relatives and find good friends.

[Silibilimili]

You will need a life overhaul if you take this path. Be prepared for this.
Tackle the depression problem too. Are you talking regular exercise and eating well? Focus on trying to enjoy the little things in life.
X

[Corygal]

Oh that's APPALLING - I can't believe they said that. A lot of those generational values are very rude, partic to women, and you don't have to put up with that sort of behaviour. Under the very same values, incidentally, your parents have a duty to support you and your grandchildren, which they seem to have conveniently forgotten. Leave them to stew for a bit.

What I mean was re family - you have to take the rough with the smooth, a bit. Don't think that you have to be the same as each other just because you share bits of a genome. Family is an accident of birth, whereas friends are through choice. Given that you, of all people, know rather too much about being yoked up with incompatible people, what I'm saying is that it's probably better not to expect too much from your nearest and dearest. That's so sad, but it's probably easier in the long run.

Mind you, from your last post, I would be tempted to accept that yr parents have moments of being deeply unimpressive and keep away from them for a bit. You're not missing much.

[Listaddict]

Hi zombiemum, I'm in a crappy relationship too and have known I need to get out of it for a long time now. It's easier to stay even though it's shit, and I'm just scared of ... I don't know. Just scared of perhaps, being happy, being unhapy,...
Unlike you I actually chose someone who my family didn't approve of. I gave up everything, not just because of him but because it was easier to with him. I wanted to just be a nothing and it suited me.
I'm not happy and truth be told I was never happy. Like you I'm the one who has to do all the leg work and I fu&&ing resent him for it. I look at other people with envy and think how the hell did I end up with someone who cant even pay a damn bill, how do other people have guys who they can leave to manage stuff in life. My OH has been in and out of prison and is still there now, and still manages to suck the life out of me, even now. (Going to post a thread for help / advice on here soon). I guess like I said, it was just easier to stay and you hope they'll change, and one day miraculously they'll have bought a house, sorted the finances out, planned and booked a holiday, taken care of all the admin stuff, deal with everyone and evrything that needs doing, but really, it won't happen. If they don't give a shit by now, and in your case by 18 years, they never will.
It's hard, especially when you feel like you;re on your own, I'm sat here crying because I have no-one to talk to and know family will think I'm a muppet as I'm constantly fighting with him so they'll think 'here we go again' and I have no friends as I cut them off.
I know someone close to our family who went into an arranged marriage to a professional. Both pakistani. Anyway, depsite leaving school with poor grades, and having a young DD, she left him, did her exams and ended up with a law degree from Cambridge. he had to slum it though. But looks who's laughing now.
It can be done. Maybe not today or tomorrow but you know you deserve better and you know, hopefully, that life can be better without someone leaching it all from you. Be strong. And know you deserve better. Hugs, hugs, hugs.

[Silibilimili]

Life is not all about having an English accent either. It helps to blend in but means nothing. There is nothing to be embarrassed about having a Pakistani accent. Hat if you had married an Italian who after 20 years of living in the uk still has his accent?
The big problem I see in your marriage is that you feel you are doing everything. Do you get any time with each other op? Without the kids? Have you got comfortable in a rut, where the kids Matter and nothing else does?

[Silibilimili]

All I am trying to say is, let go of this cultural bond. It's a great culture but seems it binds you and makes you feel a lot of guilt for wanting to 'live' instead of exist.
You will feel better for it. Sort one thing out at a time. In a book, give yourself aims. Break down the big ones into achievable ones.
Try and I manage what you can control, let other things go. Move away from an Asian area for a while if it means you can have a fresher start. I would plan this out like a project. With a schedule.
At the end of it, you will have a life that is within your control. Your terms.
Xx

[zombiemum]

Guys, I had a serious reality check this past year regarding family, I do not expect anything from my parents and only went to them out of desperation.
I must live in a particularly family orientated area, where no matter what, families help each other no matter how badly a son or daughter has behaved-that is what I see around me every day. I know this is not my lot, I accepted that no help would ever be forthcoming in that way aeons ago and that is the reason why I have been stuck in this marriage for so long.
Thanks for clarifying Corygirl.
Silibili we don't have alone time without the kids, no. Even before the kids came along he had absolutely nothing to say. I know I am not the most fun person to be around at times but he doesn't even try. It is the total lack of conversation that frustrates me. The stuff he does come out with is so simplistic and child like it leaves me speechless at times.

[Corygal]

Funnily enough, I don't think you have to let go of any of your cultural allegiances to make a new start.

I just think you have to let go of individual people, which is terribly sad for you and quite enough of a challenge for anyone. But it will bring you to a better place.

[zombiemum]

Silibili I am so far from being in an asian area it makes me laugh. I live in a predominately white area and an asian face is rare. I am making some fantastic new friends at college and for the first time in ten years feel like myself again.
I am trying to blend the bost of both cultures for my kids. I am mystified by certain aspects of Pakistani culture and have no desire to live my life in this way.

[Corygal]

How bloody depressing and lonely for you. It must be awful seeing other people in the warm bosom of the family, I must say I do get a pang myself when I see women whose families run to their aid in times of need, or even in times of running out of milk.

Your reaction to your family has been brilliant, I have to say. You have entirely taken on board they're not that sort of family, which is a very brave and hard thing to do, particularly when you're thinking you want to make a move to rescue your life and you need their help to do it. Most people go on desperately banging on the door.

Thing is, you can do this on your own. It's not that unusual either - a hell of a lot of people do set up on their own with their kids without parents on tap 24:7. A lot of parents are too old or too grumpy or too selfish to help. Leaving and setting up afresh remains perfectly possible.