End my 18 year arranged marriage?

[zombiemum]

I am looking for advice about my arranged marriage, I feel like I am going slowly crazy. Please be kind, I'm emotionally spent and frequently end up in tears lately.

My husband is from Pakistan, we have been married over 18 years. My parents knew I had no desire to be married, but married me off at 18, what I wanted simply didn't enter into the equation.

We have a DD age 9 and a DS age 4. The thing that is becoming more and more of a deal breaker for me is the fact that he is so slow to adapt and change. He speaks with a heavy accent, his written English, grammar and spelling is appalling, my DD writes better than he does. He understands that he should work on his language skills but is too lazy to do so. In fact, too lazy to do so just about sums him up.

Up until a few years ago, he went to work and came home, did a bit of hoovering, played with the kids and that was it. I, meanwhile, have spent years being constantly stressed out of my box doing all the household admin, everything to do with the car, solicitor, making appointments, researching the best products to buy; need a new car? I do all the research. Going on holiday? I do all the research, he?s happy to tag along but as soon as something goes wrong he criticizes and moans and gets angry that I should have known x, y or z was going to happen. I do all the problem solving, dealing with any tradesmen, any crisis that pops up I have to deal with because he just sits there looking like a frightened, lost little boy.

I was told frequently when I said I don't want to marry anyone from Pakistan, that I was making a fuss about nothing, they learn, they pick everything up when they're here and have to do it.

He is in a position of responsibility at work, works hard there, but is quite happy to have everything done for him at home. I have been a SAHM for the last 7 years but I started College last August as I want to change careers and need the skills that are required. I'm at College full time, on his two days off, he takes the kids to school etc, and does whatever needs to be done around the house.

I have just started a two year course. I will be actively looking for a full time job after this, plus my youngest will be at school. Money is tight.

Whenever we have problems he will not sit down and discuss things. He goes silent, won't talk and just shuts down. I end up losing my temper.

We have had huge problems in the past with him sending money home to his family without discussing these finances with me first, we have been on the verge of divorce many times. He is secretive and silent when it comes to this. But now I have kids, am a SAHM, I have no means to support myself and my parents have made it clear they want nothing to do with it.
 
The deal breakers for me are:

Has been approached many times by his bosses for promotion but won't go for it. He stepped down a level a few years ago blaming it on lack of support in his role, irresponsible staff, being constantly short- staffed and no time to train up all the new starts he had.
I have no respect for him.
He refuses to talk through any problems in our relationship; doesn't want to know. If pushed will immediately cry divorce knowing I have no means to support myself.
Stonewalls, ignores my feelings/emotions completely but thinks its okay to approach me for sex.
I feel utterly alone and bereft.

Its long, sorry.

[zombiemum]

Thank you listaddict, I'm so sorry to hear you're going through such a shit time.
I get what people are telling me loud and clear that happiness is within you, no-one else can make you happy if it is not within you already, I totally get that.
I remember someone on Mumsnet saying that sometimes the solution
seems so difficult that the actual problem seems minimal in comparison. Thats how I feel most days. I'm just taking these first tentative steps, testing the water, I know I could not feel any lonlier on my own than I am now.

[Corygal]

Thought for bedtime: get a teeny pic of a house and stick it to the inside of your wallet. Will make you save for the new life that is out there waiting for you to arrive.

I'm off to deal with my cat, who hates fireworks and wants me to get into bed so he can lie on me and relax, which consists of dribbling and ear-splitting purring. Sleep well, OP - you deserve it. Sweet dreams.

Post again if you want to, am here tomorrow morning.

[Corygal]

I know that's what you feel like. Remember that this is the bit of the change that is the dark night of the soul - morning has yet to show its face.

And yes, happiness is within you - but that really means in your case that other people have been not suitable for your life (or would be much good in anyone's, I am sniffily tempted to say) and that you need a change. That's all - it's your surroundings that are the problem, your happiness needs a chance to surface somewhere else.

Sleep well. I must go, the vast feral I call a pet is shredding the duvet.

[GeekLove]

It will be daunting being a single parent but i know several single parents and I am awed at how good they are. Also you are in effect already a single parent since I doubt Mr Stonewall could parent to save his life. Remember he might use sulking and stonewalling as a form of control but have you thought it would be him panicking and shutting down since he is so poorly adapted to family life and life in another country?

[zombiemum]

Thanks Corygal, the days I'm at college I am perfectly happy, the gloom descends when I get home.
I'm stunned by some of the replies I have to admit.
My 'D'H has been here 18 years but has failed to pick up the language skills. He embarrasses me in every social encounter we have at the school. Other couple's conversations flow naturally, when people speak to us they have to slow the conversation right down as they can see he just doesn't understand.
My DH was telling me a girl at work was really rude to him and he was ignoring her now as a result! I was shocked; I advised him to speak to her in private and explain that he did not appreciate being spoken to like that, that what he was doing was unprofessional. His response? He got up and left the room, end of discussion.
GeekLove, it's so obvious isn't it that he just hasn't adapted? I never considered it might be panic, no.
My neighbour introduced her adult daughter to my DH a couple of times which he has a real bee in his bonnet about (bee in bonnet-not an expression he would understand) He gets so agitated that she does this???????? I explained that she was only being polite and courteous, what the hang's wrong with that? She's being friendly, not arranging his fucking marriage, calm the fuck down. He has difficulty relating to women due to his village upbringing.
Despite living in a non-asian area, he has no English friends. His friends are all other Pakistani's from the scattered community here.

[droves]

Bloody hell Zombie .

I don't think I've ever read a thread about such a loveless marriage . Even threads where one person has cheated , there was always love at the beginning , even if it got lost.

You don't even like him .( Being fair ,given that he won't communicate ,he's hardly given you the chance to know him ,never mind form a relationship).

What on earth were your parents thinking matching you with someone so very different in personality ? . Apart from the children you don't have anything in common at all .You poor girl , 18 years of no proper adult conversations ...it's like he's sucked all the fun from your home.

Don't be too disheartened about having no support from your family when you leave him. Loads of women do it ..I did it . I also have toxic mother and father ( Scottish kind of toxic ,like to get violent when the don't get their own way) they wouldn't piss on me if I was on fire ...but I still managed to get away from twatbag ex-h ,with very little money and a lot of determination and a few very good friends.

You need to make a plan . It will see you through the hard bits , just stick to the plan.

Firstly gather as much money as you can and hide it from H .
Then get as much info as you can , lawyers ,tax credits ,housing ect .
Put your name down with the council & look to landlords and estate agents find out how much housing costs near you .
Look into after school clubs for your children if you need childcare
Speak to the college ....they will help if they can.
CSa , you will be entitled to 20% of your Hs income for the children.
You might also be entitled to spousal maintence...lawyer would advise on that.

Normally I'd say stay in the marital home , but this time I think it would be a lot easier if you just leave the dinosaur there and start again.

I hope you get the freedom you want and have a easy divorce and a long and happy fulfilled life without him , because zombie your lovely and deserve so much more than your getting at the minute.

[zombiemum]

Bottom line is I am so frustrated I could scream.
He won't even go shopping for new clothes without hours of hand holding. I barely have the time to shop for new clothes and certainly don't inconvenience others in the process. I am so exhausted from doing everything and on top of that I am expected to spend hours searching for clothes, kids in tow, that when we do find stuff that looks right, he puts it back, I'll get it another time!!!!!!!
He has no interest in clothes and happily walks around looking like a tramp. I ordered a whole load of stuff from the Next sale last year which he tried on at home and kept loads at my insistence. I was forced to take control of that one too because again, his whole appearance was an embarassment and he wouldn't do anything about it. He desperately needs new jeans, tops and stuff again but just ignores me when I say. Its just so pathetic.

[zombiemum]

OMG droves, it's clear as day isn't it that I don't even like him........I'm in tears again. I had myself convinced for so many years that he was just adjusting, would get there in the end, what a fool.

[Mollydoggerson]

I have no advice, but just wanted to say you are strong to face the reality of the situation and you will find a way out. You have to look out for yourself.

[Romilly70]

Poor you. He just sounds like a stubborn child.
(I do however wonder if he is deeply depressed, but to be honest that is no longer your problem)
Just start making your plans.

Just take it one step at a time and start confiding in your english friends, you will be amazed at how much people are willing to help you if you just ask

[droves]

Zombie , You can do this love .

Dry your tears , your just one step closer to taking charge of your own destiny .

Now repeat after me ....zombie is fabulous and can do anything .

Go look in that mirror and see what an amazingly strong woman you really are .
Trust me when I say you living the hard part , it will only get easier from here on.

There might be a few legal bits to sort , but when that's done , the big weight on your shoulders will lift and you will be so happy you won't recognise yourself ! .

[SoSoMamanBebe]

How do you think he would react if you left him? Would he and your family have issues with izzat?

[ZillionChocolate]

You poor thing. I agree that your white friends won't care how your marriage started. There is no shame in taking steps to make yourself happy. Your children need you to be happy.

I also agree that as a priority you need to work out where you stand financially.

[Silibilimili]

Was he brought us as middle class in Pakistan zombie? Where he had everything done for him by his mother or sisters, including buying clothes? He seems incapable for taking responsibility for anything. I have seen this type of behaviour in some indian men. where the women do everything for them.
I have also seen leaving everything to the last minute and then doing just the basic essentials as 'it does not matter'. What's the need etc. no aim in life, just get by. No ambition. Only interest is cricket and politics.
He seems devoid of lust for life. You can't live like this.
You seem to have nothing in common either.
If he is not willing to listen and you have 'spent' already 18 years trying to make thing okay, it's time to move on.
It is okay to do that. No shame in it. But do it the right way. So that you can avoid hopefully on your part the fallout for the Children. The key to that is plan. Plan everything.
Take help where it is given. White or Asian.
Be selfish and get what you want. It's okay to do that short term. Does not make you a bad person.

[zombiemum]

DH is home today so I can't get to the computer as much.
OMG silibili, his only interests are cricket and Pakistani politics!!!!!!!!
Yes, he has had EVERYTHING done for him back home.
Droves, thank you for your kind words, thank you. Your description of your parents strikes a chord with me, my parents too are the kind that wouldn't piss on me if I were on fire, I never really had a choice when it came to limiting contact with them and cutting them out: Why would I keep going back for constant validation that I am worthless and useless in their eyes? Why would I allow them the opportunity to raze my self esteem and confidence to ribbons over and over again? In their eyes I can't do right for doing wrong, whilst my younger brother by virtue of being male can do NO wrong and is the light of their life.
As far as finances go, it's going to be tricky. He might a complete buffoon in every area but not when it comes to money and how much I'm spending. We haven't had a holiday for 7 years now because he keeps spending the money in the holiday fund that I had to fight for to get him to set up (that I scrimp and save on everyday essentials to allow that money to be saved every month).
Every Eid he sends money home to his family. Despite both his parents having passed away he still sends money to his married brother with no children who works as an electrician and older sisters. This area of his life is secret and non negotiable, he has made this perfectly clear.
The car needs work, or he argues living costs have risen sharply, which they have I can see that but still..........

[GreatAuntMaud]

Contrary to the others here, I get a completely different impression of things from reading your posts. It sounds like you are embarrassed by this man, maybe rightly, but still, I sense a huge amount of good old-fashioned self-loathing on your part. It looks like your main problem with your H is his ethnicity, specifically his obvious show of it. What is so wrong with having an accent? If, like someone else said, your husband of 20 years was Italian and spoke with that accent would it bother you? Would you expect an adult American man who spent 20 years here to speak like an Englishman? Somehow I doubt it. And do you have to buy his clothes for him? If he was doing this to you, insisting on buying you your clothes, completely against your wishes and taste, wouldn't you shut down against him too? I doubt you'd be full of love for life and wanting to celebrate his birthday and all those other things you say he doesn't do. And really, saying that you'd rather die than admit to your English friends that you had an arranged marriage - you sound like a self-obsessed teenager who wants to appear cool to her mates. I'm sure English people do things that are shameful too. It's not like you're hiding a secret like you don't know who the father of your child is because there were so many contenders, or you married your husband because you were so drunk you thought he was his brother, or something like that (Read Take a Break or something for more ideas). You are ashamed to say that as a young girl you succumbed to pressure from your parents and had an arranged marriage. Really, get some perspective! I don't see any obvious deal-breakers in your marriage, like adultery, violence, drunkenness, refusal to work/earn, being a poor father to your children etc.

I can understand the ethnic self-hatred, given the frankly useless family you grew up with. But I think this has coloured your opinion of your H. It sounds like he has no self-confidence, understandable when you're living your life as a clueless foreigner with someone who thinks you're a buffoon. I do have sympathy for you in spite of how my post reads. It looks like your H and you are not compatible and neither seems to like the other. I think the only way here is to amicably call it a day.

[Silibilimili]

zombie, even if you squirrel away Gbp 10 a week, it'll help.
Re the sending money to Pakistan, have you asked him what will become if his children if he can't save for them? Your retirement as a family?
I know of a family whose 'man of house' did the same. Husband and wife worked their arse off here. Had only one child, sent all the spare money to family in Asia. The Asian family lived a nice life while these guys suffered here. Now that the 'man' has retired, he is regretting doing this as his family across the pint spent it all on getting drunk, movie and eating out.
This guy in the uk, although retired, is still in debt.
Gees.
Doesn't your family know about this (not the other issues as I am sure they won't understand the compatibility and lack of other interests) but the financial issues?

[Silibilimili]

I agree with greataunts post.

[Romilly70]

Great Aunt Maud I think your post is a bit harsh. I don't detect any self-loathing in the OP's post, she is just at the end of her tether in a completely mis-matched cultural marriage. Zombie and her H may be of the same ethnic background but they have been brought up in completely different environments. The H has no reason to change as everything is being done for him and probably realises that the OP has no family support; in fact they are indirectly supporting his attitude.

OP, you need to set up a seperate secret online bank account. Can you change where your child benefit goes to, that you can save that? Anything you can sell?

Although there is no domestic violence, there are elements of emotional abuse in your situation.
I suggest you get in touch with www.southallblacksisters.org.uk/

They support women from asian and afro-caribbean backgrounds in leaving abusive relationships. (I reiterate that I am not accusing your H of DV, but controlling family money, stonewalling when trying to have a conversation are all forms of abuse). I think the Southall Black sisters could help you get your head around the cultural issues relating to the lack of support from family / community.

Zombie, you are only 36 years old. You have already made the brave decision to leave, start putting into place the practical steps. There are other posts in relationships about about the steps before leaving such as photocopying all financial information, important document etc. You should leave copies of all of this with a trusted friend. (Probably one of your English friends from College would be the best bet.) You CAN do all this, be strong

[Silibilimili]

I disagree this is domestic abuse. However, I agree this is no way to live. Not for zombie, nor for her dh, who I suspect suffers also from depression.

[zombiemum]

GreatAuntMaud I am shocked you would call me a self obsessed teenager! It took a huge amount of guts to come here and lay it out in the open as I keep my feelings bottled up and certainly don't go round gushing to anyone who will listen.
I was looking for perspective and I'm sure getting that!
So its only a valid complaint if he's beating me black and blue? The fact that he is emotionally and financially abusive and controlling is not relevant?
The clothes issue, he has a work uniform, he had so few clothes left hanging in his wardrobe that he started wearing his uniform on his days off......but wouldn't take the time to go shop for new ones without expecting me to accompany him? No I would not like someone choosing my clothes for me because I would get off my backside and go do something about it. Not go round for months and months wearing the same six items of clothing.

[zombiemum]

Thank you Romilly, there is no incentive for him to change when I do everything. I have tried every which way but loose to get him to see that I am carrying him in every sense, it is grinding me down and wearing me out. It is like living with a child. He will not change, he has had 18 years to show me what he is capable of and there is nothing forthcoming. I've quite simply had enough now.
Silibili re the money situation, it will never change, he will never see sense and reason cause Lord only knows I've tried, but like I said that part of his life is completely utterly non-negotiable. Sure my family know he sends money back home.

[zombiemum]

He keeps a close eye on the child benefit money, knows where every penny goes. I will try and save when and where I can.
It takes a huge amount of guts for a woman with young children to consider such a huge step. I weep for my children and what I am about to inflict on them, they are my achilles heel. I never ever saw myself as someone who was a quitter, I have done everything I can, of that I am satisfied.
I don't want my children to copy our relationship or view it as normal, my DH sucks the joy out of the household when he is here.
GreatAuntMaud thanks for putting the blame onto my shoulders for him being depressed.
Life is what you make it, if I was to move to China tomorrow I would do shit loads of research and know that when I got there that I would have a phenomenal amount of adapting to do. Not just sit there on my lazy arse being enabled and wanting everyone around me to do all the legwork. The first thing I would do before I even got there is start learning Chinese, not sit there feeling sorry for myself that my partner doesn't think much of me.

[Silibilimili]

zombie, I don't think anyone is blaming you for your dh being depressed.
He might have seen your family and thought that he is marrying into a traditional Pakistani family and you will be the same.
This can happen in arranged marriages where the people marrying are very different from the families they come from.
I agree re. The English language problem but he seems to be doing well career wise without this so maybe he sees no point in trying harder?!
You will be kinder to yourself if you let go of the resentment and hatred. This means, accept the situation. It has happened. What's the next step? You will be kinder to your Children too if you let this go and thik of the future and not the past.
Re. Money, don't you need any to buy books? Lunch? Some fees? Etc
If there is a littlest part of you that wants to salvage this, show him this thread. He can read it at his leisure and think about hat he wants to do.

[Abitwobblynow]

GreatAuntMaud, sheesh!

What part of ARRANGED MARRIAGE and PIECE OF PROPERTY and MORE TROUBLE BUYING A DRESS did you skip over?

You seem to have no idea what living in a patriarchal third world is like for women, and what submitting to those values do to a person, and you should be supporting this incredibly brave young woman instead of spouting morally relativistic right-on BS. You are either a muslim in denial or a liberal.

Either way, you aren't listening. Shame on you!

The right-on New Labour party did young Asian women the most enormous disservice when they abolished the strict marriage visa controls set out by the Conservatives (I wonder when voters will be intelligent enough to make the connection between laws and the subsequent headlines they read about, in this case, the meteoric rise in the topics 'forced marriage' and 'honour killings'. Another thing those morons have to apologise for.