I was abused by my GP - wish I'd reported it

[pinkbluepink]

The Jimmy Savile abuse cases have led me to re-think something that happened when I was a teenager.

I was 'abused' by my GP when I was 17 on a visit to the surgery to enquire about going on the pill. My GP asked me to undress and get on the couch so he could 'examine me' before he could recommend going on the pill. At the time I thought it odd, but then having not been in that situation before I obligingly removed my lower items of clothing and hopped onto the couch. The GP then proceeded to give me an 'internal' before returning to his desk and writing a prescription.

It was only much later when discussing going on the pill with friends that I realised what he had done to me was wrong, and even then I was too embarrassed to do anything about it.

In hindsight I wish I had reported him - how many other teenagers did he do this to?

The GP is question is probably dead now, but as a mother of teenage girls it makes me furious that someone in his position felt he was able to do this.

Not sure why I'm posting this now - just wanted to get it off my chest really. Thanks for reading.

No Em, I assumed it was normal because maybe they had to check I was a girl and that was the way (10 year old thinking).

Makes me feel a bit now, but it was 30 years ago and the guy is probably dead now. The only reason I would do anything is if I thought that he might still be practising, but I am sure that he wouldn't be.

JusT so much that used to pass for 'normal' that now we think wtf? [sigh]

I'm finding this thread confusing and really disturbing. What happened to the "We Believe You" campaign on here a while back? Why does the fact that vaginal examinations were standard protocol in the context described mean that the OP can't have been sexually assaulted? This thread is just inches away from saying that

1. Doctors can by definition never be abusers (ie like we all used to think that popular TV presenters and Catholic priests could never be abusers)

and

2.Abuse which takes place during examinations accepted as normal medical practice is just "legitimate rape"
(ie like rape within marriage, rape when woman too drunk to consent etc)

I feel sick.

People on here are asking did I need to be examined internally/undressed

No one is saying Drs can never be abusers
No one is saying abuse in a medical procedure is allowed

People have said comments are inappropriate

People have said 'that' exam was unnecessary

People have said 'that' was wrong and should never have happened

Several professionals have also said that invasive/intimate exams are the norm in other countries NOW and we are considered negligent in not performing some

Several professionals have also said that invasive/intimate exams were considered good practice in the past but are not now.... So the fact you had one does not automatically qualify as abuse. That depends on conduct during it

Viewing all intimate exams as abuse because you assume all intimate exams are abuse is mistaken.

I've actually paid privately to have a thorough exam, including pelvic, both times before beginning trying to conceive, went to Germany to my old gynaecologist for that. Just made me feel safer.

I prefer that there's less exams over here, but in Germany pelvic exams are the norm throughout pregnancy - there's plenty "let's compare our cervix" threads on German pregnancy forums, and people are horrified whenever I mention that this is not done over here as a routine thing.

Latte - this thread is not about not believing abuse victims, but I think it's important to point out that medical practice has changed in the UK, and that pelvic exams have not, in general, been carried out because the GP got off on it, but just because they followed guidelines.

There's no point in making women believe that all pelvic examination where always abuse.

I'm a regular but have named changed for this.

I want to add something that supports the need for intimate examinations.

A few years ago I saw a highly respected gynaecologist for a condition linked to low hormones- but not connected in any way to my uterus or vagina, if that makes sense.

At the first consultation we talked for a long time, then he arranged for me to have bloods taken on the same day ( this was a private appt.), then he asked to examine me. I was a little shocked as I didn't think it was necessary. I queried it and said I didn't think I needed to be examined. He was very courteous but said he wanted to " look after me properly".

I agreed and it was all done professionally with a nurse present.

On examining me he found I had a) a fibroid ( not serious), b) a retoverted uterus ( missed by many other gynaes) and c) he arranged an ultrasound and they found as ovarian cyst.

None of the above needed treatment in the end, but it did give him a picture of my body.

Okay- I accept that when you consult a gynae you should expect to be examined at the drop of a hat but- without giving too much away here- my reason for seeing him was not directly connected to my genitals if that makes sense.

Is it standard practice for a nurse to chaperone a male doctor during examinations?

I don't know because I grew up in Singapore. Now I am an adult in the UK would always ask for a female GP for anything to do with women's issues.

My father, who was a doctor in Singapore, would ask for a nurse to be present during examination of women, as much for his protection as for the patient's.

Toothbrush you misunderstand what I'm saying. I don't categorise all unnecessary vaginal examinations as abuse... instead I'm saying that any such examination, necessary or not, has the potential to be abusive.

Let's change the metaphor. Say I was sexually assaulted by a Tesco delivery man and can onto MN to describe what happened. Would people say 'well, unpacking your naice ham is just what Tesco delivery men do - are you sure you didn't misunderstand what he did?' Or would they say 'I believe you'...?

When I first went on the pill at 14 I had an internal examination. It was the early 1990s and done in the family planning clinic by a women.

I went on the pill when I was 17. It was 1979. My GP, who was in his late 50's by then and had been our family doctor since before I was born, told me I had to have a vaginal examination but he didn't tell me why. The examination itself was done professionally. After he'd finished he also said he had to examine my breasts. (Again I don't remember him explaining why but he may have done, back then they were worried about the pill and breast cancer IIRC). Again the examination itself was professional and no different to any that I've had since. As I was putting my bra back on he looked at me and said 'this boyfriend of yours is a very lucky boy'. I knew there was something wroing about that.

The whole JS thing has reminded me of several incidents that happened to me as a young teenager - no coincidence that it was the mid 1970's.

I do think you have to be a bit careful about "I believe you" on an anonymous Internet forum that we all know to be visited regularly by trolls.

But why? Can you explain...?

I've just finished reading all of the posts on the thread and wonder if longtrainrunning and I had the same GP .

Breastmilk
I do think you have to be a bit careful about "I believe you" on an anonymous Internet forum that we all know to be visited regularly by trolls.

It's obvous surely?

Any internet forum which is anon attracts all sorts. Some people get a kick out of posting fabrications of their experiences to get attention, join the throng, whatever..........

What this poster is saying- and it's bloody obvious- is don't take at face value ( and believe) everything and anything someone posts here.

Most posters are genuine and honest but we all need to retain a tad of scepticism on open, anon forums.

Yup, that's pretty much it!

I don't think anyone on this thread isn't being believed - but they are getting explanations.

Some of those are: at the time that examination was recommended practice - but the comments made were not and you are totally right that it was abuse. Or that the examination was or is recommended practice and the problem is that it was not fully explained to you. And some of the explanations are that there was no possible medical justification whatsoever and yes it was abuse.

For example with the moles, you would just go to clinic expecting the dermatologist to look at the one mole you were worried about - but it is standard practice for them to look at the whole of your skin, which is v embarrassing, esp if you weren't expecting it and in a very busy clinic explanations can be lost. FWIW as a student, I've been to a dermatology clinic where the mole the patient was worried about was entirely normal but in looking at the whole of the patient's skin, the dermatologist found a melanoma somewhere else, potentially saving the patient's life.

It is now normal practice for male AND female doctors to have a chaperone when doing intimate examinations - but where do you draw the line? Further up the thread someone had had a cardiology exam and in women that does involve feeling around under their left breast. Or having an ECG where you have to be fairly naked and stickers are stuck round your boob. The NHS doesn't have the resources to chaperone every single exam ever done so sticks to the 'biggies' otherwise it would grind to a halt.

Personally I had a breast exam by a surgeon when I was 16. I knew I needed it but I was very uncomfortable with the surgeon and for many years felt upset by the way he did it and looked at me while he was doing it. But then I was taught how to do a breast exam and it was exactly what he did - right down to the looking me in the eye to check he wasn't hurting me. However when I didn't know, for 10 years I thought this surgeon was an abusive creep. While i don't know what was going on in his head, I'm now confident that what he did was entirely professional just badly explained to a very embarrassed teenager.

I believe all of you who have disclosed their stories on this thread.

There is no doubt that some drs have used their position for abuse and this was probably easier a little while ago when 'dr knows best' was the general stance, so more of them got away with it .

OTOH, what is accepted and what isn't clearly depends on so many other things, amongst others: what is culturally accepted (I second Bonsoir's post about nakedness being much more normal in many parts of Europe btw - when I went for my first pill prescription in Germany, I fully expected an internal, a smear and a breast exam), how things are communicated and in what context an exam took place.

Personally, I have always been comfortable being examined by the drs I have had contact with - it seems like I have been very lucky.

Breastmilk said .... I don't categorise all unnecessary vaginal examinations as abuse... instead I'm saying that any such examination, necessary or not, has the potential to be abusive.

Let's change the metaphor. Say I was sexually assaulted by a Tesco delivery man and can onto MN to describe what happened. Would people say 'well, unpacking your naice ham is just what Tesco delivery men do - are you sure you didn't misunderstand what he did?' Or would they say 'I believe you'...?

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I'm equally disturbed by some of your comments. Any examination (or any contact at all actually) has the potential to be abusive - in the same way that any man has the "potential" to be a rapist )or any woman has the potential to be a child abuser.) I find this such a desperately unhelpful way of looking at things (and the world in general). The OP posted a sequence of events, others have posted reasons. At no point was she not believed, and no-one here implied that she couldn't have been abused, as you seem to elude to in your first post. Abuse (in whatever form) is a terrible thing - and no-one here has sought to justify it. Others and myself have described some of the possible reasons why this kind of examination was undertaken, and why it is still undertaken elsewhere.

And your comparison is pointless - doctors sometimes need to examine those areas for the professional reasons described. If I wanted a painter to paint one of my upstairs rooms, I'd expect him to look at it before quoting. If I wanted a mechanic to service my car I'd expect him to be under the bonnet at some point. I wouldn't expect the Tesco guy to do anything of those things.

Your comments have really lowered my mood - and frankly they're a stark reminder to me and some of the other health professionals here as to why we need to have chaperones for anything even vaguely intimate. Yes, to protect our patient (not that I'd ever have any interesting in abusing one of my patients) but also to protect me - I've spent too long studying, working my backside off and building a career for it to all be ruined by a misunderstood false accusation and it horrifies me that some of my patients think like this.

Coming a bit late to this but have been really interested in the perspectives.

There are some rotten apples Drs who are abusive, there are some who are just poor at communicating why examinations are necessary.

A a medical student I was sexually assaulted by a GP who was supposed to be teaching me. He came up behind me kissed the back of my neck and groped my breasts. He was definitely abusive.

I also felt very uncomfortable when I saw my GP for a rash as a teenager. I tried to just lift my top a bit but he wanted me to undress completely, stand in the middle of the room in only my underwear whilst he walked round me staring intently and then came up close behind me without warning and ran his fingers over some of the spots. He then left me standing there and returned to his desk to write notes before belatedly remembering to say I could get dressed! Terrible communication but I now realise as a Dr myself all his actions were quite justified; looking at the distribution of the rash and looking at an individual lesion in detail. His diagnosis was spot on too and it was quite a difficult one. I can now see he was deep in thought about it. He probably thought he did a great job. I hated him and avoided him ever after.

I try to take my own experience and learn from it but I expect I have got it wrong on occasion too.

OP you are not alone in the JS case raking up old memories. As someone has already said, sexual abuse was much more prevalent in the 70's/80's, although I'm pretty sure we didn't realise that's what it was.

It's made me think of a couple incidents. One when I started a job for a Bank, I had to go for a medical at a private practice in Manchester. Same as magpie I had to strip to my briefs and lay on the couch and have my breast examined. I had then to have my eyes tested by reading the 'letters thing' just in my knickers! I was only 17 and was excruciatingly embarrassed.

Over the years chatting with others girls at the bank, it seems like this was something that happened to a lot of us, and no-one ever said anything!

In all fairness, the OP did not contain any inappropriate comments or anything else to suggest that that particular doctor did anything other than conduct an internal. Her realisation that this was wrong seemed entirely based on the idea that there would be no reason for the internal.

I was young in the 80s and an internal every 6 months was considered the norm - I sometimes had them done by a female gynaecologist, sometimes by a male, absolutely no reason to believe either got a thrill out of it.

Of course this doesn't mean there won't have been other medics around behaving inappropriately.

Think a lot of people are missing the point. The op did not say sexual abuse. I think internals without explanation or consent from the patient are an abuse objectively however it is only relatively recently the medical establishment has come to view patient consent and com skills as important.

I went to see a young female gp when going on the pill in autumn '73, and was given an internal. It was nothing compared to being abused as a child, she did it as gently as possible.

The gp had converted to the Roman Catholic church, and he was totally against any unmarried girl/woman going on the pill. In the sixth form, friends at school couldn't go to him for the pill as he would have told their parents whether they were 16 or 18.

I telephoned him about 10 years ago, and he took great pains to remind me very slimily that sexual abuse didn't happen, and that it was down to false memory syndrome.

There are good and bad gp's - at a fpc I once had an internal carried by a doctor in a tweed suit, brogues, and long leg knickers. To say that I felt like a well-scrubbed kitchen floor was an understatement.

I seem to remember having 6-monthly internals, but don't know what they do now - no longer need contraception. Have bled after smears - some just don't know how to do them and not cause discomfort.

loads of us have had internals and NOT felt weird, and I agree they are a medical necessity, and used to be seen that way

but reading stories here...I definately think there are some very suspect stories

Not all doctors that perform internal are perverts, of course not

but alot of wierd shit went on in the 70s-80s....

i rememeber having a nude photo dont when I was a 12 year old with scoliois
it was horrible and embarassing, but not pervy IYSWIM

@trywn, thanks for posting that, it does make me feel better. He looked me right in the eye, and the nurse looked away as if she was mortified. Of course he could have just been a git, and she was bored stiff...Hopefully that was the case.