I was abused by my GP - wish I'd reported it

[pinkbluepink]

The Jimmy Savile abuse cases have led me to re-think something that happened when I was a teenager.

I was 'abused' by my GP when I was 17 on a visit to the surgery to enquire about going on the pill. My GP asked me to undress and get on the couch so he could 'examine me' before he could recommend going on the pill. At the time I thought it odd, but then having not been in that situation before I obligingly removed my lower items of clothing and hopped onto the couch. The GP then proceeded to give me an 'internal' before returning to his desk and writing a prescription.

It was only much later when discussing going on the pill with friends that I realised what he had done to me was wrong, and even then I was too embarrassed to do anything about it.

In hindsight I wish I had reported him - how many other teenagers did he do this to?

The GP is question is probably dead now, but as a mother of teenage girls it makes me furious that someone in his position felt he was able to do this.

Not sure why I'm posting this now - just wanted to get it off my chest really. Thanks for reading.

[pinkbluepink]

Well here I am, quietly. I am not going to say what you suggest since as I said in my original post, the JS case stirred up disturbing memories and I still maintain that the way in which I was examined, in addition to the fact that not one other person I questioned at the time had experienced the same treatment, even at the same surgery.

It is only since posting on here and reading so many varying stories that I realise it may have been standard with some GPs.

As breastmilk said in an earlier thread, "I'm finding this thread confusing and really disturbing. What happened to the "We Believe You" campaign on here a while back? Why does the fact that vaginal examinations were standard protocol in the context described mean that the OP can't have been sexually assaulted?"

I have in fact been following the posts and refraining from comment since the thread had turned into medical professionals giving their opinions as to why it would have been standard practice.

[WeAllHaveWings]

In the 80's, I had to have a company medical before getting an offer of an IT job.

This included me attending the onsite medical center. I had to go behind a curtain and strip down to my underwear, keeping on my my bra but undoing at the back. Come out from behind the curtain (in my underwear) and walk over to and get on the bench (no cover ups/gowns offered). I had a breast exam, internal exam and a good looking over. This was done by the elderly onsite doctor and watched by even older onsite nurse.

Whole thing was pretty awful as I was a shy/naive 19 year old at the time. I hadn't has a smear by this point so it was the first time I'd had such an examination.

Pretty sure it was just standard at the time, the men at work had an intimate poke about too when they started, and I recall friends saying the same in other work places.

When at work I hated going to the doctors office to fix/help him with his IT equipment as I could never talk to him properly or look him in the eye.

[smellylittleorange]

Magpieinthehouse- I'm sorry to hear about your experiences - the place you may remember was County Hall London?

I seem to have a vague memory of A Doctor examining me in an inappropriate way as well (although nowhere near as bad as some of the experiences here) I was an early developer I feel it had something to do with it all sigh

[qwertyytrewqqwertytrewq]

The responses of health professionals on this thread mirrors precisely the reactions I've had in RL.

I was molested by a doctor during a medical examination: no ambiguity or doubt about it. None.

And yet, virtually every time a new doctor sees it on my medical records, I'm asked

'how do we know you didn't imagine it?'
or 'how do you know you didn't misunderstand what he was doing?'
or 'do you understand that I've brought in a chaperone so that you can't accuse me of [sex act in question] as well?'

and even once (from a female obstetrician) 'how can you be sure that [the abuser] didn't think you were intiating it or willing to co-operate?' (even though I was 8 years old at the time, and anyone below 13 is deemed legally incapable of providing consent)

And that's from female doctors as well.

So OP I'm really sorry but sadly not surprised that this thread hasn't given you the support you deserved

[BerylStreep]

qwerty, that's shocking.

Internal examinations and breast examinations may well have been considered good practice in the past, but it doesn't mean that Doctors haven't abused patients as well. I know that one of the experiences I had was my elderly male GP groping my breasts when I had a chest infection when I was about 16. Not moving them to listen with a stethoscope, or any other plausible explanation, but getting me to strip off my top half and out and out groping.

I appreciate that Drs sometimes need to perform intimate examinations, but a lot of the posts on this thread sound like they are minimising people's experiences. I would like to think that most of us are capable of discerning the difference between and necessary and professionally conducted examinations, and those in which the behaviour is wrong - for example lingering over areas, groping, repeated in & out insertion - sorry to be graphic, but this sort of thing is where the difference between inappropriate and appropriate examinations lie.

I think it is good that there is a more equal footing between Dr and patient these days, and less unquestioning deference to the medical profession.

[lisad123]

The thing is I have spent ages telling young people and their parents to trust their gut feelings about situations and people and ensuring we listen when children tell us they feel this way. It appears this doesn't matter if your gut feeling tells you your GP was not correct in his behaviour very sad

[Offred]

Yes I'm sure it probably was an accepted practice, as I said up thread I think that is irrelevant and you should make your own decision about how you feel about your own experiences, not be guided by what other people think you should feel or by the fact what happened was probably an accepted practice. You felt violated and you need to explore those feelings I think.

[Rindercella]

qwerty, that is awful. But sadly I am not particularly surprised.

I would agree that a dermatologist would routinely inspect the body for other moles and I remember that happening to me a few years ago when I had a few moles removed by a NHS consultant. I had to strip down to my knickers and he examined my skin. At no point was he inappropriate.

But I did just PM lisalisa about the Harley Street plastic surgeon. I wrote on here a couple of weeks ago about my experience, following the Savile story exploding as it made me remember what happened to me back in the early 90s. I had seen the plastic surgeon at a local hospital regarding a blemish I had on my eye that I wanted removing. The surgeon examined me then (don't really remember much detail about this) and I then went to another hospital a couple of weeks later for the procedure to be done. I think I was sedated and had local anaesthetic and I had to wear a hospital gown with nothing underneath. I remember feeling mortified about this as I wasn't prepared, had my period and was using a towel rather than a tampax.

So, after the procedure was done I was much woozier than I expected and felt really out of it - especially as I had driven there and was driving home as the surgeon had said that would be fine. I remember thinking, this isn't right and the man was basically groping me and rubbing himself against me (no doubt about his state of arousal). I froze and didn't know what to do. Then (thankfully) a nurse came in, the man jumped away. She looked shocked, horrified (I think I remember more about that than what he actually did to me) and kept asking if I was okay.

Sorry for the level of detail here. But this is something I have locked away for a very long time and it is only now I think why the fuck did I not do or say anything at the time? I could tell people about being shocked I had to drive home when I felt totally out of it and in no state to drive (I wonder why now?), but I could never tell people that this man had abused me. Thankfully it wasn't that 'bad' but I do think now it probably would have been a hell of a lot worse if the nurse hadn't walked in on him.

[Rindercella]

Sorry, the above post makes it look like I am saying it was the same plastic surgeon as lisalisa. I have no idea, it just was I saw a Harley St plastic surgeon to remove a blemish on my face.

[FlumpsRule]

My gp was also a gynaecologist & routinely did regular internals and breast checks from point we went on the pill. Personally I think it was a good thing & encouraged us to be careful with our own health & routine self examination. Didn't creep me out although a little uncomfortable for any teen.

[topsi]

when I first went on the pill I had an internal I am sure to check you are not pregnant

[emonslemons]

ok i havent read all the posts so this may have been pointed out but the pill is not a barrier method and he may have wanted to check for signs of stds as you were v young and im guessing perhaps not in a steady monogamous relationship at least gps may have suspected that?

[kerryann1981]

Hi, I'm a new member here and after coming across this post I decided to reply as I've had a similar experiences to some of the members who have posted to this thread earlier.

I had an experience similar to Civvie, I work for the Fire and Rescue Service and on returning to work after the birth of my daughter 4 years ago I had to go to Occupational Health for a medical to determine if I was fit to resume operational duties. On attending the doctor, an older male, had me strip to my underwear gave me a full medical, including a breast exam and an internal.

At a later time when discussing our experiences and feelings on the Service's Occupational Health Department with a female colleague, I mentioned my examination on returning from my maternity leave. It turns out she saw the department's other doctor, a female and underwent a much more basic examination.

[b0bandjeff]

1985 at 19 and a student nurse I went to GP across the road frommour student accomodation in the hospital grounds I was totally in panic denial depression feeling ill yuk had only missed first period he asked to examine my breasts and then did an internal total abuse of position often feel uncomfortable about this there was no reason to do it I had done a pregnancy test then he says ring me day or night he is still practicing wish I had reported him at the tkme ... no medical reason did they think it was a perk of the job wish id kicked him in the balls and fled but like I said clinically depressed ill and very homesick

[b0bandjeff]

1985 at 19 and a student nurse I went to GP across the road frommour student accomodation in the hospital grounds I was totally in panic denial depression feeling ill yuk had only missed first period he asked to examine my breasts and then did an internal total abuse of position often feel uncomfortable about this there was no reason to do it I had done a pregnancy test then he says ring me day or night he is still practicing wish I had reported him at the tkme ... no medical reason did they think it was a perk of the job wish id kicked him in the balls and fled but like I said clinically depressed ill and very homesick

[b0bandjeff]

1985 at 19 and a student nurse I went to GP across the road frommour student accomodation in the hospital grounds I was totally in panic denial depression feeling ill yuk had only missed first period he asked to examine my breasts and then did an internal total abuse of position often feel uncomfortable about this there was no reason to do it I had done a pregnancy test then he says ring me day or night he is still practicing wish I had reported him at the tkme ... no medical reason did they think it was a perk of the job wish id kicked him in the balls and fled but like I said clinically depressed ill and very homesick

[b0bandjeff]

1985 at 19 and a student nurse I went to GP across the road frommour student accomodation in the hospital grounds I was totally in panic denial depression feeling ill yuk had only missed first period he asked to examine my breasts and then did an internal total abuse of position often feel uncomfortable about this there was no reason to do it I had done a pregnancy test then he says ring me day or night he is still practicing wish I had reported him at the tkme ... no medical reason did they think it was a perk of the job wish id kicked him in the balls and fled but like I said clinically depressed ill and very homesick

[SoleSource]

I had an internal examination by a male GP before he would prescribe the pill and I was 22 years old. I have always wondered if this was abuse too or standard practise. I did wonder whether a female nurse should have been present at least. My gut instinct told me what he was doing was wrong.

[AcheyFanny]

I recall going to the Family Planning Clinic in the mid 80's, starting from when I was 16 and having a breast exam and internal at almost every visit. I think smears were more spaced out time-wise. Later, I was looked after by the practice nurse at my Drs.
After having a dodgy smear result in the mid 90's I was referred to the hospital for further tests and to see a consultant Gynaecologist.
I think this would have been the first time I had been examined by a male Dr. He was excellent and I was made to feel very comfortable and there was a nurse there at all times.

When I moved abroad my Gynaecologist was recommended to me, he is fabulous, again makes me feel comfortable however in this country it is not unusual for there to be no nurse and for the Dr to be over familiar. Mine will pat me on the knee and call my by my first name (as I do him). Can't imagine that ever happening during a smear test in UK.

[LadyIsabellasHollyWreath]

Was the student accommodation in London b0b? A relative of mine, and all her contemporaries suffered persistent low level abuse and unprofessional behaviour from the GP responsible for the student nurses. Many many years afterwards, he was finally struck off.

If people have concerns about specific doctors, would it be possible to google the GMCR to find out whether they ever faced a disciplinary hearing?

[egb1969]

Just had to add my two pence!

At 15 (mid 80's) and after a couple of years of heavy periods, I went to my GP and had the works, breast exam, internal and smear, again a senior male GP whom the family had known for many years (I went alone my mother not being overly interested in my health - but that's another story) and had been taught to trust and respect the GP and do what I was asked to or told to, he put me on the pill (I guess there was a medical reason to examine me hence no real concern), I had a follow up in six months with him again the works (on both occasions fully nude and no chaperone) and then every six months to see the nurse for blood pressure and annually with him for 'the works' until I moved away aged 18, I lost my virginity at 17 to my now husband and by that time had already received four internals and smear tests

Things didn't change after leaving home to become a student nurse, the 'expected' full medical in my first week training, again with a very old male doctor (who was assigned to the student nurses) was the full works as well, and again if you wanted the pill from him you got an annual full exam, it was only after he managed to mess up three consecutive smear tests in as many months (every time the result came back it said not enough cells to sample) so I had to go again as he refused to prescribe the pill until he had the results), my boyfriend (now husband) asked me to stop seeing him, I went to the family planning clinic they said there was no need for any of that just an annual blood pressure check and three yearly smears

I don't really have any major issues with my GP although I am sure I was far to young to be subjected to a speculum, but the doctor assigned to the student nurses was creepy, no matter what symptoms you presented with he would find a way to have you pretty much undressed, it seemed you were always over due a breast exam or smear test with him, and he found it impossible to use a stethoscope if you had your bra on, all the girls in the nurses home had the same experience but we just got on with it, I guess for a man like him a new batch twenty or so of 18 year old girls every six months kept him very busy!

Any way my story is very similar to most from the 70's and 80's I think it was the general practice of the day (plus the risk from the pill was linked to an increase in both breast on cervical cancer at the time, although now disproved and much safer), also more GP's now are women and know that you don't do that kind of exam unless you really, really need to!

[DustBunnyFarmer]

My experience was no way as bad as some of those discussed above, but it did show the doctor concerned up as an unprofessional twat. I had a lipoma (benign fatty lump) removed from my shoulder by the local plastic sugery day surgery unit as my bra strap was rubbing on it. The strap was therefore directly over the healing wound. As I had a loss of sensation in my shoulder following the surgery I was followed up for longer than usual. The first couple of times the older consultant was present & I had to remove my top and drop my bra strap so the wound could be checked. On my last visit I asked if I needed to remove my top so I could be examined. The younger doctor, who wasbon his own, said: "yeah, why not?" I was standing there in my bra, but he never bothered to examine me (remember, I would have needed to drop the bra strap for him to see the wound). He looked me up & down, then after leaving me standing there for about 5 min said I could put my top back on. It seemed totally gratuitous, but I think it was about humiliation/power not sexual. He also took a lengthy phone call from his wife on his mobile about the new 4x4 they were buying in the middle of my appointment, so rude and disrespectful too. Now I'm older and bolshier I would have called him on it and, depending on his response, complained.

[galifreygirl]

My experience is similar to most here at age 16 late 80's and wanting the pill (although not sexually active but getting close to it) the family GP, male (I don't think our practice at the time had any female GP's) did a breast exam, an internal and smear I was nude and no chaperone, and had the same at annual check up's for at least a couple of years. At the time my friends also had the same exam prior to getting the pill and for repeats, I don't recall being upset by the exam but I was very uncomfortable being naked with the GP and just a little shocked at the size of the metal speculum (none of the small plastic one's my nurse has now, back in those days!)

Now, being the mother of two teenage daughters (one on the pill now) I checked the current process and found it to be changed (I wanted to let them know what to expect), although in doing my research came across this

Regarding Microgynon 30, a pill which has been in use for about 40 years and very popular during the 80's and 90's I found this statement from the data sheet (and would have been enclosed with the pill pack), the last line clearly requires a smear test, plus examination of breasts and pelvic organs and states "at least annually"

Medical Examination/Consultation
A complete medical history and physical examination should be taken prior to the initiation or reinstitution of Microgynon 30, guided by the “Contraindications” and “Warnings and Precautions” sections. This should be repeated at least annually during the use of Microgynon 30. Periodic medical assessment is also of importance because contraindications (e.g. a transient ischemic attack, etc.) or risk factors (e.g. a family history of venous or arterial thrombosis) may appear for the first time during the use of a COC. The frequency and nature of these assessments should be based on established practice guidelines and adapted to the individual woman but should generally include special reference to blood pressure, breasts, abdomen and pelvic organs, including cervical cytology, and relevant laboratory tests.

From the posts I have read here there have been breaches of trust and possible abuse, but based on research I would say best practice (for what was known at the time) was being followed

Again we are the 'unlucky' generation