I was abused by my GP - wish I'd reported it

[pinkbluepink]

The Jimmy Savile abuse cases have led me to re-think something that happened when I was a teenager.

I was 'abused' by my GP when I was 17 on a visit to the surgery to enquire about going on the pill. My GP asked me to undress and get on the couch so he could 'examine me' before he could recommend going on the pill. At the time I thought it odd, but then having not been in that situation before I obligingly removed my lower items of clothing and hopped onto the couch. The GP then proceeded to give me an 'internal' before returning to his desk and writing a prescription.

It was only much later when discussing going on the pill with friends that I realised what he had done to me was wrong, and even then I was too embarrassed to do anything about it.

In hindsight I wish I had reported him - how many other teenagers did he do this to?

The GP is question is probably dead now, but as a mother of teenage girls it makes me furious that someone in his position felt he was able to do this.

Not sure why I'm posting this now - just wanted to get it off my chest really. Thanks for reading.

[trwyn]

@VeritableSmorgasbord

• Part of a full cardiac examination is feeling the chest to feel where the heartbeat is strongest, this area is usually roughly under the nipple in line with the middle of your collarbone, but can be found in different areas in various diseases. To test this in women, you do need to move the breast out of the way. Of course, it could be that the doctor you saw was actually doing something else, but frankly this seems unlikely with someone else in the room.
  
  Unfortunately we have to do intimate exams all the time, as a male doctor I refuse to do any breast, female genital or female rectal examination without a chaperone being present. The risk of misinterpretation is just too high.

[PacificDogwood]

I too agree with quietly - as I've posted before normat, in fact Best Practice, expected much more invasive tests at the time.
I am not talking about fondling, inappropriate remarks and the Dr in question enjoying themselves.
In no way am I denying that a lot of people, particularly in positions of power, abused said power. But at the same time it is quite unfair to make the change in evidence, clinical practice and culture out to be responsible for every action that is now blatantly outmoded and would not be tolerated. And rightly so, not tolerated.

This whole thread is, once again, a stark reminder for me who the success or failure of any Dr-Patient interaction is usually down to communication. From both sides.
I always check with patients before I perform any kind of intimate examination, offer a chaparone (the vast majority of people, male and female, don't want one) and respond to hesitation. 'Are you sure you're happy for me to go ahead with this?'. I totally rely on the person to then be honest with me.
The thread is also a stark reminder to not make what I might consider an innocent lighthearted remark which could be taken very much in the wrong way by somebody feeling vulnerable/upset/anxious.

[Mimmy5]

I'm a passing doctor and thought I'd also add to the above and confirm that it was indeed usual and standard practice according to some authorities to at least consider a vaginal examination / breast exam at point of starting or 1 yr following commencement of the pill/HRT. It still is in some countries around the world.

Although this would NOT be considered routine now at all, it would have been then. I'm sorry that some posters experienced discomfort / felt that they had been abused above - but bear in mind that a doctor NOT performing could potentially have been sued (AT THE TIME) should something have been missed. Whilst out of step now, this does not mean that the individuals involved were perverts or abusers. Of course, this does not excuse any crude comments etc.

I'd draw a newer parallel - when I qualified over a decade ago it was common practice to always do a vaginal examination at the 6 weeks post natal check - now it is done variably, or frequently skipped if 'everything is fine down there'. I'd be disappointed to think that we'd be accusing doctors of being abusers if they, with the appropriate consent, undertook this exam today (if indicated).

I'd also be a little bit careful about retrospective judgments using todays values - this is one of the reasons that there are increasing problems filling Obs+Gynae posts and you might find that there is no-one left to undertake this kind of work for fear of being judged decades down the line when times have changed.

[LapsedPacifist]

Back in the late 70's I remember several friends (in their late teens) were given smear tests before their (male and female) GPs would prescribe the pill - pretty uncomfortable considering some them were still virgins.

IIRC it was quite normal to be given internal exams for all sorts of reasons, including contraception of various kinds, and I had one at 16 because I was suffering from v. painful heavy periods.

[Sariah]

I had internals every 6 months and breasts checks when I was on the pill, That was in the early 90's. I thought it was normal procedure.

[PropositionJoe]

Thanks folks, I'm actually really glad to hear that it would have been recommended at the time. Still think the consequences were unfortunate though.

[prettybird]

When I went to uni, the "regular" Uni doctor had a bad reputation and had a nickname "Fingers his surname". One friend went to see him with a problem with her knee and he got her to take her blouse off so he could check her chest

I registered with someone else.

In hindsight, more people should have complained formally as opposed to just accepting that some people abused their positions of trust. But this was over 30 years ago.

[countingfriends]

I was prescribed the Pill at the FPA in the late 70s- early 80s. . I was I am sure examined by a female dr at one point but it may have been for a smear so can't be certain.

I don't think it is easy to decide if a dr abused you.

A dr would have to "linger" and perhaps show signs of arousal for you to be certain. Just examining you when you felt it was not needed is not evidence of abuse.

Most male drs who have examined me have been very brusque, and almost detached- which I think is their way of keeping it all above board.

I think I would be able to sense a dr who, in contrast, lingered and appeared to find the procedure a turn on.

[Emilizz]

I was a student nurse in a London teaching hospital in the mid 80's. In our occupational health dept , it was standard to have a breast and pelvic exam both before being prescribed the pill and at regular intervals after starting it.

The doctors ( male and female) were always sensitive but matter of fact about it and there was always a nurse chaperone present.

Perhaps not every practise did this. I can remember not being particularly bothered by it but a friend of mine found it very traumatic.


I also worked for a while in a family planning clinic and all sexually active women were offered a smear and internal.

I live in a different country now and notice that the smear no longer includes an internal also.

[PropositionJoe]

I don't think I was abused. I don't think he got a thrill out of it. I'm glad to hear there were guidelines recommending it. I think it would have been better if he hadn't done it, I guess that's why guidelines have changed. I suppose I feel it was a kind of "doctor knows best" suggestion from him that I didn't feel able to gainsay at that age.

[lisalisa]

|I had an uncomfortable experience too but put it down to me just feeling embarrassed. I wonder? When I was 19 I had a mole on the underside of my left foot. It started to grow and my GP referred me to a specialist. As my family had private health insurance - it was rare then as I am talking about late 80s - the specialist was in harley st . I was quite initimidated and impressed too at the luxurious offices and posh mags in the reception area. When I got in to see the consultant he seemed very professional and took a detailed history and looked at the mole. Then he asked me to strip to just my underwear and lay on the bed facing the wall. When i asked him why he said he wanted to compare the mole with other moles on my body ( if any) to see whether my foot mole was normal.

Thank god he never touched me inappropriately but I remember lying there curled up in shame like only a teenager feels whilst being aware that he was looking over me.

Wonder whether that was normal?

[lisalisa]

I also had another mortifiying experience ( although in a different way) quite recently. I had to have electric thingys ( forget the name) applied to my chest to measure my heartbeat. Rather stupidly I just assumed it would either by done over my bra, be done by a woman or be over my clothes.

Instead a male practitioner called me in to a closed room and told me to remove everything on top including my bra and lay on my back on the coach and call him when I was ready . I completely baulked at this and asked him wehther it was really necessary /any other way etc. Finally I said I would like a chaperone to which he rolled his eyes but fetched a nurse. the nurse sat with me the whole time and the practitioner seemed very put out.

Finally after he pulled the sticky things off me and told me I could get dressed the chaperone left the room and the practitioner said " why did you feel you needed a chaperone? I do this all day you know. Did you think I would do something inappropriate? Is it because I am black?"

I felt absolutely terrified and embarrassed and bolted out so fast I left my handbag behind. The memory of that practitioner's eyes burning into me still stays with me.

[Emilizz]

Lisalisa, yes it would be normal for a dermatologist to want to look at the skin on the rest of your body to see if you had any other moles.

I can imagine how uncomfortable and embarrassing that this would feel for most people who wouldn't be expecting this but especially a teenager.

[Lindt70Percent]

I saw my female GP about going on the pill early in 1990 and she insisted on doing a smear test before she would prescribe it - bit odd as I was a virgin at the time but I think it was standard procedure and although it wasn't pleasant I didn't feel there was anything 'wrong' about it.

I was 18 at the time and thought I was being very mature in realising that I was in a relationship that was going to become sexual and so was getting prepared. Her attitude was very disapproving. I remember her asking whether I understood how the pill worked and almost rolling her eyes while she asked me - she was a bit surprised when I gave her a very detailed explanation.

[Lindt70Percent]

lisalisa - I'm really impressed you had the courage to ask for a chaperone. It's really bad that you were made to feel uncomfortable about doing so. I think it's very telling that he didn't ask you why you felt the need for a chaperone while the chaperone was with you.

[lisad123]

I remember a male GP gave me an internal to check if I was pregnant, felt very odd to me as surely would be easier to pee on a stick
He told me I wasn't pregnant, when in fact I was.
I refused to see him.
As others have said if its effecting you, please go and talk to someone about it.

[Bonsoir]

As a teenager I lived in a country in continental Europe, and as an adult I have lived most of my live in France. I have consulted doctors with many different training backgrounds. Only in England is nudity considered odd at the doctor's.

[PacificDogwood]

Please, please do speak up when you are at all uncomfortable. If you don't, I'll just carry on doing what I am doing, assuming you are fine with how things are going. Please bear in mind that while you might think 'I just want my mole looking at' a whole list of possiblities and options is running through my head.
I'd much rather be told at the time that I was moving too quick/had not explained why I was doing something/was too 'rough', than finding out later. Or never...

As an aside, one of the reasons drs don't like patients who come with lists of things is that it takes concentration to take in what the complaint is and then examine/investigate/refer further, usually writing down what has been said and what was found on examination after the patient has left. It is not just a time issue (it is as well, of coure. Whether you attend once every week or once every ten years, your appointment time is still the same), it is a matter of overlooking or forgetting to do someting in the midst of information overload.
Sorry for derail. It's been a long day...

[countingfriends]

lisalisa I think that was quite normal.
I had a mole removed from my foot in my late 20s.

I had this done as day surgery in an NHS hospital. I was admitted and had to strip to my undies beforehand and be examined- not internally!- by a male dr. He sounded my chest nad tapped my reflexes etc and it all seemed utterly unnecessary- at the time and now, considering I was having a local injection and now most GPs do this kind of simple surgery.

[Eurostar]

lisalisa - I went to a female, NHS consultant dermatologist about a mole on my face and she too checked all of my body. I don't think there was anything dodgy about what happened to you.

[lisalisa]

Thanks everyone for reassuring me about the dermatologist. he did seem very professional and at no time made any inappropriate comments or touched me wrongly but it just felt so unexpected and wrong. Perhaps a better way woudl have been to offer me a blanket so he could examine part of me at a time rather than leaving me so exposed for 15-20 minutes

[Eurostar]

That's a long time, no wonder you were embarrassed, mine was over and done in 5 mins, that could be NHS appointment length versus private though! I'm pretty sure she did touch me though, she ran her hand over some of the moles.

[sausagerolemodel]

Aged 10 I was to appear in a very minor role in a professional opera (SNO) in Glasgow. In order to appear I had to get have a medical check by my family GP. During this he took me into a side room (away from my Dad, who had accompanied me to the appointment) and had a look at my vulva and inserted a finger into my vagina. I still cannot fathom why this might have been necessary, as all I needed was a cert. of fitness to perform. It would have been 1982. Weird or normal?

[2rebecca]

Regular pelvic examinations and breast examinations used to be recommended for women on the pill and HRT, and women in early pregnancy used to have pelvic examinations to see if their pelvis was big enough and pelvic examination were routine postnatally.

With more evidence based medicine, and easily available pelvic ultrasounds pelvic examinations are done much more rarely now.

30 years ago your GP would not have been regarded as a pervert, just thorough.

[Emilizz]

Sausagerolemodel,
I cannot think of any reason why a doctor would have to examine you in this way . You were only attending for a medical and not because you had some kind of gynae symptoms.

Did you tell your parents about this?