My husband is a total twunt, isn't he????

[wandymum]

This evening I was supposed to be going out for drinks with the mums from DS's prep-school.

Weeks ago, I sent DH an e-mail asking if he could come home early (for him - about 8pm) so I could go. He replied yes. I wrote it on the calendar (over which we have had many 'Outnubered' style rows in the past).

Today we have had both sets of grandparents here for lunch plus builders starting work and two under 5s to chase around. I forgot to remind him this morning, but left a voicemail and a message with his secretary asking him to call me. I sent a text to his mobile and left a voicemail on it - we were in the car on speaker so kids heard his answerphone kick in too (bizarre detail now but will become relevant).

He didn't turn up. I sent a text saying understand you have a lot on and have forgotten, don't worry have cancelled (had arranged lifts etc... so all slightly awkward but these things happen).

He arrived a couple of hours later in a grump because I hadn't cooked. Very grumpy.

I complained this was unfair given that I hadn't even expected to be in (was actually pretty polite considering). He said I had never told him about my plans.

Showed him my e-mail and his response, calendar and texts.

He says I verbally told him I didn't want to go and that I have the wrong mobile number for him so he never got the messages. I really don't believe I can do because when we called from the car his voice was on the answerphone. DS is 4 so will be able to confirm tomorrow. He doens't deny I left a voicemail on his work phone but says as I didn't say it was urgent, I shouldn't have expected a response.

He is a total arse isn't he?

If not then I must be insane and, despite some close calls in the past few years, I'm pretty sure I am not.

What do I do?

It really wouldn't be a big issue if he'd just say sorry I f**ked up but am freaked out by his insistance it is my fault.

[NewNames]

And no financial disparity isn't the key.

What is? Don't say maintaining the perfect family unit is - you must know that in nonsense really.

Too lazy? Too scary? You love him?

[wandymum]

Thank you, YellowTulips - that's what I'm going to go for. No more pushover.

[YellowTulips]

Good for you

[dreamingbohemian]

x-post

Yes, I also disagree with HHMF (sorry!) -- as I said earlier, I think wanting to stay no matter what is not entirely rational, and counseling can help you work through this.

In a perfect world, you would tell someone treating you with such contempt to fuck off. If you can't quite get there, I think CBT is pretty good for breaking down the thought processes that keep us mired in low expectations.

[Iamnotamindreader]

The therapy you have had has cleared your mind enough to see this for what it is and reconnect with your screaming instincts.

Why is it so important to you to facilitate a relationship between your children and a man who clearly doesn't want this?

Staying in the relationship won't change the fact that he views them and you as way down his list of priorities and tbh it might hurt them less to be out of that atmosphere than to be confronted with the damning evidence of his lack of interest in them day after day.

Does your DS deserve to be saddled with the millstone of your husband as a role model of an adult male? Do you want to see him do this to his partner in years to come or be attracted to relationships where his partners do it to him because that is what you are teaching him and you know it.

He won't do counselling so what will he do when you confront him again with the evidence of his behaviour? Will he call you mentally unstable? An unfit mother? He migh tnot but there are so many horrible ways this can escalate without arguments and violence and all of them undermine your self confidence and maybe even your relationship with the rest of your family if he sees the writing on the wall and tries to convince them you are ill. What if he undermines your relationship with your children?

These are events you need to consider as a possibility if you stay. If you go he may try them anyway but at least he would have less to go on and be less credible plus you would have a space away from him.
It is your decision but be aware staying may have a more unpredictable effect than leaving on your children.

[rhondajean]

Be strong.

Your children will not be happier in a family where the mother is treated like a doormat and they are a distant priority.

I do think many people give up too easily on relationships because of greener grass, but this isn't a situation like that. It won't improve. And you didn't do anything, his opinion of you changed, you became a mother and he can't handle that.

I personally would have kneed him in the balls before leaving for several days and letting him sort it out, but I can accept I am both immature and reactionary, also I am not married to a a man who would act like that.

Be strong. X

[perfumedlife]

So he strolls in about 10pm in a mood with you about no dinner,, when he's stood you up, ignored your messages and you've hosted both sets of grandparents with two kids and the builders in?

In what planet is this called a life?

[TheSkiingGardener]

God he sounds horrible. I'm so glad you've got the clarity now to see things as they are. Time to confront him with some bare truths I think. Along the lines of "I will not be gaslighted or treated with contempt. Sort it out or bugger off." His reaction to that will tell you everything you need to know.

Good luck.

[TubbyDuffs]

I can't believe you had to leave so many messages/reminders about a night out in the first place! He is definitely a twunt.

If you are adamant that you are staying with him "for the sake of the children", then in future I would just book a babysitter and let him know you are going out. Has he got a diary/calendar which you could ask him to note the date on (in front of you, there and then)?

I wouldn't rely on him, but then again, I wouldn't still be with him! He sound arrogant, entitled and disinterested... what a catch.

[Longdistance]

Op, he's a wanker.

Sorry, not much more to add on the subject!

[EugenesAxe]

Wow... thanks hk78; never heard the term before. It says in the Wiki entry it's often used by sociopaths... and wasn't there some news recently about how many men in the top eschilons of business (which your DH appears to be) are actually sociopaths? Maybe worth seeing if he has other traits.

He was out of order; I don't know what you should do though. Leaving him is a bit extreme unless this is the tip of the iceberg and you are deeply unhappy in general. My DH doesn't gaslight so much as exaggerate unfairly when he's cross. When I only took DS to church and left him with DD he said 'so, you'll be gone for about two and a half hours then?'. That pisses me off.

Aside: I liked the 'See Also' bit on the entry... loads of serious things and finally 'The Twits'. Although it does happen there even if it's regaled in an entertaining and childish way.

[thetrackisback]

Please get back to cbt. You have seen the manipulation and now you need to deal with it. You need to get your assertive pants on now. On this particular issue you need to tell him you feel really upset. He is a grown man and should be able to organise himself to do this without a lot of reminders. He has treated you with contempt and you expect an apology and don't move from that position.

[MmeLindor]

Oh, OP. Please listen to those who have been there and escaped.

Don't accept this half life. And be aware that emotional abuse is often followed by physical abuse.

Don't accept this for your children.

They will model their behaviour on what they see at home - and don't believe they won't notice. Kids see much more than we think we do.

Your kids will grow up with the impression that this kind of controlling and emotionally abusive behaviour is acceptable, even normal.

I also think that a lot of what we call 'childhood bullying' shares similar traits to the behaviour you describe.

The cold shoulder treatment, interspersed with being so lovely that you think you have done something wrong.

The shifting of blame, not taking responsibility.

You don't want them to grow up like that.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

wandymum,

No-one benefits from being in an abusive relationship and yours screams emotionally abusive from many angles. I would seriously consider talking to Womens Aid.

I guess too he was charm personified when you met and married. It is when children come along and their position of being top dog in their mind's eye is usurped that their true nature (i.e all of what you are seeing now) really comes into play.

My guess too is that he has always been on some levels emotionally abusive towards you but such abuse is insidious in its onset and thus not easy at all to spot especially in the early days. it can therefore become ignored or minimised.

Children are very perceptive and they know already that things are amiss between the two of you. Perhaps they even blame themselves for this ongoing conflict. Also couples counselling is never ever recommended where there is ongoing abuse because such dominator men control sessions, manipulate counsellors and make it all out to be the other person's fault.

If you do have counselling it would be to talk freely and openly about the relationship with your H and why you currently also want to cling on to this wreakage.

Also what do you know about your H's childhood, what is his relationship with his parents like now?.

Staying for the children will just teach your children a whole load of crap that they will also carry over into their own adult relationships. What do you yourself want to teach your children about relationships?. This current model is certainly not fit for purpose and both of you are imparting damaging lessons to them. I would also argue that your children as adults or even early teens would not thank you for staying with such an individual but would regard you as weak for doing so. They could also ask you as adults why you chose to put him before them. I would also consider the distinct possibility that he will start on them in the same ways as he is doing towards you now when they are older.

What did you learn about relationships when growing up?.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

What do you get out of this relationship now?

[CailinDana]

Why don't you confront him (calmly) about it? It's written in the calendar, which should be enough without you having to call him and email him multiple times. Asking him why the situation arose and hearing what he has to say about it will probably help you to see what's really going on here.

[SorryMyLollipop]

He is a twunt. You and the DC will be better off without him. Children are very intuitive, they will pick up your sadness and his contempt for you, even if you manage not to argue in front of them.

I left my H, it was scary but worth it. Our lives are happier, calmer and I am more confident than ever.

Good luck with deciding what is right for all of you.

[catsmother]

I might be wrong but all this guff about you having the wrong number for him on your phone (and why the heck did he need to "go off" with your phone for 10 mins ?!? , unless, as others have suggested, he changed 1 or more digits to support his claim) ..... I'm getting the impression that maybe you're doubting yourself a tiny bit ? Despite being sure you heard his voice. Maybe if you had irrefutable evidence that he's lying - would that help your resolve ? Would you really want to stay, when you're capable of supporting your kids on your own, with someone who not only fails to apologise when in the wrong, but who also lies, and not only lies, but makes out you must be "mad" (especially cruel thing to do to anyone who's ever suffered MH problems) and also, maybe, deliberately sets things up to make it appear as if you were at fault.

Anyway, key to this, for me, would be to ask him first off what the correct number should be. Compare that to your phone entry - but not in front of him. Then get hold of your call records from your mobile company and check what number you called when you were in the car (would suggest looking at call records on your phone too, either there's going to be a log for the call which will show the number, or that record will somehow have mysteriously disappeared - if so, very suspicious). Compare the two ..... if different, then it's pretty obvious he's tampered with your phone.

If that turns out to be the case I'd be very worried. You've alluded to past similar incidents - which you've blamed on your PND. What's to say this pattern won't continue and/or get worse ? Your kids will pick up on it sooner or later. Do you really want them to see you as "silly mummy" - or worse - when yet again he does a number on you ? I've read similar stuff on here where the kids end up with no respect for their mother and pretty much hold her in the same contempt their father does. Yes .... they'd see less of him, but by the sounds of it, they don't see a great deal of him now anyway and his attention is often elsewhere. So not much difference. Far better they have an emotionally healthy and strong mum setting them a great example the vast majority of the time, than grow up with you on the back foot all the time, walking on eggshells, being let down, insulted and treated like dirt.

[toomuchmonthatendofthemoney]

OP are you ok today? This must be so so hard, but women here are telling you the truth of the situation after learning the hard way. How are you doing this morning? Did you talk to twuntface at all?

[PropositionJoe]

As another ex divorce lawyer now at home and married to an equity partner (as they used to be known) can I say - get back into work as soon as you can. Preserve your earning capacity, you might need it.

[AgathaFusty]

Abusiveness is his personality. He won't change. You can't change him.
At some point, he will probably become abusive to your children, because that is what he is. You won't be able to stop that either, and neither will your children. You need to protect them from that.
If he doesn't want to be a parent to them, he won't be, whether you live with him or not - he has already proven that.

[HecateLarpo]

You say that you stay for the children, but they barely see him anyway. Plus a very very important thing to consider is this - when your children grow up and begin to have relationships of their own, what is their frame of reference? Do you have a daughter? Would you want this husband for her? Do you want your son to grow up to think this is how a man behaves?

You may not argue in front of them, but do you think that they don't absorb everything?

You can't control how your husband chooses to behave, but you can control whether or not you accept it. You're not powerless.

Please don't stay in a horrible situation thinking you are saving the kids from something, because that's not necessarily true.

And you deserve to be happy too!

[fiventhree]

I bloody well recognise this man, because I was married to him for 20 years before he started to change a year ago. We are still together.

I can even relate to the exact examples- we would have hours of rows eventually about this sort of stuff. I remember once after I finally dragged him out with friends (another couple) and their kids for a day, he walked behind us texting all day and after I muttered an embarrassed complaint, he actually threw his phone in the hedge in temper, ignored me for a week because he held me responsible (and hence for the loss of his work contact numbers) , and then finally revealed that he had managed to pick it up after a few minutes and actually still had it all along.

And all that work stuff, and workaholic stuff, and being right stuff, and marrying a professional woman with a better career than him and reducing her to an exhausted secretary- like mess: yes, been there and done that. At Relate, our work language with each other was one of the discussion topics- it was the only way you dared engage him, without a disagreement.

It ends in this sort of situation: five years of infidelity, which you are persuaded that you have imagined and got wrong and how could you think that of him. Kids who are teenage and who are unhappy and beyond your management, because he manages his guilt for his absense and laziness with them by buying them off behind your back, and sometimes in front of you (and in the process, possibly hopes he may improve his case to keep them , in case you finally divorce him).

Because really, despite all the 'intelligent' debate, you matter less than him, in all ways.

If you have any plans to stay with him, you really need to wise up. I agree that part time work, of any sort, would be a brilliant idea. You do have skills, and transferable ones at that.

Can I also recommend two books, as better than any counselling you could pay for:

Frank Pittman, Man enough: fathers, sons and the search for masculinity, (where you will get a full roadmap of how your husband thinks) and also

Cloud and Townsend , Boundaries: When to Say YES, When to Say NO, To Take Control of Your Life, to help you to identify how you have been 'managed' and how to make sure that you protect yourself better ( a bit heavy on christian references, but brilliant, nonetheless).