My husband is a total twunt, isn't he????

[wandymum]

This evening I was supposed to be going out for drinks with the mums from DS's prep-school.

Weeks ago, I sent DH an e-mail asking if he could come home early (for him - about 8pm) so I could go. He replied yes. I wrote it on the calendar (over which we have had many 'Outnubered' style rows in the past).

Today we have had both sets of grandparents here for lunch plus builders starting work and two under 5s to chase around. I forgot to remind him this morning, but left a voicemail and a message with his secretary asking him to call me. I sent a text to his mobile and left a voicemail on it - we were in the car on speaker so kids heard his answerphone kick in too (bizarre detail now but will become relevant).

He didn't turn up. I sent a text saying understand you have a lot on and have forgotten, don't worry have cancelled (had arranged lifts etc... so all slightly awkward but these things happen).

He arrived a couple of hours later in a grump because I hadn't cooked. Very grumpy.

I complained this was unfair given that I hadn't even expected to be in (was actually pretty polite considering). He said I had never told him about my plans.

Showed him my e-mail and his response, calendar and texts.

He says I verbally told him I didn't want to go and that I have the wrong mobile number for him so he never got the messages. I really don't believe I can do because when we called from the car his voice was on the answerphone. DS is 4 so will be able to confirm tomorrow. He doens't deny I left a voicemail on his work phone but says as I didn't say it was urgent, I shouldn't have expected a response.

He is a total arse isn't he?

If not then I must be insane and, despite some close calls in the past few years, I'm pretty sure I am not.

What do I do?

It really wouldn't be a big issue if he'd just say sorry I f**ked up but am freaked out by his insistance it is my fault.

[Jux]

I hope you had fun, Wandy.

[MrsWembley]

Excellent! Pleased you've found your get up and go and took it out with you!

[CuriousMama]

what she said ^^

[achillea]

Good on you wandymum.

Next time you go out make sure it's during the day so they can have their FUN DAY WITH DADDY!

as Madda suggests.

[CuriousMama]

:)

[Bogeyface]

I wonder if he can smell a turning worm......

But dont relax just yet, he might be Mr Wonderful for a couple of weeks and then when he thinks you have stopped going on about it, slip back into his old ways.

Remember, for this to be your new normal you have to stick to it. Dont ask, tell.

[wandymum]

I've left him home with the DCs and am off out for dinner and drinks with friends. He didn't resist.

[PoppyField]

Yes, how are you today OP?

[CuriousMama]

How are you OP?

[BessieMcBean]

But I do agree that getting a life (free time, job etc) would be the best thing to do OP, then you can look afresh at your relationship with DH, from a happier and more confident perspective.

[BessieMcBean]

Yes, agree that he probably wont' read any passive aggressive literature, he will probably bin it, but it's a method of showing him that he has faults, that they are not just you being difficult/critical. I also didn't intend anyone to explain to him what his psychological issues are I intended to make the point to the OP that he has the probs not her so she should stop the point scoring etc.

Also agree that leaving him with the kids for a day will give you a break but I don't feel that giving him a clear lecture and going out for the day will make any major change. Chances are he will start having vital meetings or whatever on the days you start demanding to have off.

I feel he is past all this, to be honest, insisting on the odd day to do your own thing maybe once a week will help OP but I don't see it changing DH. But maybe I am just being pessimistic.

[madda]

amd yes, you will feel guilty, miss the DCs or even womder if they are ok with him for those few hours, but for your sanity, just bloody do it. start getting your life back, one weekend day each week. you deserve it, and he must be reminded that you will not carry the home and raise the dcs without his input

tell him gently but directly you are going out tomorrow or sunday

dont ask if you can go, just inform him you are going

you have to do it

[madda]

agree achillea

OP can you think of a regular weekend thing for just you, go out for a walk, cafe, shops for the day, tell him you need this each week. tell him this is what is happening, thank him for his understanding.

get up early, shower, go out. tell your DCs you'll beack around teatime, and they'll have a FUN day with DADDY!!!!!!

you have to start doing this, giving him parenting duties, and taking your break, so he sees you as an independent woman, with needs and messages of your own to attend to.

he will get the message - I've done this, and it worked wonders

[startlife]

No advice to add but reading with interest as I have a very similar H. I have struggled with 'labels' for his behaviour (PA, avoidant attachment, AS) but have finally realised he just doesn't care enough about me. His priority is him, his work, his hobby, his relationship with the dc's (but maybe not the dc's if that makes sense) and somewhere very low down the list is me.

He talks a good talk - that's why I've struggled to see the wood for the trees - but ultimately it's always my fault. Even when he let me down following surgery, it was my fault for not stopping him from being a twat.
He has had an awful upbringing - aggressive mother and uninvolved dad and today his family show no emotion or genuine care for each other, they are however terribly polite. It's confusing as I think I was conditioned to assume softly spoken polite people are caring.

Like you OP, it changed when dc came along. Previously I was an equal (actually more senior than H) and I didn't need his support. Something about being needed seems to cause the opposite reaction. We have been to counselling, we may try again as my DC's deserve that, however I will be stronger this time. At least I now see the agenda and the manipulation.

I wished I had woke up to his behaviour a long time ago - my self esteem has suffered enormously. I completely agree about going back to work. I 'gave' up too much for H as I assumed we would look after and support each other. His agenda has always been to get the life he wants.

[achillea]

I'm sorry but talking to a man like this about pscyhology, passive aggression or personality disorders is not going to make any difference. I think you have to speak his language. He will see it as a lecture. The only thing a macho man understands is clear and direct confrontation, black and white yes or no. Do this or do that.

He really doesn't sound like the type of bloke that's going to read a printout about passive aggression and go "oh yes I see it now, if only you could have explained it to me earlier"!

[achillea]

The more I think about it, the more I think the underlying problem is that he is a workaholic.

And perhaps your contacting him at work (although you obviously have no choice) is the only way you can remind him that you want him home?

If he is a workaholic he needs help to give up his addiction. This is a big one, but you do need to be very very clear with him that it's either you and his children, or his job. He needs to see that if he carries on he will lose you all. Try to stick to the point, you have been sidetracked with the details (emails, who said what and when). The crux of this is that he now has a family and he should spend time with them if that's what they want.

Some men get so bloody macho about earning a lot so that their wife and children can have "the best" - the most expensive everything, the best holidays. They don't want to slip back in the workplace. You need to tell him that it's him you want, not his money.

[BessieMcBean]

Your OH sounds extremely patriarchal and traditional so maybe he will listen to his father

My DH was very 'partriarchal and tradional' but by all rights that should really read my DH was very repressed and unemotional (but wouldn't/couldn't see it as a fault)
with low self worth which he had to boost by getting admiration and 'respect' from his work
and witheld love and open support for the kids (which he kidded himself was traditional values)
whilst probably being jealous of them getting my attention ( I surmise cos god knows why he didn't show warmth to them)
so in fact was a psychologically screwed up fuckwit, not a selfish and angry man that I needed to sort out .

And my DH didn't behave in nearly an unpleasant and extreme a manner as the OH's.

If I was OP I would print out the passive-aggressive info and give it to DH and say that I think it applies to him. Perhaps have counselling with a relate counsellor (alone) to see what they suggest. One of the problems with a workaholic is that they are hardly ever there so it is really difficult to talk /row things through to conclusion because they will probably clam up and then you don't see them for days to make any decisions/ changes.

[EternalHope]

OP, this is all so You loved him before because you never had to ask for help or support so didn't notice that he was not giving you any. Since DC, you have needed help and support and he has failed to provide it. It's possible he just doesn't realise - say, if you have not had enough self esteem to ask properly and you may seem so competent and in control that he doesn't stop to think, but it sounds like you have left him in no doubt with this latest incident and he has not responded.

Do you want to be with this man in your old age when ideally a couple support each other in all sorts of ways? He would be all take and no give by the sound of it. Ultimately that is going to make you miserable. Of course your DH got your messages the other night btw - he would not function in his job if he did not read/listen to messages. He CHOSE to ignore them. I am so sorry.

Before you get his parents on board, have a think about whether he is modelling the relationship that they themselves had, or is your MIL in fact cherished by your FIL?

Lastly, sometimes high earning professionals get such an inflated sense of their own importance at work that they forget to be an equal partner at home and instead think of themselves as all important demi-gods. There is NO excuse for that, actually, so don't let it continue.

Good luck. It's not you!!

[Hanikam]

OP, could you speak to his parents about this? Of course it will depend on how close you are with your in-laws. My SILs are very supportive, rather than MIL or FIL.

Your OH sounds extremely patriarchal and "traditional" so maybe he will listen to his father?

Just an idea. Good luck!

[madda]

ah forgot about the looking at porn bit

he's sounding like a busy workaholic secretive twunt now

maybe broach the subject of what you saw him watching, to get the issue cleared up, if he knows you know would he be likely to try and mend his behaviour? but not if you feel scared of doing that, iyswim

I'm still torn on this one, as is it every 6mths he's a twunt, or weekly? Good idea of Fiventhree to keep a log/diary, to keep yourself on track

do you have family support close by? or do you feel isolated?

[CuriousMama]

Wandy how awful for you. I know what it's like when the blinkers come off. I was also married to someone who hid his head in the sand. He was a lawyer too, but criminal not marital like you. He worked all hours but tbh thinking back I think there was stuff going on too.

Just be careful and look after yourself as I was quite ill emotionally after I realised how awful my marriage was. I lost loads of weight too.

He didn't spend much time with the dcs but when with them he was good. Now he spends every weekend with them as they go to his. I met a lovely man and we've lived together 4 years, he's a great role model to dcs and they totally respect him. Plus he looks out for them and gets annoyed when ds1 is favoured over ds2.

Sorry for the ramble but I'm just saying it's not always worse for the dcs. And you just saw the beginnings of the split when you were working as a family lawyer. Yes it's disruptive but smooths out if you're both adult about it. Exdh and I get on well, I still cut his hair after all these years You may be surprised if you do decide to get away from the twunt? It could shock him into being a better father?

Do you have any close girlfriends in RL? They're a godsend.

[fiventhree]

Keeping a diary of these incidents can also help you to see clear and work against self doubt.

[arthriticfingers]

I think the underlying problem is that he is a fuckwit
There is no - I repeat - no - excuse - ever - for 'blowing up' at people.
None whatsoever
Unless, of course, you are an entitled fuckwit who thinks that your are, indeed, entitled to.
Sorry Wandy but I have done the workaholic excuse. There are a whole list of excuses - the bad childhood excuse; the 'emotions' excuse ...
All made by others - entitled fuckwits are just that: entitled in their own minds to behave as they please (but only at home) outside they pass for human beings.
As is often said here, what do you want? Do you have to live life the way he dictates it? Do you not have the right to be heard? Or does earning a salary override common decency?

[QuietTiger]

I cannot think of a time since we have had the children that he has apologised to me. Including when I came home from an ERPC to find he'd been looking at 'shag your secretary porn' - which somehow turned out to be my fault because I'd caused him to feel so emotional he'd needed the release.

This alone would be a complete deal breaker for me, quite apart from all the other crap your "D"h puts you through. My DH is a complete workaholic and I'm talking cancelled holidays, 100 hour weeks, and work being a priority (He's a farmer), but he still finds time to be there when I need him to, look after me when I'm ill, ALWAYS answer my calls or at the very least return them as soon as he can if he misses one, and generally treat me with respect and consideration.

Your husband is a complete twunt. He should not be treating you like a piece of shit he picked up on his shoe on a hot day - which he is.

[fiventhree]

Wandy, Realy good to see you are still here.

That is how it was for me. I think the workaholism and a lot of the other stuff you talked about can sometimes go hand in hand.

I had facial cellulitis three times and twice was asked to go to hospital for inpatient treatment, an both times I couldnt because he put his work first, and didnt want to look after the kids. The second time, looking back, he had managed to make it look like it was my preference, not his.

This stuff is all part of a package, which is about who he is as a person. It isnt to do with him being 'bad' or 'good', but it is really the sign of someone who is highly status driven and at the same time willing to lower your status to improve his, if that makes sense. What is at the bottom of it is poor self worth, in all probability.

I spent far too long not seeing this, and then longer worrying about him and why he was like he was. I should have been thinking more about what is fair, my own boundaries, and how to manage them.

Also, I relate to the difficulty in keeping up the annoyance. For years, even when I was furious with him for some selfishness or other, he got round me by amusing me (his favoured trick) or just keeping it going longer than me, or making it all my fault in fact- see this list here- I bet it will be an eye opener:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_manipulation#Basic_manipulative_strategy_of_a_psychopath

When my h finally changed, he laughed at this list and agreed he had used all but one, in order to get himself out of difficult situations with me or get what he wanted for himself.

I think Keats idea is a brilliant one for starters- namely, get centred for you, and ensure equality.

A couple of really good books to recommend:

Cloud and Thompson- When to say yes and when to say no (its good and very practical on how to improve your boundaries, if a bit annoying christian)

and also Frank Pittman - Man enough (brilliant on placing the kind of man youve married and helping you to rethink what it is fair to expect, without being too 1980s radical feminist about it).