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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

What to do about my Sister?

155 replies

happygoluckyinOz · 15/10/2012 02:21

As the title suggests, I don't know what to do about my sister.

Background is this:

There are three siblings: me (29) my brother (27) and my sister (20). I left home at 19 to go to University and I never moved back, went straight to London afterwards to start work. I've never really had a close relationship with my sister as I left home when she was 9. My brother left school and did an apprentiship as a mechanic and has been doing that ever since. He gave my parents a lot of grief from the age of about 16 and treated them like utter crap until a few years ago. They bailed him out numerous times (driving without insurance, without MOT etc) and he has owed them money for years with no real drive to pay them back (despite earning double their combined income now). He moved out at around 18/19 as well as my parents couldn't take living with him anymore - my father was on the verge of a heart attack every time they had a screaming match he was so angry. He moved back a couple of times down the years until he moved out to Australia 3 years ago.

I also moved out to Australia last year and since both me and my brother now live here my parents also want to move and have put in a visa application to come (a long held dream to move here even before we moved out).

So to my sister - she's always been a bit of the 'odd one out' really. As there was quite a gap in ages between us she's been like an only child since my brother and I moved out. My parents, I think, have pandered to her, she's done whatever she likes whenever she likes. Because if she didn't get her own way her fiery temper would unleash - my mums a sensitive soul, any little thing sets her off so she'd just back off and leave her alone.

This, I think, has got us into the current situation.

She finished her A'levels at school last year and had not applied to go to University as she didn't know if she wanted to. She finished school and would spend her whole day in bed because she had spent the whole night on the internet and on the xbox. She had a part-time job cleaning at her old school, but it was only 15 hours a week. This went on for 6 months with my parents having constant battles with her over what she was going to do with her life - to which she didn't know and would refuse to talk to them about it, she'd just shut herself in her room. She decided to apply for university, but didn't get on the course she wanted (she only wanted to do one course at one university - wouldn't apply anywhere else or for anything else).

So my parents, feeling guilty that they wanted to move to Australia decided that the best thing to do would be to enrol her in University in Australia and she'd come out and live with us. Now as she's not a resident or citizen this means she's an international student and has to pay international student fees - currently $10,000 per semester ($20,000 per year / £12,700). Now my parents are not wealthy by any stretch and have spent most of their life struggling from one credit card to the next. These fees have to be paid up front - there is no student loan for international students. My sister thought this was a great idea, she'd come to university in Oz and 'start again' - get away from the Computer and its hold on her and start afresh. The proviso was that my parents would pay the first semester and then she would get a job to pay the next semester's fees (she is allowed to work 20 hours a week and could easily have saved up).

My brother and I agreed that she could stay with us and initially she went to stay with my brother (as he has a 5 bed house and we have a 2 bed flat). My brother works away for 2 weeks at a time and comes home for a week - so she was with his fiancé most of the time. This seemed to work for a while as she was company for her. But this came to a head 3 weeks ago when his fiancé basically kicked her out due to arguments over cleaning the house. She just wouldn't do it - she'd clean up after herself but was doing nothing else to contribute to the house (they paid for everything, including her food) so his fiancé got fed up and said she should come and live with me and my husband.

So she's now with us. But I'm worried about her. She has gone back (or never really stopped) to being on the computer all night and spending all her time in bed in her room. Over this weekend she has probably spent around 1 hour outside of her room since Friday evening and it's now Monday morning. She comes out for dinner (because I make it for her) and then goes straight back in again. She goes to sleep at around 4am and doesn't get up until 2pm, and then still stays in bed on her Computer, maybe getting up and having a shower at 6pm. She has not joined any groups at university, she's missing lectures and classes because she can't get out of bed to go to them in a morning. She doesn't meet anyone after class, doesn't go anywhere on a weekend. She doesn't eat anything other than dinner in an evening - and that's only because I've made it for her. She's as white as a sheet because she doesn't go outside!

She hasn't got a job since she?s been here because 'she wasn't ready yet' and refused to talk about it with me. She won?t talk to my husband and seems painfully shy and awkward around him, which is making for an awkward living situation for us (when she comes out of her room that is).

So, I just don't know what to do for the best here. My parents are talking about putting her next semester fees on their credit card (due in Feb) but I'm just not sure the answer is to keep throwing money at her and paying for everything. We're all going home at Christmas because my brother is getting married in England, and I'm thinking it would just be better if she didn't come back and tried to make a life in England rather than my parents keep spending money on her out here. But then I think the problems would just remain there too.

This is all stressful for us because obviously having a third adult in the house is costing us money - especially since she's on the internet all the time (we had a limit of 8GB a month for broadband, it's only the 15th and it's all gone) and she's using so much electricity in her room it's heated up by it all! My husband isn't working because he was laid off in August, so it's just me earning and I feel like I didn't sign up to pay for my sister with her contributing nothing and not making a go of a life here for herself. I feel like it would be all worth it if I could see a change in her, and she was going out and having a good time - gaining some self-confidence, but she's not.

I know if I go back to my mum with this she's going to be devastated and equally I'm not sure how to talk to my sister as everything I say she gets defensive and shuts down.

I'm really sorry for the essay, I just don't know where to turn! Sad

OP posts:
diddl · 24/10/2012 18:32

Yes-the ones not in agreement are all too far away to have her.

Maybe she can change Unis & move in with brother 50km away!

NorthernBabe · 24/10/2012 19:54

Just wanted to say I think you're doing a great job Happy and I can see why you're letting her stay until the end of term.

The only thing I can add to everyone's great ideas and your own plan is maybe make an appointment at the Uni counselling place but go with her (even if you sit outside during the appointment) and maybe make this one of your conditions. I know people may say this is more enabling but sometimes I think people need a big push and can't see when they've got a problem. If she started to get help now it would give you both time to see if it helps before you're parents think about paying any more money for her.

Good luck with it all

Toomanycuppas · 25/10/2012 01:19

Hi Happy - how did DH get on at the pub quiz? Oh, I do love a good trivia or quiz night. National flower of Wales? I'm your girl.

Anyway, I also understand why you are letting her stay for now - did I mention my 45 year old teenage brother? Enough said.

Good about the fees, not your problem, not your business. And the car, again not your problem.

Wishing you and your DH all the best and hope you enjoy your new life in OzSmile

happygoluckyinOz · 25/10/2012 08:46

Thanks Toomany we intend to once we can get DH into a job and this problem out of our flat! [simle]

We both went to the quiz - it was good fun and held in our local Irish bar, we were meeting people we didn't know from one of these social networking sites. It's tough meeting new people so figured we'd try out 'friend dating' - Lol!

I had a really good chat with my mum last night about everything and we cleared up that we would most certainly not be accommodating her on her return from England - she now 100% gets this.

Sis didn't want to move out into Halls now - she doesn't want to spend her money. Apparently she's saving up to go to America in June next year.... I kid you not!

I just nodded and said Ok, it's not my concern in 7 weeks time what she does, it's between her and my parents.

OP posts:
AttilaTheMeerkat · 25/10/2012 09:01

"Sis didn't want to move out into Halls now - she doesn't want to spend her money. Apparently she's saving up to go to America in June next year.... I kid you not!"

LOL. With whose money?.

What's happening with her job at the supermarket?. Is she now working?.

I do have sympathies with your plight but what you are doing by keeping her there for another seven weeks is only prolonging your own agonies. You're still playing the game.

Not kicking her out for seven weeks only postpones the overall difficulties in getting her out of your home. She won't go without a fight and in the meatime will continue to freeload and toss her weight around. She knows you're a soft touch and is not taking you seriously.

happygoluckyinOz · 25/10/2012 09:30

With the money she's going to save from working at the Supermarket apparently! She is now working, but only 7 hours a week - certainly needs to be getting up to her 20 hour a week limit to make any dent in what she needs to pay out.

Attila to hear what you are saying - but are you honestly suggesting I pack up her things whilst she's out, change the locks and leave everything in the car park? Because that's effectively what kicking her out means. She has no money and no where to go. Yes she is the biggest pain the backside at the moment to us - but she hasn't done anything which would warrant me to treat her in that way. She hasn't stolen from us, been abusive or broken anything of ours - she's just behaved like a spoilt child.

I'm trying to do the best I can with the situation I have, for me that's to let her stay another 7 weeks and do her exams, then make sure she's packed up before she heads back to the UK and clearly knows she is not moving back in. She knows that any more outbursts like the one at the weekend and she will be on the first plane back to England.

OP posts:
happygoluckyinOz · 25/10/2012 09:37

That should read Attila I hear what you are saying....

OP posts:
dysfunctionalme · 25/10/2012 09:49

happy I think you're handling an extremely tricky situation really well. I understand why you feel you could not kick her out. I really hope the next 7 weeks are not too stressful, do let us know how you get on.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 25/10/2012 11:07

"Attila to hear what you are saying - but are you honestly suggesting I pack up her things whilst she's out, change the locks and leave everything in the car park? Because that's effectively what kicking her out means. She has no money and no where to go. Yes she is the biggest pain the backside at the moment to us - but she hasn't done anything which would warrant me to treat her in that way. She hasn't stolen from us, been abusive or broken anything of ours - she's just behaved like a spoilt child".

A spoilt child who is 20 years of age. She's no child but is still in a childlike six year old state of arrested development. She seems narcissistic in terms of personality.

She has and continues to freeload off you and cause you anguish. Yes I am suggesting that you pack her stuff up. She will find somewhere to go besides which the uni have already offered her use of a room within a 5 bed apartment. Tough love is necessary.

How can she do her exams at all if she keeps missing lectures?.

I am coming across undoubtedly as harsh yes but you are making precisely the same errors that my ILs have done and are doing and their retirement as a result is ruined. Different situations yes but the same mistakes are being made and its their fault primarily. He has cost them dearly emotionally and financially but they have not helped him by doing as they have towards him as you are really not with regards to your sister. Whilst you are dealing with her she is not your birth family's problem.

How is she going to travel to the US (unless of course the Bank of Mum and Dad pay).

You are her sister, not her parent and you cannot continue to parent her. What you have done for her is in no way appreciated and she still despises you for trying to help her. Your parents are the ones, who apart from her own self, are also responsible for how your sister is now.

She has not done anything to treat you this way (!)Hmm and you would not call her behaviour abusive - well unfortunately this is pretty much to the contrary:-

"Saturday, DH and I went out for the day on a whale watching tour - was loads of fun. We came home to Sis in her room on the Computer, not very communcative as usual. She came out for her dinner - at which point I told her we are not cooking for her anymore (as she'd complained that we eat a lot of Asian and Indian food and she doesn't like it) to which she said 'fine but I'll eat like a student then' - well you are a student, so eat like one.

10.30pm came around and she came into the living room so we told her the internet was going off in 30 minutes. She proceeded to rant and rave telling us how it was a Saturday night and she didn't have anything to get up for so she should be able to have it on later. How we had 'no right' to turn it off or dictate to her when she goes online, how I'm not her mother so can't tell her what to do, how she was going to call mum and get her to get me to turn it back on I said that would be impressive from the UK. DH took over the argument as she was really upsetting - he wouldn't give in so she STAMPED HER FOOT (I mean...really?!) and then hurled a box of (our) books that she was stood next to on the floor sending them flying across the living room (since moving to Oz we haven't bought a bookcase yet so there are 8 boxes of books stacked in the hallway). She then stomped to her room and slammed the door".

She has you on a piece of string which she can yank as and when needed. She still has people looking out for her and prempting all of life's difficulties for her. Sheilding her from the consequences of her actions helps no-one.

If you want to really help your sister, you're going to have to cut the string permanently. When she does leave she does not return to your home and live there.

Do you think that she will actually leave quietly in 7 weeks time?.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 25/10/2012 11:11

I would also argue she is deliberately not working more hours at the supermarket so she does not have to take the uni up on their offer of a room for her in a 5 bed apartment.

NotQuintAtAllOhNo · 25/10/2012 11:32

She is not a child. She is a sponging 20 year old adult who is refusing to grow up and learn to be independent.

You are treating her like she is a 14 year old girl who is playing up, not an adult.

MadameCastafiore · 25/10/2012 11:36

You are allowing her to behave like this (you are a facilitator) - I would say you are part of the problem keeping making excuses for an adult behaving like a child - bet she loves you - sits in her room at night rubbing her hands together thinking how easy you are to get one over on and how much longer she can do this for before you grow a pair and force her to act like the adult that she is.

And FFS you live in the same house yet are emailing her because she feels more comfortable with that - go in and speak to her - you really need to start behaving like grown ups - THE PAIR OF YOU!

IvanaDvinkYourBlad · 25/10/2012 12:17

Wow.
What a selfish, self-entitled, immature little brat.

Sorry, that is no help at all.
Honestly, who the hell died and made her queen?! All her subjects must pay her way, do her will and never say a bad word against her wtf ?!

I have never, and will never, bought into the whole tv-soap favourite of "but they're family" (said in Mitchell brother-esqe tones).

No. If someone is treating you like shit then their behaviour speaks for themselves. Would you let a partner, friend, stranger on the street behave towards you in this way? To bleed you dry, not contribute to communal living, pull their weight, pile on the emotional blackmail etc etc? You do right to try to help her to help herself but the old 'horse to water' springs to mind. (fwiw the ASD indicators stood out to me, too, but that could only ever be an explanation not excuse. It could help to tailor her uni support and general life skills if it was applicable, though - visual time table, chore list, simple spreadsheet of aims and plans etc).

You seem to be making slow progress but I can only see more debt, naval-gazing and guilt tripping. (The fact she is not working more hours, still playing your parents like a fiddle and has the gall to suggest a trip to the US!) As a side note, if your brother and fiance are still chipping in with their words of wisdom, why don't they take her back?

Good luck with it all.Your sister doesn't know how blessed she is to still have you on side.

Lancelottie · 25/10/2012 12:52
Mayisout · 25/10/2012 14:33

In my opinion what would probably happen if she was turfed out is that she would get in tow with some bloke. And it's unlikely that some bloke would be a likeable student scintillated by her winning ways, more likely some sad drop out dossing god knows where.

Chucking her out probably would, in the end, produce a capable sensible adult but there is the risk that that would be after months/years of pathetic behaviour/ possibly drugs/ possibly pregnancy etc.

I would insist she moves into student accomm, maybe she will like being with other young people and be shamed into behaving normally. She has 7 weeks to find this out.

Then, either she is reforming and stays longer (at uni accomm) or she is on a plane home, in the latter case it is then up to her and her parents. No amount of 'help and advice' from other family will make much difference imo. The chances are she will come to her senses in a few years time and want a life, not an existence, until then the parents will reap what they sow ie either stand up to her and force change or let her bleed them dry.

AgathaFusty · 26/10/2012 07:53

Perhaps as an experiment, you parents could offer to fund the remaining 7 weeks in uni halls for her. It is a finite amount of time and money, then she returns home. She will be with other people her own age - she will either sink or swim, but either way you will know in 7 weeks. If she can't (or won't, depending on why she is like this) cope with it, then you will all know that there is no point whatsoever in her returning to uni after Christmas. Then it will be time for her to return to the UK and get a job.

NotQuintAtAllOhNo · 26/10/2012 08:29

Goood idea from Agatha fusty

happygoluckyinOz · 19/07/2013 02:20

You all helped so much when this situation was driving me nuts, so I thought I?d let you know where we all are 10 months later!

After many, many discussions and going backwards and forwards with the decision, I convinced my sister to move back to England. She wasn?t happy and she didn?t want to be here ? I finally got her to admit this. So her return flight was cancelled, her accommodation that had been arranged for the New Year on campus cancelled and she packed up all her things and flew back in December. We followed a week later and took as much of her things as we could carry (4 suitcases!).

She moved back in with my parents and got herself a full-time job in the local town that she absolutely loves. She?s paying rent to our parents and contributing generally ? there have been no massive flare ups or rows and she?s been accepted at university in England to start in September doing something that she is very passionate about and loves. She?s saved up her money and is actually in America as I type ? she?s gone on her own for 6 weeks and is travelling around meeting all these people that she talks to online. Mum said she?s totally changed and come out of her shell since coming back and really feels like she has some direction.

So all in all, we got there, she?s happy, were happy ? just not in the same country! Smile

OP posts:
BBQWidow · 19/07/2013 02:45

Great update!

CrystalDeCanter · 19/07/2013 04:12

Phew - good for her. Finally, she's grown up a bit.

Well done OP.

happygoluckyinOz · 19/07/2013 04:22

Forgot to add - DH has a new job, starts on Monday in fact! We also bought a house in February and we are talking about trying for a baby in December, so hopefully all that experience with a tantruming adult-child will put me in good stead! Wink

OP posts:
JaceyBee · 19/07/2013 09:08

I remember this thread well, so glad it worked out so well for you all x

Phineyj · 19/07/2013 09:52

You are a great sister

3dolls · 19/07/2013 10:01

Lovely update, i've thought about you from time to time. You've been a great big sister and you should be proud that her leap forward is due in no small part to you!

tallwivglasses · 19/07/2013 10:25

Chuffed for you all!