What to do about my Sister?

[happygoluckyinOz]

As the title suggests, I don't know what to do about my sister.

Background is this:

There are three siblings: me (29) my brother (27) and my sister (20). I left home at 19 to go to University and I never moved back, went straight to London afterwards to start work. I've never really had a close relationship with my sister as I left home when she was 9. My brother left school and did an apprentiship as a mechanic and has been doing that ever since. He gave my parents a lot of grief from the age of about 16 and treated them like utter crap until a few years ago. They bailed him out numerous times (driving without insurance, without MOT etc) and he has owed them money for years with no real drive to pay them back (despite earning double their combined income now). He moved out at around 18/19 as well as my parents couldn't take living with him anymore - my father was on the verge of a heart attack every time they had a screaming match he was so angry. He moved back a couple of times down the years until he moved out to Australia 3 years ago.

I also moved out to Australia last year and since both me and my brother now live here my parents also want to move and have put in a visa application to come (a long held dream to move here even before we moved out).

So to my sister - she's always been a bit of the 'odd one out' really. As there was quite a gap in ages between us she's been like an only child since my brother and I moved out. My parents, I think, have pandered to her, she's done whatever she likes whenever she likes. Because if she didn't get her own way her fiery temper would unleash - my mums a sensitive soul, any little thing sets her off so she'd just back off and leave her alone.

This, I think, has got us into the current situation.

She finished her A'levels at school last year and had not applied to go to University as she didn't know if she wanted to. She finished school and would spend her whole day in bed because she had spent the whole night on the internet and on the xbox. She had a part-time job cleaning at her old school, but it was only 15 hours a week. This went on for 6 months with my parents having constant battles with her over what she was going to do with her life - to which she didn't know and would refuse to talk to them about it, she'd just shut herself in her room. She decided to apply for university, but didn't get on the course she wanted (she only wanted to do one course at one university - wouldn't apply anywhere else or for anything else).

So my parents, feeling guilty that they wanted to move to Australia decided that the best thing to do would be to enrol her in University in Australia and she'd come out and live with us. Now as she's not a resident or citizen this means she's an international student and has to pay international student fees - currently $10,000 per semester ($20,000 per year / £12,700). Now my parents are not wealthy by any stretch and have spent most of their life struggling from one credit card to the next. These fees have to be paid up front - there is no student loan for international students. My sister thought this was a great idea, she'd come to university in Oz and 'start again' - get away from the Computer and its hold on her and start afresh. The proviso was that my parents would pay the first semester and then she would get a job to pay the next semester's fees (she is allowed to work 20 hours a week and could easily have saved up).

My brother and I agreed that she could stay with us and initially she went to stay with my brother (as he has a 5 bed house and we have a 2 bed flat). My brother works away for 2 weeks at a time and comes home for a week - so she was with his fiancé most of the time. This seemed to work for a while as she was company for her. But this came to a head 3 weeks ago when his fiancé basically kicked her out due to arguments over cleaning the house. She just wouldn't do it - she'd clean up after herself but was doing nothing else to contribute to the house (they paid for everything, including her food) so his fiancé got fed up and said she should come and live with me and my husband.

So she's now with us. But I'm worried about her. She has gone back (or never really stopped) to being on the computer all night and spending all her time in bed in her room. Over this weekend she has probably spent around 1 hour outside of her room since Friday evening and it's now Monday morning. She comes out for dinner (because I make it for her) and then goes straight back in again. She goes to sleep at around 4am and doesn't get up until 2pm, and then still stays in bed on her Computer, maybe getting up and having a shower at 6pm. She has not joined any groups at university, she's missing lectures and classes because she can't get out of bed to go to them in a morning. She doesn't meet anyone after class, doesn't go anywhere on a weekend. She doesn't eat anything other than dinner in an evening - and that's only because I've made it for her. She's as white as a sheet because she doesn't go outside!

She hasn't got a job since she?s been here because 'she wasn't ready yet' and refused to talk about it with me. She won?t talk to my husband and seems painfully shy and awkward around him, which is making for an awkward living situation for us (when she comes out of her room that is).

So, I just don't know what to do for the best here. My parents are talking about putting her next semester fees on their credit card (due in Feb) but I'm just not sure the answer is to keep throwing money at her and paying for everything. We're all going home at Christmas because my brother is getting married in England, and I'm thinking it would just be better if she didn't come back and tried to make a life in England rather than my parents keep spending money on her out here. But then I think the problems would just remain there too.

This is all stressful for us because obviously having a third adult in the house is costing us money - especially since she's on the internet all the time (we had a limit of 8GB a month for broadband, it's only the 15th and it's all gone) and she's using so much electricity in her room it's heated up by it all! My husband isn't working because he was laid off in August, so it's just me earning and I feel like I didn't sign up to pay for my sister with her contributing nothing and not making a go of a life here for herself. I feel like it would be all worth it if I could see a change in her, and she was going out and having a good time - gaining some self-confidence, but she's not.

I know if I go back to my mum with this she's going to be devastated and equally I'm not sure how to talk to my sister as everything I say she gets defensive and shuts down.

I'm really sorry for the essay, I just don't know where to turn!

I don't think it's fair of your parents to have passed the parenting over to you, let's face it at 20 she's behaving like a moody pre teen and your parents realising this have mentally disengaged from it all as they feel their part should be over. The fact you feel you don't want to worry them isn't fair, it's not your responsibility!
All you have asked your sister to do is take some responsibility for herself ,she should at least be paying for her food and board .i don't see how this can work long term , she seems very troubled indeed.

She may as well be at Uni in the uk, it will be a lot damn cheaper and what a waste being in oz and spending it all in her room.

so she through a tantrum because you took away the internet? Then drove to your brothers, when that didnt work, she called your parents in UK, in middle of the night to shout and scream and try to get her own way?!

What did she expect her parents to do? Magic some internet for her?

This behaviour is extreme and I think your suggestion of finishing semester then going back to UK is ok... however if your parents are not strong then she wont get any help at all. they will cave in to her baby behaviour.
She is probably better off with you and your husband for now. You need to speak to her, tell her this behaviour is not on and she needs to sort herself out, otherwise she may as well go back to Britain.

Well the manipulative, tantrum-throwing behaviour is typical of addicts when they're being thwarted. They lash out and try to manipulate those around them to give them what they want (money, access to whatever their 'drug' is). Of course, we don't know if she's an addict or not, but the behaviour fits. As does the driving around looking for the 'drug' when it's not immediately available.

I agree that your parents don't sound best placed to help her - they've done nothing to help her in the past and 50shades is probably right - that they had hoped her problems would no longer be their problems by now. If she does return to the UK you could perhaps provide telephone support and advice to them. You can find out all kinds of stuff about the support available via the internet and they might need to be pointed in the right direction.

I think I'd be calling the student counselling service if it was me. You need advice and help today - not next week.

She needs to go back to the uk. When she goes back for Xmas there is zero point bringing her back with you.

1. she doesn't have the money to continue her course, rendering her stay in oz expensive and pointless
2. she will not get it together to earn the money
3. your parents won't have access to funds to pay for her to complete her degree so any more borrowing is just throwing good money after bad
4. she has significant psychological/mental health issues which are preventing her from doing what needs to be done, which you are not equipped to help her with
5. she doesn't even want to be in oz so this is all a colossal waste of money

The situation is insane!

How's it going this week Happy?

Ah Toomany......Sorry, this may turn into the mother of all rants....

Friday night she spent at my brothers house with his fiance, we loved having the house to ourselves, had a lovely romantic evening with my DH - was so nice.

Saturday, DH and I went out for the day on a whale watching tour - was loads of fun. We came home to Sis in her room on the Computer, not very communcative as usual. She came out for her dinner - at which point I told her we are not cooking for her anymore (as she'd complained that we eat a lot of Asian and Indian food and she doesn't like it) to which she said 'fine but I'll eat like a student then' - well you are a student, so eat like one.

10.30pm came around and she came into the living room so we told her the internet was going off in 30 minutes. She proceeded to rant and rave telling us how it was a Saturday night and she didn't have anything to get up for so she should be able to have it on later. How we had 'no right' to turn it off or dictate to her when she goes online, how I'm not her mother so can't tell her what to do, how she was going to call mum and get her to get me to turn it back on I said that would be impressive from the UK. DH took over the argument as she was really upsetting - he wouldn't give in so she STAMPED HER FOOT (I mean...really?!) and then hurled a box of (our) books that she was stood next to on the floor sending them flying across the living room (since moving to Oz we haven't bought a bookcase yet so there are 8 boxes of books stacked in the hallway). She then stomped to her room and slammed the door.

I was in shock. DH wanted to drag her back out and make her clear it up, I just wanted it to be over. So I cleared up the mess and we went to bed. Caught her 10 minutes later halfway out the door - she said she was going to stay at my brothers, and off she went.

Had a phone call with my parents, they said they supported us and her behaviour was unacceptable. I told them she could stay until the end of the semester but then she could not live with us. We wont put up with it. We then went to bed.

Sunday - we didn't hear anything from anyone until after lunch, at which point I spoke to mum (who was in tears at the situation) who said she didn't know what to do and she was so worried about it all. I said she needed to come back and appologise and then we'd just get through the next 7 weeks. We then started getting messages from the fiance saying she'd spent the last 4 hours chatting things through with her and come up with a list of positives and negatives in her life and what she was going to do to make things better. She wanted us to go and meet them to go through it. By now DH and I are feeling pretty hacked off, so we said no, if she wanted to talk to us then she had to come back home and talk.

We went backwards and forwards with the fiance saying that we really needed to go and meet them as she had no petrol. Well, neither did we, so we weren't moving. Was getting messages from mum and brother saying how we had to 'listen' to what she had to say.

Got a text to say she'd be back for 7. Got a message at 7 to say it would be 8. Got a message at 8 to say she'd just left and would be 30 minutes. Apparently she'd been shopping and at the cinema with the fiance all afternoon . By this time - having had all day to stew on it - DH and I were pretty angry at her. We went out for a walk to calm down before she came back in - got a call from Dad whilst we were out because Mum was in a hysterical state at all the problems and how I was the oldest/most responsible and have to fix it.

So anyway, we went home, she was there. She appologised for losing her temper and we accepted her applogy. We said we weren't happy that she'd spent all day avoiding us and hadn't faced up to her actions earlier - I'd spent all day on tenterhooks and I don't think my pulse rate slowed for a minute! She told us that we needed to 'compromise' and let her have the internet overnight on a Friday & Saturday night. DH explained that a compromise means she needs to give us something in return otherwise we are just letting her have her own way. She didn't have an answer for this and said she had nothing to give us - DH suggested helping out around the flat, spending time outside her room, taking up a hobby, spending more time with us. We just got a stony silence with her staring at the floor, before she said she'd written all her thoughts down and would send them to us - she then walked off and went to bed.

We read the email, which reads like a self indulgent how the world has wronged me speech. The whole family seems taken in by it and is viewing it as some magical breakthrough - whereas really if you break it down it just says 'leave me alone' and treat me like an adult (despite her not acting like one). Apparently we all need to stop talking about money and being negative and be more positive. And she wants to spend 15 minutes per day becoming 'closer' to me.

So this morning, she comes out of her room and DH attempts conversation with her - if she could have answered with one word she would have done, it was the most awkward one sided conversation and was painful to be in the same room. She did not want to talk to him at all, and he was just trying to do what she wanted in her email (take an interest in what she's doing). I told Mum this (everyone is messaging me today to find out how last night went) and she continues to make excuses for her behaviour - Oh she's just like you're brother, he's grumpy in a morning when he's tired.

She asked me about spending time with her which I tactfully avoided answering (we aren't close, that is clear, forcing a closeness by making me spend time with her is not going to help). I'm now also getting texts from my brother asking me if I'm going out with her this evening for some 'sisterly' time together. It's like everyone miraculously thinks that by me spending time with her that all her problems are over. Once again they are looking at me to 'fix' the situation.

DH is one awkward conversation/temper tantrum away from kicking her out now rather than waiting 7 weeks. If this was the other way around and it was his brother, I'd feel exactly the same.

Sorry for the essay ladies, I'm just so frustrated by my family today

Well, it looks like all this pandering to her your family does has a big part in all this. She doesn't seem to be taking any responsibility in anything does she? And it sounds like what she really wants is to be allowed to stay up all night on the internet and she's trying all the manipulative tricks she knows to be able to get what she wants.

I would suggest she gets a job and finds somewhere else to live where she can choose to live exactly how she pleases while paying her own way. And ignore all the hysteria displayed by your parents. I don't see why she should be your responsibility if she won't live by your rules.

Good grief, I cannot believe you still have her under your roof, you have the patience of a saint!

Honestly? The best thing for your sister is to be kicked out and to have to support herself. To find a job, a flat, and set up a life of her own. Then, and only then, can she begin to appreciate how the world works.

But I doubt your family will do this though as it would mean relinquishing your specific roles in the drama.

Until you gather the strength to kick her out, please turn off your IM/phone etc to your parents and refuse to let your sister's awful behaviour continue to take over your life.

She is highly manipulative but equally, you and your family needs to refuse to be manipulated.

I agree with posters who suggest she has an addiction and is likely to need professional help to tackle this. Possibly being kicked out of her accommodation may spur her into taking the neccessary steps.

Keep it simple. This is my home and you are welcome so long as you behave

Sorry if this has been said already but can you contact a student welfare person at her university, explain about the internet thing and ask for professional help?

I've tried - not had any reply. I called the counseling centre at the Uni - they said she had to come in herself.

That's something else on her list - I'm never ever again to mention she might have a problem with the Internet or anything else or to suggest counseling or going to the doctors. Apparently that is mean and hurtful

Your family need to accept " your house, your rules" your sister is making me angry what a self absorbed girl she is.
I'd tell your parents and brother it's not working out and she can either abide by your house rules and start contributing or move out.dobt be made to feel guilty, your brother is trying so hard to get you to sort it out as he doesn't want to have to take her back again

When do you get to throw a tantrum and be surrounded by drama and attention? This behaviour has obviously served her so far and it seems your mother is also resorting to it. How easy for everyone to decide that more sister time will fix the problem.
Poor you - I really feel for you. Stop talking about money means that no-one must remind her of her adult responsibilities and how much this escapade is costing you, your DH and your parents.

The counselling centre is right, of course, your sister has to tackle her problems by herself. Just as there would be no point in you making an appointment for her at a drug dependency agency if she had a drug addiction.

But what you can do is look after yourself by clarifying your boundaries i.e. meal times, housework, costs and generally what is expected around the home. Try to frame it in terms of "if you'd like to stay here you are welcome to do so if you can manage our house rules" rather than direct behaviour guidance. Anything more is wasted energy. She is essentially a very spoilt child and so long as her behaviour is rewarded, she will keep it up as she has not yet learnt to behave as an independent, responsible or considerate person.

Agree with others - you're way past compromise.

These are your house rules, including no internet after 11pm. If she wishes to pay for her own internet access after that time, then that's up to her.

What does she get in return as your part of the 'compromise'? Err how about rent-free accommodation with all bills paid and food provided?

Tell your brother to keep his nose out, unless they want her back with them that is. They've had their chance to input ideas.

You have the patience of a saint. I can't believe how the family are letting her get away with appalling selfish behaviour.

With rights of course come responsibilities- at the moment she wants all the rights but is doing nothing in return. Her responsibilities are to be pulling her weight at the house, attending lectures, getting more hours of work and making the most of the uni experience. She isn't doing any of this.

Perhaps it would be worth videoing a conversation she has with DH and then showing it back to her. See if it shocks her to see her behaviour as others see it.

Kick her out.Shes old enough to get a job and stand on her own 2 feet. Stop making excuses for her
The longer you make excuses the longer she will behave like this
Focus on you and your husband .
She is not a child even though she is acting like one

She's manipulative.

Your family are enabling her.

She isn't your child. You are not responsible for her, no matter what anyone else says.

Your DH is a complete star. Understanding and supportive in the most difficult of circumstances.

Don't let the rest of the family emotionally blackmail you.

How about some form of family mediation that you, DH and brother could attend with her? She may well be willing to go as she will think that she will be proved right.

Worth a session or two perhaps?

Blimey, what a nightmare. However hard it is I think you need to put your foot down and get her out of your house. She will rant and rave, and no doubt your parents will be on to you, but for your sanity and your marriage she has to go before she causes serious damage to you and your DH.

You are being taken advantage of by both your sister and your parents and I really think you have to put a stop to it sooner rather than later. It seems to me that your good nature and generous heart have led to them assuming that you will put up with whatever, forever and I can't see them doing anything to change that. How does your brother see the situation now? Is he in agreement with you or is he with your sister and mum and dad?

Your parents may be a world away but they can make a start by telling your sister to take responsibility for herself - although that doesn't sound likely. Help her find somewhere else by all means, but don't put up with anymore, it's gone beyond something you can sort. If she doesn't want help, or see that she needs it then there's nothing on that front you can do.

She sounds like an addict who has codependents supporting her habit and it will never change. Apparently alcoholics only stop drinking when they are at rock bottom ie starving on the street.

I would speak to your doctor about it and don't hide any of the issues.

"Supporting' her as your family want you to do is just prolonging the agony in mo. Who would pay for long term counselling and care if she was in Australia? You or her parents I suspect as she isn't a resident. Because of that get her home as soon as and hope that someone there starts organising treatment. There must be somewhere that treats internet addiction. I would try to find them immediately and take advice from them.

"mental health is defined as a state of well being in which every individual can cope with normal stresses of everyday life, can work productively and fruitfully and is able to make a contribution to his/her community"
WHO definition of mental well being.
Since your sister is unable to fufil that criteria then she is mentally unwell and help from mental health professionals needs to be sought. This will not get resolved unless that is done.

To be honest, your whole family situation seems a bit dysfunctional to me. Your parents appear to be either unwilling or unable to parent your DS and it seems like you're being set up to be some kind of surrogate mother to her. I think that unless you actually want that role then you need to make it loud and clear that you're not willing to take that responsibility, otherwise that's increasingly what the family will expect of you.

I also think it must be evident by now that, short of a miracle, your DS is not going to come up with next semester's tuition. So what will happen then? Are there any contingency plans in place?

your sister reminds me of me...a few years ago now. I'm 9 years younger than my nearest sibling and grew up pretty much on my own. I was also a foot-stamper, toys out the pram type. expected everyone to wait on me hand and foot. it actually didn't occur to me how much people were bending over backwards trying to keep me happy and ease the way for me.

all I can say is the sooner you kick her out the happier you ALL will be, including her (maybe not in the short term ). part of life is about struggle and learning how to resource ourselves. I'd tell her (as my BIL told me 13 years ago) that she has to get a job and contribute to the running of the house, or leave.

What an absolute star you are. I would have lost patience a long time ago.
How about emailing (as it seems to be her preferred method of communication) a letter, cc'd to your parents and brother. Outlining your expectations at her being your house guest. A list of house rules, timeline for these to happen and a consequence if thar don't happen.
Then leave it. If she doesn't comply then the consequence has to be followed through.
She is completely unreasonable, selfish, rude and dramatic. This has got her through life up to this point; reducing your mother to tears etc (although I suspect your mum has the same dramatic tendencies and is manipulating you in the same way your sis does to them-learned behaviour??)
She needs a short, sharp wake up call. 20 years old, she's had a bloody cushy life until now. Time for a wake up call!!! fuming on your behalf