What to do about my Sister?

[happygoluckyinOz]

As the title suggests, I don't know what to do about my sister.

Background is this:

There are three siblings: me (29) my brother (27) and my sister (20). I left home at 19 to go to University and I never moved back, went straight to London afterwards to start work. I've never really had a close relationship with my sister as I left home when she was 9. My brother left school and did an apprentiship as a mechanic and has been doing that ever since. He gave my parents a lot of grief from the age of about 16 and treated them like utter crap until a few years ago. They bailed him out numerous times (driving without insurance, without MOT etc) and he has owed them money for years with no real drive to pay them back (despite earning double their combined income now). He moved out at around 18/19 as well as my parents couldn't take living with him anymore - my father was on the verge of a heart attack every time they had a screaming match he was so angry. He moved back a couple of times down the years until he moved out to Australia 3 years ago.

I also moved out to Australia last year and since both me and my brother now live here my parents also want to move and have put in a visa application to come (a long held dream to move here even before we moved out).

So to my sister - she's always been a bit of the 'odd one out' really. As there was quite a gap in ages between us she's been like an only child since my brother and I moved out. My parents, I think, have pandered to her, she's done whatever she likes whenever she likes. Because if she didn't get her own way her fiery temper would unleash - my mums a sensitive soul, any little thing sets her off so she'd just back off and leave her alone.

This, I think, has got us into the current situation.

She finished her A'levels at school last year and had not applied to go to University as she didn't know if she wanted to. She finished school and would spend her whole day in bed because she had spent the whole night on the internet and on the xbox. She had a part-time job cleaning at her old school, but it was only 15 hours a week. This went on for 6 months with my parents having constant battles with her over what she was going to do with her life - to which she didn't know and would refuse to talk to them about it, she'd just shut herself in her room. She decided to apply for university, but didn't get on the course she wanted (she only wanted to do one course at one university - wouldn't apply anywhere else or for anything else).

So my parents, feeling guilty that they wanted to move to Australia decided that the best thing to do would be to enrol her in University in Australia and she'd come out and live with us. Now as she's not a resident or citizen this means she's an international student and has to pay international student fees - currently $10,000 per semester ($20,000 per year / £12,700). Now my parents are not wealthy by any stretch and have spent most of their life struggling from one credit card to the next. These fees have to be paid up front - there is no student loan for international students. My sister thought this was a great idea, she'd come to university in Oz and 'start again' - get away from the Computer and its hold on her and start afresh. The proviso was that my parents would pay the first semester and then she would get a job to pay the next semester's fees (she is allowed to work 20 hours a week and could easily have saved up).

My brother and I agreed that she could stay with us and initially she went to stay with my brother (as he has a 5 bed house and we have a 2 bed flat). My brother works away for 2 weeks at a time and comes home for a week - so she was with his fiancé most of the time. This seemed to work for a while as she was company for her. But this came to a head 3 weeks ago when his fiancé basically kicked her out due to arguments over cleaning the house. She just wouldn't do it - she'd clean up after herself but was doing nothing else to contribute to the house (they paid for everything, including her food) so his fiancé got fed up and said she should come and live with me and my husband.

So she's now with us. But I'm worried about her. She has gone back (or never really stopped) to being on the computer all night and spending all her time in bed in her room. Over this weekend she has probably spent around 1 hour outside of her room since Friday evening and it's now Monday morning. She comes out for dinner (because I make it for her) and then goes straight back in again. She goes to sleep at around 4am and doesn't get up until 2pm, and then still stays in bed on her Computer, maybe getting up and having a shower at 6pm. She has not joined any groups at university, she's missing lectures and classes because she can't get out of bed to go to them in a morning. She doesn't meet anyone after class, doesn't go anywhere on a weekend. She doesn't eat anything other than dinner in an evening - and that's only because I've made it for her. She's as white as a sheet because she doesn't go outside!

She hasn't got a job since she?s been here because 'she wasn't ready yet' and refused to talk about it with me. She won?t talk to my husband and seems painfully shy and awkward around him, which is making for an awkward living situation for us (when she comes out of her room that is).

So, I just don't know what to do for the best here. My parents are talking about putting her next semester fees on their credit card (due in Feb) but I'm just not sure the answer is to keep throwing money at her and paying for everything. We're all going home at Christmas because my brother is getting married in England, and I'm thinking it would just be better if she didn't come back and tried to make a life in England rather than my parents keep spending money on her out here. But then I think the problems would just remain there too.

This is all stressful for us because obviously having a third adult in the house is costing us money - especially since she's on the internet all the time (we had a limit of 8GB a month for broadband, it's only the 15th and it's all gone) and she's using so much electricity in her room it's heated up by it all! My husband isn't working because he was laid off in August, so it's just me earning and I feel like I didn't sign up to pay for my sister with her contributing nothing and not making a go of a life here for herself. I feel like it would be all worth it if I could see a change in her, and she was going out and having a good time - gaining some self-confidence, but she's not.

I know if I go back to my mum with this she's going to be devastated and equally I'm not sure how to talk to my sister as everything I say she gets defensive and shuts down.

I'm really sorry for the essay, I just don't know where to turn!

Things are definitely looking up today!

You sound like a fantastic sister! Good on you for not giving up on her; I'm sure with your help you will be able to get to her to have a life outside of the bedroom/computer.

Good luck x

You are amazing: incredibly kind, thoughtful, and patient. I can't imagine how great it would be to have such a caring sister!

It sounds like really good news, please pass on MN to your brother's fiancé, and here are some for you .

It sounds like really good news, please pass on MN to your brother's fiancé, and here are some for you .

happy you are an amazing sister.
It's the hardest thing to tell people you love what they don't want to hear, but you really are doing the kindest thing for her. Keep it up.

You are an amazing sister. For a 20 year old her behaviour is like a sulky pre teen. Obviously used to getting her own way and having a tantrum is what worked in your parents' household.

Keep on trying with her, she may turn herself around with some positive, but firm boundaries.

Good news so far, hope it continues to improve!

Gosh, the complaint about paying for internet via her I-Phone was telling, wasn't it?
This is a crucial time for your sister-if she doesn't learn how to venture outside her comfort zone now, she never will.

That said, she is still having all this stuff (job, volunteering etc) done for her by family rather than deciding and doing for herself. That's not a criticism, but an observation she is just accepting a different kind of dependence. I suppose at some point, she'll have to be left completely to her own devices to see if she can sustain all of this and make choices for herself.

You do sound like a really nice sister though.

It sounds like you're making some headway - i'm glad

As she is on a student visa, is her actually attending Uni not a condition of her stay?

I.e, if she doesn't attend Uni, her visa isn't valid. So theoretically, she can be kicked out of here & be sent back to the UK.

Re the internet. I would not be paying extra for more gigs. 8 is a massive amount. I have 3gigs. And as a family of 4 using the pc, we rarely use it all. My answer to that would be, she gets pre paid on a stick & you disconnect her from the home network (honestly, by buying more gigs you are playing into her game & nor really giving her an incentive to stop her sponging behaviour). If you are wifi, change the password so she cannot access it.

It is time someone got hard on her lazy arse, you all need to stop playing her game. Your SIL did it, now you do it & show her how hard it is to actually pay for a home.

Cancel the new internet package, because really....how is unlimited internet going to help her quit the internet & get a job? Do what I said above & lock her out the network!

She talked a lot about being in her 'comfort zone' and said she didn't like to do anything outside of it. She has a total fear of the unknown and will not force herself into doing anything that she doesn't know

Tell her how massive coming to Oz was in the first place. If she can do that, she can do anything!

TBH, I'm not surprised your sister is happy to piss her life away in her bedroom because no one requires her to do anything else. Your parents allowed her to do it, your brother allowed her to do it, and now you're doing the same. I'm not having a go at you OP, but your entire family is facilitating your sister's lackadaisical approach to life and responsibility. She's completely taking the piss! She knows she's supposed to get a job, but if you ever expect her to actually go out and get one you're going to have to lay it on the line and give her consequences that will arise from her not doing so.

At the moment someone else is paying her uni fees, has given her a car with a GPS, gives her pocket money, free internet access, meals she doesn't have to cook, a roof over her head, heating and light - why the hell would she want to get a job? She doesn't need to! You're all bending over backwards to GIVE her everything, so she has no incentive to EARN it. You need to toughen up or you're have a listless 20-something in your spare room forever, eating your food, driving your car and using all your internet. The choice is yours, but you aren't doing her or yourselves any favours at the moment.

P.S. She can use the frigging internet at her university library - I wouldn't be giving her ANY access at home. If she wants to buy herself a dongle, let her, but stop paying for everything!

It's difficult to tell how much is her being 'spoilt and entitled' and how much may be down to a problem such as social anxiety disorder or social phobia.

Sounds like you're on the right track but I think she should be organising jobs/activities/voluntary work etc herself otherwise you're still babying her. Good luck!

Choochoo it may be that the OP's sister does indeed have a social anxiety disorder, but as another very coherent poster put it, all this enabling isn't helping fix the social anxiety disorder at all, if anything it allows her to stay in her comfort zone and not overcome it. Social anxiety is treatable, often simply by people getting older and having to go into social situations like work, or by psychological treatment, even medication. None of this is on the agenda of the OP's sister.

Also, even socially shy awkward people go to uni and do classes, usually in maths and engineering! They often live in halls, buy their own food, hang out with other similar people and so on.

The problem is, and I've seen this a lot with my own generation, is that she is basically like a small child, has everything provided for her. I know lots and lots of people of my generation whose parents still do their washing, in their thirties! It is then a vicious circle, often these people stay dependent, start to suffer from anxiety/depression and so on, but mysteriously never either seek treatment or work in normal jobs. I've heard the 'I don't want a boring mundane job, I want an interesting/well paid career' from many people who would rather sit on benefits than work in Tescos. This is because they are enabled to do this, by parents who give them extra money, a roof over their heads and so on. I am not talking about people with really difficult mental health problems or some major reason why they can't work, I'm talking about people who have been enabled to drift and do nothing in life and it's actually a tragedy when I look back and think of the potential they showed in their early twenties.

Anyway, OP, I would set up as you are doing, some really strict boundaries about living in your house. Even that alone is pretty kind. I would also suggest some options ONCE (e.g. clubs for her to attend, how to get treatment in the student centre) and then leave it. If you do everything for her, drive her to the club, ask her if she liked the club, encourage her to go next time, again it's infantilizing. It's also never her idea and she needs to get used to setting her own goals and working out how she can achieve them.

I would set a basic minimum of standards you can accept: no rudeness, bills paid at an agreed amount, no internet use after 11, and a family meal once a week or whatever you agree on with your husband. Everything else is up to her, she has to get an alarm clock, get up, go to work/lectures and set up a social life.

I know plenty of shy people who may or may not have Aspergers who are still civil, have reponsible jobs, have a circle of friends (few, but still some) and enjoy many activities and hobbies. Enabling her to become a recluse won't help her at all. If anything, your niceness and basic decency is being used somewhat here and you might have to toughen up, join forces with your husband on this one.

Choochoo- I see you said the same thing, only much quicker! Sorry about that.

I think the first condition I would set would be that as long as she lives under my roof she attends ALL her classes. She's like a vampire sleeping all day, all up night and bleeding you dry.

You sound like a really caring and supportive sister.

I do really appreciate all the feedback. I guess I've never been put in this role of 'parent' before and I'm finding it hard to do the tough love thing, which is probably how she got into this situation in the first place.

different if she wasn't going to Uni at all then she'd be in breach I'm sure, but she is attending most of her lectures and classes and the ones she does miss she goes in later and downloads them and catches up. She's attending all her tests and exams and doing her assignments. When I was at uni I didn't attend ever lecture going and I didn't have anyone breathing down my neck to go - so I haven't lectured her about missing things because as far as I can tell she is making the effort to catch up and study what she missed.

So anyway - I did have a conversation with my mum, told her what I'd said and what we were doing. She totally agreed with me and thanked me for being strong with her (she said she never could be, my sister always just makes her cry and upsets her) and they totally supported me. She also said my Dad is looking at redundancy and her hours have been cut so they are struggling to make ends meet.....I mean I just feel even more frustrated by the situation and hate piling on more worry.

Yesterday I thought we were making progress. I came home from work and she was chatty, seemed happy. DH told me that she'd come and offered to help him cook dinner, so had chopped and prepared all the vegetables and even chatted to him whilst doing it. I asked her about the volunteering stuff again and she promised she'd look at it on Thursday and then start applying.

She sat out of her room with us for a little bit watching TV, but did go in her room to play on her Xbox later on.

Come bedtime I turned off the router and took it into our bedroom, she complained about it, said again that she didn't like being limited. I told her it was for her own good and went to bed - leaving her in the living room watching TV.

I wake up this morning to a text from my mum saying they are really worried about my sister. Apparently (unbeknownst to us) she'd left the flat in the middle of the night and driven all around Perth in what I assume was a search for internet. She'd driven up to my brothers house which is 50km away and then driven down to University and then called my parents in tears at 4am stood outside her university, in the cold, with no jacket, telling them how lonely and unhappy she was. Mum said that Dad wanted to tell her some 'home truths' but they daren't as she was in such a state. I'm yet to speak to them as it's the middle of the night in the UK now, so I'm really not sure what to think.

She was back in bed by the time I got up this morning at 7am, and had she not called my parents we'd never of known she'd even been anywhere.

DH thinks this is clearly a case of internet addiction, she's like a druggie driving around during the night trying to get her fix. We do not feel like we are equipped to deal with this at all. I haven't heard back anything from Student Support at the University.

I'm going to speak to mum at lunch time and hopefully get some more info. But my initial reaction is that she needs to finish this semester (over in a month) and then go back to England and seek help. She should defer her place here for a year and if she gets better she can come back and start again in Feb 2014 (when my parents will be here too).

Wow, that is pretty extreme behaviour, isn't it! I don't know what to suggest.

Hi there Happy, I've been following your thread but haven't replied so far. The description of your sister reminds me of a couple of people that I know, only she's not as extreme as they are.

What sticks out about your initial posts is the way you have described her as a loner - she hides from your hubby even though you all live together, and she seems to spend a lot of time on her own. I was wondering whether she might have some sort of social anxiety thing going on? It seems to fit, in that she seems to retreat into her own world, but venturing out when she has to. In more extreme cases, the person is unable to attend uni/work or other things which involve group of people.

Also when you've suggested some proactive measures to get her out of the house more, she seems rather fearful of the opportunities presented to her. This isn't normal for someone in their early 20's - most young people tend to jump into new experiences, eager to try out their new adulthood.

It may be a good idea to postpone her education and get this sorted out. A visit to a GP who can point you in the right direction might be a good place to start.

Hope this helps (waves from Sydney )

Oops, seems I've repeated what's said above as well!

You're right - she needs help and you're not equipped to deal with it. Nor should you feel responsible for her - she's not your child.

I agree that she should return to the UK to seek help. It doesn't sound like she's getting much out of being in Australia anyway, apart from the uni course that she attends sporadically and then catches up with on her own, in her room rather than going and joining real, live people, like a normal 20-year-old would want to do.

No one without an addiction would drive around all night () looking for internet access. But your earlier descriptions of her behaviour sounded weird too.