Narcissist?

[BabylonPI]

Is there a straightforward definition please?
Is there a list of narcissistic tendencies or traits

I hear the term a lot these days and a lot on here, but I don't know what it is/means.

Thank you.

Can I ask a delicate question garlicnutty.
Do you think that is all your mother has to offer,gestures.
And in that case,she is doing her best?

it sometimes occurs to me that i may as well have been raised by wolves or something.

if i gave the impression earlier that i'm all perfectly sorted and fine then i apologise - i am endlessly discovering more and more fucked up corners of myself that are a result of growing up in a nuthouse and i do quite often feel a bit gobsmacked by the thought of what it would be like to have been raised by someone who loved you and wanted what was best for you

You are not coming across as weird on here,if that helps

It's a lovely question, amillion! The answer's complicated. She feels what I would like my mother to feel - really, she does. But there's something missing between feeling and acting, in her case.

I finally got this during a family therapy session in rehab. The facilitator asked family members to tell the group how their addict's behaviours had hurt them. The other families had stories of robbery, violence, fraud, sexual abuse: crimes, basically. Mum told the group, passionately, how she couldn't sleep for worrying about me! My crime against her was that SHE worried about me ...

But, yes, she really does worry and, following many delicate talks, has some comprehension of why I'm angry that she tolerated my father's abuse. Her gestures are the only reparation she knows how to make. In the first year of this phase, she offered fairly crap gestures (cast-off clothes and half-eaten food, for eg!!) and I rejected them. Now she gives me nice 'mummy' things: decent food, home-made jam, £20 cash. As I need these things and understand her motive, I accept them gratefully.

One thing that I really, really want is people to help me sort my house out. A 'normal' family could fix this in a weekend. I have asked each member of mine, more than once, and they won't. They take me out to nice restaurants instead - on days of their choosing. [shrug]

i may as well have been raised by wolves

the last time I saw my sister was on my birthday. The kids took me out to lunch (so it was a while ago ) and she turned up. She talked to my kids throughout, didn't so much as glance at me except to throw me my birthday present. She didn't address me once. Such a headfuck.

there is a jealousy there, one I have simply not been able to understand. She has it all , I tell you - her life is enviable on every level, almost. (If anyone could be jealous it would be me! But I'm not. I envy what she has, would love to have what she has, but I'm not jealous. I'm jealous for her , wish I had her, wish she was a proper sister.) She is fabulously stylish, has a very rewarding career, functioning and happy kids and g'kids. yy that's not necessarily the whole picture, of course, but not to be sniffed at! Whereas there's sad old fucked up me with barely anything hanging together at all. I have simply never understood it/her, it seems to be bullying for the sake of it. She is incandescent with rage about me on some level, which pops out intermittently. She collects art, the good stuff, and some years ago I bought a painting by an artist who knocks her stuff into a hat, combined. Didn't do it on purpose, promise, truly didn't give her a thought - it was only when I got it home that I thought she would enjoy it for itself , I was excited to share it with her - how deluded I can be!! She has not stopped making jibes about it, asking me when I'm going to sell it - or, rather, 'havne't you sold that thing yet?'. This is the one who, when she was young, was astonished that people were crying about a well-known and well-loved celebrity's death. She felt totally cold and couldn't understand why people were upset. narc? or vicious bully? I'm going with the latter.

UA that is creepy and sick....and the cold chucking you away!
I dated one bloke who only stayed with mother of his baby until he was added to birth cert then he chucked her out days before xmas baby 3 months old! He did not think that was cruel...very calculated though. Ice cold with a false cham with an air of grandious is in their somewhere!
God I didn't alf chose them I will never trust my decision on partners again and for that reason will remain single for rest of my life.

oh I am so jealous of families! I saw an exhibition while I was away about families and I was transfixed, nose pressed up against the glass: what would it be like ??

the thing is, my family look like a family. They all get on famously, they are so glittering when they're together - people are drawn to them. There's an outsider though. That'll be me. I'm not in the glittering group at all

i used to covet people's mothers.

i'm actually a bit scared of families though tbh. i like that it is just me and my son. much as i have sometimes wished i could have more children it is actually best this way because there's no extra dynamics - it's me and him, it's face to face and it's simple.

springy i don't know about your sister but i know that my sister's self worth is somehow predicated upon my being beneath her. that's how she was raised she was the good one in relation to me being the bad one. my being the bad one is somehow essential to her feeling good. that will sound crazy paranoid but it's what my gut tells me.

i also know being the outsider of the glittery party. and all the minor humiliations of being talked over, ignored, slighted in a million subtle and not so subtle ways. oh and if you are ever upset by anything, make the mistake of reacting or asserting yourself it is proof that you are x, y or z. sometimes it is like being constantly provoked to react and constantly refusing to give the reaction. what a ridiculous way to live really.

I bet springydaff and others here, you are glittery and beautiful in real life, (regardless of anything else, family or otherwise).

We had a party one summer in my garden and the entire crew turned up, loads and loads of them. I was doing the catering and I slaved away, no-one offered to help. It was a good spread - not a peep. when I had a break I sat down to eat and no-one spoke to me . It was as if I was the maid. No-one spoke to me the entire day.

(sorry about this going on. It's spilling out a bit today)

thank you jane

One of my son's friends covetted me as a mother. Again, this was a very glittering family he was from, but he actually had a few tantrums about not having me as his mother. He hung around us for a long time because he wanted to be one of our little family (I'm not talking extended family here but the kids and me) but specifically wanted me to be his mother. I loved that boy but you can't step over the mark, eh.

I read stuff about families - good, ordinary stuff: about fathers, sisters, brothers, mothers - and I'm aghast. It's like drooling over other people's financial wealth, it seems impossible to have any of that: a good ordinary decent family. They're not all shit, surely??

the art exhibition I saw was marvellous. It was housed in a medieval castle in Italy and featured four sisters, early music aficionados; you walk through a splendid courtyard to get to the exhibition and the sisters were singing medieval plainsong, one voice each from speakers around the walls. I was entranced, it was magical. (is this a bit sickening? unrealistic?)

No springydaffs, a lot of people do get to have a happy childhood.I would count myself in that group,and many people I know.Though obviously,no one sees properly behind the scenes of any family.

Am I right in thinking your sister was brought up in a narc household too?

swallowedAfly,it is a shame your mother does not appreciate,or is unable to appreciate what she is missing,ie you and your ds.
Or perhaps she does understand on some level.But if she did properly understand,and is unable to do anything about it,that would make her more sad.

seaofyou,you never know.Someone may come along who is suitable.
I guess people say that to you though,so perhaps I should shut up.

Your mum is trying,isnt she garlic.
Again gently,has she other mental health issues as well do you think?

What sort of help did you want from them regarding your house?

No one has to answer anything I ask by the way.
I somewhat feel like I am intruding.

springy you can't choose your family sadly....but I have yet to see a 'perfect' family! I think you are searching for the unicorn sorry! We are dealt cards in life why I don't know why some more sh@: than others but you have shown to have the strength to cope with what you were dealt with.
Find RL friends to love that will fill some of the gaps...you can't change other's in your family but you can change YOU and stop being their doormat...you deserve so much more than that (hugs)

tbh i try and stay out of her head. i have accepted i can't imagine it. when i was younger i had this romantic notion that deep down she 'must' know x or feel y or yada yada yada. there was a point where i realised no, the normal rules do not apply. she may actually believe her lies. i suspect she is able to tell a lie about what happened and then slam the door on it - seal it as the new truth and not allow the real truth to stain the sealed picture she has made.

the reading till she falls asleep, the having to turn the light on and get a book in her hand the minute she wakes up was the real clue for me. i think it must be a massive a massive psychic strain to keep a lid on it all and not let any of it leak out and on some level it must be terrifying. i also accepted she will never ever accept blame or responsibility for anything or say sorry for something or doubt herself because it is probably like a house of cards in there - if one thing moves a teeny bit the whole lot might come crashing down.

with that i accepted that there would never come a day where she'd have an honest conversation with me and even hint at the problems with our relationship or my childhood. i honestly believe she will go to the grave like this, holding the door shut against reality.

very dramatic sounding that but yeah. she won't budge. i'll have to cope with it going all the way to the grave and all of it being left silent.

My DH spent a whole day recently reading an e-book about narcissism (I'm afraid I don't know what its called) because he realises that his recently-deceased mother probably was a narcissist. He spent quite a while talking about it with me. One of the points I remember was that typically they can come over as charming and helpful to other people - they want a good image. Because it is therefore controllable, in the US it is classified as a character disorder rather than a personality disorder - the subtle difference is that it therefore can't be used as a defence in a law court.

Another was about how she'd 'mellowed' as she got older - apparently this is typical in relationships with children as they come to need the child.

ahh thanks amillion:)
but no, no one says it to me...LOL!
Been alone 8 years and tbh what I read sometimes on here I am thankful I am out of it as it seems to be getting worse...don't know if it is evil fb or dating sites cause it, but relationships are not as important as they were 20 years ago in society today! Our whole nation is heading down the Narc road!

yes they can get worse before they get better though - as in supposedly they typically get much worse when their parents die and there are no checks and balances above them. then of course, as you say, they get older and can mellow through needing their children or simply through pragmatically knowing they can't have total control over their adult children so have to restrain themselves somewhat. especially if those kids start to exercise boundaries. it's all very precarious though - they can surprise you with an explosion that doesn't serve them at all really but they couldn't hold in their rage.

I feel so sorry for you,swallowedAfly.

There is a little plus side in that it has given you a lot more insight into things,but you have had to,and are paying a price for that.

I have stepped away sea. perhaps all this outpouring is grief held back for years. When they were in my life i was probably reeling from one strike after another but that's all over now (though they are currently managing to send some significant bombs from 'beyond the grave'...). I have kept them at arm's length for years, sometimes cutting them off entirely. Now it's done for good (I hope).

perhaps craving family is part of my recovery. I know, at least in my head (all theory, you see), that no family is perfect but it wouldn't be too hard a deal to discover families that aren't as mad.