happily married for 20+ years, slept with a man on a business trip, really need help

[scorpiomyrtlock]

This was about 6 weeks ago, I met the OM abroad, we slept together twice and I am due to meet him again next week when he visits UK. I am so confused, meeting him again will mean lying to my DH. I am sure everyone will tell me not to do it but of course I know that better than anyone. I don't recognise myself. I love my husband and there is nothing wrong in our marriage. Neither of us has ever been unfaithful. We have a good sex life with lots of novelty. I don't want to leave him or for him to change. None of this is his fault. Its just that having someone else telling me they find me attractive, etc and a person in my own right rather than just wife/mother/business partner after so long with one person is an indescribable high. I had never been in the position where I had to resist temptation before - I thought I would be able to easily, I was so shocked that I gave in so easily - in fact I was an equal instigator in the affair and in the subsequent arrangement to meet up again. I am sure posters will come on here and tell me to just stop what I am doing. I want to stop but at the same time I don't. Its like a drug that I know is bad for me but I can't resist. I'm otherwise a stable well balanced person (or so I thought) I am terrified that my DH will find out. I haven't told anyone. If you knew me you would think I was the last person to do this. Has anyone else succesfully resisted temptation after being faithful for so long? Literally how do you stop thinking about the OM? I cannot get the thoughts of him out of my head. I don't want to be with him (he is married) and he is totally unsuitable for me. This is driving me crazy. I thought these feelings would go away after a few weeks but they are getting worse.

It is all bottling up and I have no one to talk to. I can't go for counselling I would have to explain to my DH why and as far as he knows I am happy.

Sorry joona, I do see where you're coming from more now: you're not so much angry at people trying to help this OP as angry that people who are trying to help her on here were so very unhelpful towards your friend (and you yourself, which is just daft). Makes sense.

thumbwitch yes that is exactly it. Thank you for understanding where i am coming from.

I am not a monster, and i realise that people make mistakes in life. None of us are perfect (myself included) and i think ALL human beings who are couragous enough to step forward, admit their mistakes and ask for help are entitled to receive it.

noddyholder you may see this as me taking things personaly, but i can assure you that is not the case.

I have nothing against the OP or those who are trying to help her. I just wish the same sort of compassion could be given to EVERYONE that needs it.

My comments are based on what seems to be the double standards and hypocricy of some of the people that are posting. I only brought up my own thread regarding my friend as an example, to try and explain my point.

op,do you think this will be the end of all of this,assuming your DH does not find out?

joona,I have had a brief look at your thread.
Am I right in thinking there may be only about 2 posters on your thread who are the same posters as on this thread?

To be totally honest im not sure on how many there are, i havent kept count. But i have recognised a couple of names on here who also posted on mine with very harsh views.. much harsher than the ones they express here.

Although it isnt a personal attack on those individuals in paticular, there are also others who have said themselves they would express a different opinion if the sexes were reveresed because 'there will be a natural bias due to OP and majority of MN users being female'.

IMO that shouldnt have any effect on the compassion you are able to show when it's needed by another human. What the OP has done is equally as wrong as when a man does it, but a man is much more harshly judged by the majority.

And i dont just mean the couple of people who have posted on here aswell as mine.

When i say the majority, i mean women in general.

And the evidence to back that up is clearly shown by the amount of compassion & understanding shown here towards another woman, by women... Compared to the lack of compassion & understanding shown on mine, regarding a man.

Im not including all women in that comment. There are a percentage who say they would treat a man in this same position the same way. And those women i applause. Thats the way it should be. Gender shouldnt come into it, but unfortunately for some, it does.

Tut, *applaud, please excuse my above sloppiness :s

joona,you yourself say on the other thread on Wed 20.24pm "Lets face it,a 5 year relationship with another woman is very different to a quick fling or one night stand".

I'm a poster who posted on both this thread and yours joona. Although I think it's deeply inappropriate to hijack someone else's thread about a grievance on another, it might help you understand a little more if I explain my position, the differences as I see it between the situations depicted in both threads - and direct you to what I've actually said on this one. I don't know if I'm the only common denominator poster either; if I'm not those posters will have to speak for themselves.

Your thread chronicled the story of your male friend who had an affair while living with his partner and their child. Apparently his partner forgave this affair and as far as she was concerned, it was long over. Whereas in fact the affair resumed and has now been going on for 5 years. When the affair was discovered many years ago now, his partner allegedly threatened to move to Ireland if they split up and your friend is now giving this as one of the reasons why he cannot be honest with his partner, because he wants to continue living with their child. He also says he loves both women, a statement that you were so baffled about that it became the title of your thread, wondering whether other posters believed this to be possible. This was the question in the thread, not 'How Can I Support Him?'

If a woman had posted that story or a friend had posted it and asked for my views, I would have responded in exactly the same way - and have, on similar threads.

There is a world of difference between someone who has been engaged in a long-term deception of two people who is continuing it only because ending it will have consequences for him - and someone who did something completely out of character and sought help from others to prevent her from doing it again. The genders have no relevance whatsoever; the circumstances are entirely different.

Notwithstanding that, my own posts on this thread have urged the OP not to start blaming her husband for her own behaviour, not to believe the words of a proven liar about his relationship, to look at her selfishness and whatever else propelled her to do this. I've also tried to put a stop to any criticisms of her husband, pointing out that if a man had been posting about his affair, most posters would not be inventing or adding to any perceived faults in his wife.

This is what I was saying to you on your thread. To be more circumspect about what you believe from someone who has been lying to his loved ones for over 5 years and that unless you've spoken to his partner about the situation, not to judge her and be willing to believe that she is blackmailing your friend into staying with her, especially when her threat to leave the country is now very old news. I also said that like this OP, your friend has behaved selfishly, but his selfishness is in a different league to the OP on this thread. I don't believe that 'love' excuses that sort of deception either.

I hope that the OP can get her thread back now....

Wow didn't tell us that teensy weeny difference did you joona?

charbon

You said it there.
allegedly threatened to move back to ireland and take the child with her

allegedly
Therefore automatically implying that you believe this is absolute rubbish. Yet you accept the word of a female stranger who says they have acted out of character without question. Do you know OP? Do you know for sure she has acted out of character? ... If not, then your point about me not having any evidence about the 'blackmail' as you put it, other than the word of a friend i have known since childhood, who told me about this affair off his own back because he wanted advice on which way to go, is completely invalid.

Yes he has behaved in an extremely selfish manner for a long period of time... Because he struggles to choose between his own happiness, or sacrifice it and stay in an unhappy relationship in order to avoid hurting innocent people that dont deserve it.

Where is the compassion and understanding for his position? There IS none. Does he not have a right to be happy? Yes, everybody does. But that doesnt mean that he finds it easy to hurt others in order to pursue his own happiness, which is where his dilema is. He has accepted he cannot go on living this double life, and is struggling to resolve it.

OP on the other hand has said she is perfectly happy in her marriage. Good sex life, no complaint in any area of the relationship.

It's to do with her own ego, and she has activley deceived her husband who she married, and swore to be faithful to in their vows... For what? A man that means nothing to her.

You're clearly not reading the thread joona or my posts.

I never accept at face value that someone has an affair 'out of blue'. Hence I commented that selfishness rarely comes out for the first time aged 50 and early on, urged the OP to think back to other behaviours or situations that might have been portents of what was to come.

In a sense, as posters we are playing the role you were given with your friend. Urging her not to let herself off the hook with easy excuses and advising her to be extremely sceptical about the claims of someone who like her, has been deceiving his spouse. Several posters including me commented that her husband and the man's wife might tell a different story.

You on the other hand seem not to have any doubts about your friend's story, or if you do you haven't posted them. Although you condemn the way he has dealt with his situation, you seem to believe everything he is telling you and is telling himself. A really good friend would suspend judgement unless she's heard everyone's side of the story, or tried to see it from their point of view at least. People involved in affairs often lie to themselves just as much as the others in their lives, because few people like to own up to their own selfish motives.

I don't think anyone on your thread was saying your friend had no rights to happiness, but we were also trying to uphold the rights of others in his situation and especially his partner's right not to be deceived any longer.

Where is your thread Joona, perhaps we could discuss this on that thread.
You probably have a point but imo posters post from their own experiences so chances are they have not come across your friend's predicament but can empathise (or I can) more with the OP on this thread's problems.

Your last post sounded much fairer than some you have made previously, and i understand where you are coming from when you explain it in that context charbon.

Just one quibble to make: you say i dont seem to have any doubts about my friends story, and if i do, i havent posted them.....

"Is it really possible to love two people at the same time?"

That was my doubt, and i wanted to get the views of others on that matter, so that i could decide wether i could accept 'love' as a reason for his on-going deception.

After reading that many people believe you CAN love more than one person, but in different ways, i accept his reason as genuine... However, i still dont accept that his behaviour is anything less than a disgrace, & i still strongly disapprove.
I just understand WHY he is as torn as he is... And that is why i made the decision to try and help, regardless of my own personal feelings where infidelity is concerned.

Im not very good at explaining things clearly i guess, because many people have seen me as slating the OP but defending my friend. I hope i have managed to make things a little clearer?

I'm glad you've understood now joona and hope that the OP can return to her thread now if she wants.

WRT your own situation, just remember that your friend's presentation of his motives is that he is secretly involved with two women because he loves them both and doesn't want to hurt anyone by choosing. I'm sure at some fairly shallow level he believes that too. But that's never the only reason. His version of events doesn't include the self-interest element which is always present in a deception. So instead of focusing on whether it's possible to love two people, if you're going to be of help to your friend it would be better to focus on his other motives, as well as challenging this version of 'love' that allows him to deceive one woman and expect that another puts her life on hold for him - for 5 whole years. Being a friend means challenging his self-delusions and trying to see the other sides of the story, while supporting him to do the right thing and allowing the other protagonists the rights they've been denied for too long, including of course the rights of his child.

I'm still not sure if I should have posted the above on your dormant thread joona and if I'm now also contributing to a thread hijack, I apologise unreservedly to the OP. However I think joona if you still want to debate your friend's situation, it would be better for you as the OP of that thread to resurrect it.

I won't be commenting again on this thread about anything other than the OP's situation.

joona, I don't believe in love at first sight and therefore your friend had a choice. He could, very easily, have avoided falling in love with his OW, by not pursuing a relationship with her in the first place.

Fwiw, I don't believe that everyone has a right to happiness. Not if it is obtained by lying, deceiving and cheating. His wife's right to be treated with care and respect by far outweighs any rights he might have.

However you slice and dice it, carrying on for 5 years with Ow is sleazy. He's not entitled to any sympathy or compassion imo.

The OP hasn't done that yet. Things can still be turned around for her if she makes the right choice now.

He never said it was 'love at first sight'. It started as physical attraction which he stupidly acted on, just like OP. And because he allowed it to happen, it progressed into more. OP is also considering another meeting with OM, and confesses that she cant stop thinking about him.. therefore implying that there is the possibility of a full blown affair if she cannot resist temptation.

I have said several times that i am beyond disgusted with my friend's behaviour, so i wish people would stop acting as though i am defending his actions. I am not! I am merely trying to help a friend & trying to guide him in the right direction.. but to do so, i needed to understand why he has allowed himself to get to this point. He should have had the sense to ask for help sooner, but he didnt. Better still, he shouldnt have got himself into the situation in the first place. If he was unhappy in his relationship, he should have ended it before starting a new one... However, he admits he needs help now, and i, as a friend, am trying to provide it.

As for the whole 'love' issue... I am open minded enough to accept that the beliefs of some differ to the beliefs of others. I am not so quick to deem it as lies & rubbish.

Myself? I am NOT a believer in love at 1st sight.. but there are people out there who truly do, and just because the idea doesnt ring true to me personaly, i dont feel i have a right to judge those who disagree.

Imo, only the people who feel this emotion know wether it is true to them or not.

My friend says he has gradually fallen for OW. He is stupid for allowing it to happen, and it may be a bare faced lie... But then again, it may not. Only he knows that. And i suspect he is genuine in his feelings for OW, otherwise he would not even be considering leaving his home to be with her.

Anyway, i have explained my point and this has progressed onto the subject in my thread rather than that of the OP. I only brought my thread up to use as an example. charbon is right in saying my friend's problems should not be discussed on this thread, which is why i never responded to her last post.

I apologise to OP for hijacking her thread, it was never meant to go as far as this but when posters appeared to turn on me because my comments were mistaken for me being angry about people helping her, i felt the need to defend myself.

Everybody fucks up, some in more extreme ways than others. But when they step up & ask for help when they know they are in the wrong, i think it takes alot of courage, and that should be awknowledged in all cases.

FGS Joona give it up now

a) We get it - you think we're all man haters

b) Your male friend had a FIVE YEAR affair - OP's had a two day fling (yes it's shit, yes we all agree she was wrong). Guess what? if it had been your female friend who'd had a FIVE YEAR affair we'd have thought she was a cunt too

c) You posted about said friend - maybe he would have got different responses if he'd posted personally and showed remorse/concern about his wife

Incase you hadnt noticed, i did just say that i agree this thread should not be discussing my friend's problem.. it was brought up as an example only because people were misunderstanding my point, and thinking that i was slating those who are trying to help. If people keep on about it, i'll continue to defend myself, so YOU give it up.
And i posted on his behalf, because i was looking for opinions on how to advise him. I did not want to be biased because he is a friend.

I got no advice, other than from charbon which i have chosen to take on board.

And just for the record, she isnt his wife. They never married, he made no vows.
Not that it excuses his behaviour in any way. But OP did. And broke them. Be it through a one off, quick fling or affair.
Cheating is cheating. Breaking vows is breaking vows.

Ok, so I've been watching this thread... And everyone makes really good points... But, and one foot through the door here ready to run, is there any possibility that DH will find out if you dont tell him? Oh, and please don't...

Sex with consenting safe strangers can be absolutely brilliant, good for the ego, spirit and soul. It reminds us of who we were and could be. I'm actually much nicer to my DH if I have a bit of extra curricula going on.
Just set the rules, be very careful and safe ( healthcare obviously). I always think of it as playing squash with a different player at the club.. Just disassociate the sex from being a wife and you'll be fine... And have some fun, that is OK you know...

Are you happy with that? We do seem to over think these situations...
Good luck

Joona it is an interesting discussion, and probably one worth having. On your thread. A link would help.

But I don't know how MNHQ feel about threads decending into threads about threads and reckon it isn't in this thread's OP's interests to risk this one getting deleted due to TOS ciolations.

I promise I'm not being thread policey for the sake of waggling TOS and angling to become form prefect. Just ...it would be pity if it got deleted and she got left hanging in limbo unsure if she should start another one in case it ends up going poof too.

suocerablues
I know what you're saying, and i agree.. i only tried to point out what i see as biased treatment at first.. i was challenged and so used my own thread as an example.. but clearly that was me throwing myself to a pack of wolves :s

I never intended for the whole thing to go so far, but i have people now bitching at me for expressing my opinions, which we all have a right to do. And i feel i am well within my rights to defend myself and my views, freedom of speech & all that jazz... And will continue to do so for as long as people keep getting arsey over it. The sooner other people drop it, the sooner i will stop defending myself.

Re: a link to my own thread, i am on my phone and unable to copy & paste.. but my profile is public so you can find it there if you wish to do so, headed "can you really love two people at the same time?"