How do you know for sure that you should leave?

[Apty]

Relationships are full of good and bad. What do you do when you are confused about the balance and how bad it really is?

My instincts tell me to leave sometimes, and then at other times that seems like the worst thing to do.

Do you reach a point when you know?

Don't get me wrong I agree about firm foundations but when I was in this horrible situation I couldn't see the wood from he trees and thought we has no firm foundations to build on, minus the Dv I felt all those on your list were prevalent in our relationship- I was on the verge of giving up, but didn't, and love found its way again.

I'm glad things worked out for you and your DP unfair . I also think though that most of the time when it gets to such a critical stage, like many of the women on this thread have reached, we should not feel bad if we are unable to get the feelings back, and need to move on and let our DPs move on too.

I remember someone saying upthread that quite often the partners do not want to put any work into the relationship until it is too late and the ship has sailed so to speak. Both partners have got to put the work in, and not be tardy about it. If one partner is saying they will change but not really changing any more than they feel they need to, or only starting to change once they have been backed up against a wall, that has a massive effect on the decision of the other person.

What effect cannot? Sorry for short post.

Hands covered in paint.

By effect, I mean an effect on their decision about whether to stick it out in the relationship a bit longer or whether to finish things. I obviously cannot speak for everyone, but I remember someone saying, and a few people agreeing, that if their partners had made moves to change behaviours earlier down the line, they may have been able to have worked things out, but instead it was a case of too little, too late.

It seems to be a recurring theme on this thread, that DPs only seem to be willing to make changes once their cosy homelife is threatened, or they have been a bit dense and have had to have things really spelt out to them, by which point their other half is seething with anger and resentment. They just did not notice what effect their negative behaviours were having.

Clean hands now.

I too was a seething mess of anger and resentment amongst many other feelings but also regretted that I had let this happen for so long and felt that my partner should have worked it out before it got to breaking point.

I sometimes share these threads with my Dh and we talk about them and reflect on others negative experiences to continue to build our relationship. We think and talk about how we got from verge of ending it all to where we are now.
He just read y our comment and admitted that he was 'a bit dense' ( much more than a bit) and didn't notice the effects of his behaviours. He says 'there is nothing he will ever regret more than this and the hurt and resentment he caused me. He was devastated and didn't know how to be or how to change', we talked a lot, good conversations and very hurtful but honest conversations, we removed snied and veiled comments and used compliments and honesty, we listened to each other.

I should have told him sooner but was scared of ruining my family that was already nearly ruined. I regret my weakness to put up with it for so long. I blamed him and felt it was all his fault, but I let it happen.

In my previous name on here I ranted and vented in a similar thread to this an found many similar voices/troubles/opinions/advice but one shining light saved our relationship. Simplified by saying - we can't change our behaviours in the past, we can't predict the future, but we can change ourselves from today if the will is there. Look further than here and speak to people who have been through this and believe.

Anyway, who am I, but a wisened old woman trying to spread a nice story - do what your heart tells you!

We can't change our behaviours in the past, we can't predict the future, but we can change ourselves from today if the will is there. That is so true, but sometimes for either party, the will isn't there, or it is just too late.

I definitely do not want to style myself as the LEAVE THE BASTARD voice on this thread, I am just trying my hardest to stop feeling guilty about not having any try left in me. Also somehow trying to differentiate my feelings regarding this difficult situation between my true deep feelings for my partner and those that that link to my guilt about splitting my family up, guilt about enabling my DPs behaviours by not pulling him up on them before, my guilt about not being more self-aware, of being too busy with my toddler / baby to notice the way our relationship was heading.

I am being rather ineloquent and rambling, but I think my message to myself and others is to work at it as much as you can, but don't feel guilty if you can't work at it any longer. Don't feel guilty for not pulling your partner up on his negative behaviours earlier, it was not your responsibility to, it was his responsibility alone. Just because you send all the birthday cards, bake all the cakes for the cake sales, make all the dentist appointments, don't also think you should have taken 100& responsibility for the emotional health of your relationship. Sometimes love comes back, sometimes it doesn't, but you are not at fault if you cannot reignite it. It is just the way it is.

I agree with you, Unfair, that anyone considering leaving should look further than this board in the search for their own answer. It is lovely to hear of couples who have been in the same situation and have stayed together and made it work.

I found, in my extensive reading, discussions, therapy and soul searching, that I didn't want to try to make it work, for the reasons Cannot mentioned above. But I couldn't have come to my final decision without really closely examining the reasons for that. And I just couldn't force myself to try either. I think that's when I knew that, despite all the guilty feelings, and fear of the future, etc. I had to say it was over.

The other good piece of advice that comes up on this and similar threads is, to remember that there is no rush. The thing that will spur you on most to your decision may well be that you cannot bear the limbo any longer, and you will know when you have reached that point, but until that time you have every right to keep pondering, questioning, researching and reflecting.

I am new to this thread but so pleased I found it tonight because I live with someone I no longer love and would like to leave, and will leave one day - but our kids adore him so for now I don't think it's a possibility.

So heartening though to know that other men are great with their kids but not so great with their partners. I have moments of doubt because people think he's such a great bloke - but they don't see what goes on in this house, how he is with me in private (how we are with each other, even, because I have backed away from him so much over the last couple of years) - only what a smiling, helpful, sociable person he is in public.

I will read your posts with great interest... thank you all for sharing your stories. They have made me feel better tonight.

Hi All

It has just hit me that this is it. I'm on my own now.

After the excitement of actually moving in I feel very flat. Not helped by having a thick head from drinking a whole bottle of wine last night. I've had quite a lot of wine since I moved in and I haven't been going to college. I'm telling myself this is just because this is a period of readjustment. I'm also doing an undemanding and very boring rotation at medical school, which is probably no bad thing with all the moving admin I've had/have to do, but I'm worried I've lost my routine, structure and self discipline.

I'm also spending money like water which is terrifying. A lot of it on things I need (like a fridge freezer) but I still feel really uneasy about it.

I suppose it is normal to have good and bad days. I just feel numb really. I miss the children and can feel how much they miss me. When I see dd1 now she has lost her 'attitude' and is very sweet.

I daresay dh is quite flat and low, and I feel for them being stuck with him while I finish getting the house sorted for them to move in.

I'm wondering a bit what the point was. That sounds so self indulgent when I wanted so much to leave and for so long.

:(

NewsAtTen sorry to hear you are going through similar, I'm glad the experiences and comments on here made you feel better last night. Post about your situation if it helps

Tired, good to hear from you. Your post is not self-indulgent at all, just because you finished the relationship doesn't mean you are not grieving too. I think a flat period is only to be expected after all the upheaval, uncertainty and stress of the last few months, hopefully that flatness will turn into calm and certainty soon. I agree that it is probably a good thing that you have an undemanding placement at medical school at the moment, relish the headspace and throw yourself into lectures! I would love to study again

I'm sorry you are missing your kids , it must be hard. But I am glad you are getting things sorted out at your new house. Hopefully your XH will start sorting himself out soon. Has the au pair arrived yet?

Welcome News and do post if you need support.

Tired being away from your girls is very new, so I'm not surprised you're a bit down :(. And there may be a touch of "hangover depression" there too, so tomorrow you will hopefully feel a bit less flat and you can start to look forward to your DCs moving in with you. Your routine is different at the moment, but that doesn't mean it has changed forever - I guess that when you're back on a more demanding placement or part of your course, that will give you the drive to reorganise yourself once again and things will start to feel more 'normal'. In the meantime, use the relative quiet to tie up all those housey admin loose ends, and do other things you wouldn't normally have time to think about. Stay strong x

Hi all, just a quick wish of smiles this weekend for you all. and or and a or two. X

Awww, thanks Unfair - you too.

And thanks cannot and Thistle for your kind messages.

Welcome News

The au pair has arrived. I'm a bit gutted tbh. She came across as really bright and upbeat in her emails but in real life she isn't. I think she is an introvert. She is 18 and has never had a bf and says she doesn't want one!! Because she has had to pick up the pieces too many times with her friends. She admits that she can't cook. She doesn't speak much. The girls came round for tea last night and she barely spoke to them, though she brought them a cake over from Denmark. They are so sweet though and want to give her a chance.

She is into fantasy novels and films, draws these strange manga-type cartoons and has facial piercings and dip-dyed hair. A little bit gothic. She is also really into Halloween, and dd2 is having a sleepover and going trick or treating on Wednesday, so I've suggested she goes with them. She has a raccoon outfit she wants to wear. Why do I always get the weirdos? I always get the weirdo sit next to me on the train etc.

She was very helpful today anyway. The house is looking lovely and I have put everything away. Still loads to pick up from the family home. I got a new car yesterday as well. A Peugeot 207, traded in for my MX5. :(

I'm feeling really strange about it all. I miss my husband a lot. I was so focused for so long on my unhappiness with him and getting out, that now I have I am remembering his good qualities. I have to stick with it and see how it goes I guess.

One thing that's really weird, and has surprised me, and sorry if it's TMI, but I lie in my bed in my new bedroom and I'm thinking about how much I want a lover to share it with me. I don't want a relationship, just some sex!! It's really surprised me, because all I wanted was to be on my own and my own person.

Not in the least bit interested in another partner though haha.

Tired, I don't know your story because I haven't had time to read all the post on here (sorry), but just sending hugs really because you sound so low. Don't beat yourself up, you are bound to have low times at this stage - just believe that you will get through them. The time will come, and hopefully soon, when you think it was worth it and you're really enjoying life - and I'm sure you'll get plenty of offers of sex too! You can always turn 'em down! Take care, you have done a huge thing and your house is looking lovely, so that's a plus! :)

Thanks Unfair :)

Tired I quite like the sound of your au pair actually, she might turn out to be quite fab :). At least she doesn't conform to the usual stereotype!

My DH works away for 2 weeks at a time. For a long time I felt awful about how trapped I felt when he came home, because I'd miss him terribly when he was away. So I get why you're missing your DH right now. It's only in the last year or so that I accepted that our relationship only looked and felt ok when he actually wasn't here, and realised how bad things were when he was home. Stick in, those feelings of missing him will pass.

Thanks Thistle and News.

News I don't blame you not wanting to read the whole thread. It's got really long! I'm pleased about that actually. It's been a bit of a slow-burn thread, not lots of quick, dogmatic posts, but lots of thoughtful ones, and updates, and sharing experiences.

I spoke to the au pair this evening and asked her how she felt about being here, not in my house, but in England and she said it was better than she had imagined!! A bit surprising because she seems a bit depressed!

I am going to push ahead with decorating - every bit of the house was white when I moved in (I just typoed 'shite' by accident then corrected it, but that's about right, really haha)

Farrow and Ball Cinder Rose for my bedroom - atm it's a really dark blue (F&B Hague Blue?) and though I told myself that my bedroom would be decorated last I'm not sure I can live with it much longer.

Tomorrow I am getting my very grey and I'm only 41 roots done then I plan to hit the kitchen with roller and brush (Wickes 'Biscuit'). I can distract myself with decorating and maybe it will help me and the au pair to bond. She is keen to help.

I'm thinking a lot about Apty who started this thread and wondering how she is getting on. Please post Apty!!

Thistle thanks for your reassuring words about the au pair. And that missing dh is normal. You are right, when he is not around I start thinking about the ideal relationship (which doesn't exist and never did) and forget the badness of the real one. x

Hi all, how's your weekends going? Hope you've had some smiles

The au pair is unbearable. I can get her on a flight home for £79 on Wednesday. I feel really conned. I made clear my circumstances and it's a difficult time. I said I wanted someone mature, independent, happy, secure, positive, proactive. How she could ever have thought she might fit with this God only knows. I am sat here in the sitting room with my daughter on the sofa and she is sat opposite me silently watching the TV. I was dreading her coming downstairs. She is not just none of the qualities I listed, she is a really negative presence.

I can't bear it, I am happy here with just my kids. No idea how I will manage to get someone else at short notice. I have had a terrible year and this feels like the last straw. I feel like asking dh to come back, I honestly do.

:(

send the au pair packing she is not what you want to need for your DD's

Could you even advertise for a local older person (even in the short term) to help you out who may be willing to work hours to fit around yours who would only saty overnight if needed.

My D sister did this and it worked very well.

Your DD's are old enough to just need a responsible adult present , they don't need care as such

Hi all, haven't posted in a bit for various reasons - but pop in to see how you are all doing.
Sorry to hear about the au pair Tired. I'd get rid, you don't need someone draining energy from you.
I must say I envy you your new house and I think you just need a bit of time to settle. It's inevitable. My h has been away with work for the past 10 days and I have not missed him. Missed an extra pair of hands around the house maybe, but that's it.
The thing I've been struggling terribly with lately is the celibacy. It's driving me crazy and makes me feel so sad and a bit pathetic. A long term single friend tells me it gets easier, and that I'll get used to it.
I wonder. It's not a relationship I want (I think) - just sexual contact - but there's no possibility of that. Its so strange to think I'll never be with h again in that way. Sorry for the rambles... I don't have any idea or plan for moving forward and I dont know how or where to begin. I have this idea that I need to get rid of my personal debt and thats what in trying to do. Then I can start to think of moving out or getting h to go :( another year of this.... :(

Sorry it didn't work out Tired, it's just another stress you don't need :(. I agree with Doha, I know a few people who have hired a retired person just to be there for the DCs in the morning and after school, peg out washing etc, might be worth an advert.

Sherry good to hear from you :). I like the idea of working on getting rid of personal debt, seems a good place to start. I'm sorry I don't remember why you have to continue to live together for another year, but is that why the celibacy thing is an issue? Or is it that you can't face another relationship in order to access the sexual contact? I have to say I feel a bit like that, can't imagine going without sex for a long time (although it's already been a few months to be fair) but have absolutely no plans to look for a relationship in the near future. Who knows, though? Maybe when we are least expecting it....

Everything fine here, DCs and I are bumbling along quite the thing, as we always do when DH is away. DF has wound his neck in for now, but DM is ramping up the disgust and anger towards me. Actually that's not true, she is just being her usual narc self. Have just had face all the parents at once, at DC's sport event, and DM placed herself firmly with the in-laws after telling me my manner was appalling and that I needed to stop talking down to her. I think that's called projection?! She was firing questions at me as to when she can see the DCs and what DH is doing, when he is moving out (this in full earshot of other mums), and because i kept saying i don't know - because i don't, she assumes I'm trying to keep her in the dark and she is convinced that the inlaws will see more of them than she will. i can't stand it, and there's no warmth at all from her, so I'm keeping her at arms length for now . On a more positive note, I've told almost all my friends now, and have been getting loads of lovely messages of support. People aren't as shocked as I was expecting, just sad to hear.

Sorry to vent (again!). Hope you all had a good weekend x

Thistle I am so sorry about your parents. Yes, do keep her at arm's length for now, you have enough to deal with without your mum's emotional pathology.

Not sure how proactive your friends are... I am very busy because of my course so I see little of mine and usually don't mind because I can't spare the time. They are good at keeping in touch, but I'm not part of the daily social life because I can't be. Unless you see a lot of your friends in general I would urge you to tell them that you are in need of ongoing support. Mine rallied round when I first told them what was happening, then I went off the radar a bit. Don't be too proud to say that you need them to stay with you. I have spent many lonely evenings feeling dreadful, too proud to ring my friends, or too thoughtful to burden them with my problems. Don't let yourself get in this position, please. Get people to check in with you.

You sound stronger and more certain than I feel I am, though I'm further down the road sat here (alone) in my new house - more of that later. And your dh sounds like he is handling things better than mine.

But don't underestimate how awful the break will be. You will feel such an awful mix of emotions - joy and freedom one minute, terrible grief and guilt the next.

Smallsherry I get what you say about sex. I found the idea of spending the rest of my life with someone I didn't fancy horrific. I can't believe I'm posting this on MN - a judgemental place, sorry everyone - but after dh and I agreed to separate I had a brief and pretty meaningless fling with a nice man I fancied like mad who was in a similar situation. Technically unfaithfulness for sure, but actually much less significant than falling in love with someone else, something I did do, but which was 100% more damaging - to me and my marriage.

Doha thanks for your straightforward advice. It's the route I've taken.

NewsatTen thanks for your supportive message.

I am sad and lonely tonight. Drinking red wine on my own. Despite dh's florid emotional goodbyes yesterday, the dds have returned to their 'real' home. They didn't like it here much - no shower, and dd1 v obsessed with hygiene right now -start of puberty etc, said she didn't really feel clean after a bath.

Both bickering constantly. And though I have made house lovely -sitting room literally looks like something out of Homes and Gardens, both their bedrooms looking gorgeous and not in the least improvised - they couldn't help noticing the little missing bits - no pot for toothbrushes, no bookshelves.

I don't know if this is panic, but I honestly feel that maybe low level pain long term is better to deal with than this extreme agony, albeit hopefully for a short time. I have no hope or expectation (or perhaps even enthusiam) for another ltr.

Just want to be a good mum, deal with my course and forge a career commensurate with my abilities and skills. But this feels so hard to do.

I couldn't bear the au pair. I escaped to the family home this afternoon and felt a huge weight lifting. How crazy when I spent a few days here, feeling the strangeness, anticipating the arrival of my daughters, but loving the personal space - and headspace. I did four days with her on my own and it was hard work, but I couldn't cope with her inability to engage with the kids.

I have her on a flight home tomorrow. Feel guilty but also relieved. What a total disaster. She was probably a nice person but incredibly timid and unable to deal with the job. I told her my old au pair was coming back, didn't want to hurt her.

Now I have no childcare and can't have the kids here till I do.

Too tired to write more. Well I am tired Had a friend round since I started writing this, now texting another. Thank God for friends.

Oh and Smallsherry I feel horny as hell since I've been out of marital home (sorry tmi). And the sex I had with Mr Meaningless was mind-blowing. It actually proved that it all still works. He was an awesome kisser and just thinking about him gave me an ache down there (being a bit ironic there, if anyone's read Fifty Shades and let's face it we probably all have - that's half a day I won't see again :() haha

btw, I feel like some of you know me a bit by now, and I want to make clear I thought Fifty Shades was a crock of shit - badly written, unerotic, coy, tedious, blah blah...