How do you know for sure that you should leave?

[Apty]

Relationships are full of good and bad. What do you do when you are confused about the balance and how bad it really is?

My instincts tell me to leave sometimes, and then at other times that seems like the worst thing to do.

Do you reach a point when you know?

My Dh just agreed that when I set boundaries strongly - they mean everything to him and he feels all the more determined to sticking them and soon after initial difficult adjustments, enjoys doing so.

Thanks for your good wishes, people.

Have removers booked. Lots of packing to do.

Taking Friday off.

Feels weird more than anything. Keep getting flashbacks to happy times when the children were small :(

Thanks from me too - and good luck Tired, hope the move goes well.

I am terrified about telling the DCs and my parents, but I just want to get on and do it, then we can all start to plan the future together.

DH has now produced a fairly decent schedule for seeing the kids and I'm feeling that we can remain civil. I feel sad, and especially sad for him, but also quite excited to see what the future brings.

How's it going today everyone? Hope packing is going ok and not too painful.

Cannot how is everything with you today?

Nothing has really changed today, I feel like we have reached a hiatus again after a couple of months of turbulence and mindfuckery. I was 99% sure it was over this time last week, and now, after a few days of dp being kind, helpful and not so clingy, I feel numb again. Why has it got to be so hard?

I have taken on board your post yesterday about how your dh came through the other side of his sexual pestery, and I hope dp can, but at the moment it feels like something has been irreparably damaged. I am feeling guilty because I feel I enabled his behaviour for years by not pulling him up on it, so it is partly my fault for being so stupid and weak. I don't feel like a strong, intelligent feminist, I feel like a weak victim of misogynist society. I let this happen. My thoughts about thus have strengthened today after reading a thread about this here.

I worry I will never want sex with him again even if he addresses his issues in therapy and changes. Then we will en up splitting anyway and it will be my fault. I will be splitting my family up with my own selfishness.

This not thus, end not en .

I pressed send before previewing my post, I also wanted to add that I am worried that dp will get fixed and I will feel the fucked-up same.

I went through all those mixed up feelings, I really understand exactly what you are saying and thinking, quite scary actually.

If he does get 'fixed' then your feelings might change too - feeling respected and valued is massive after resentment and hurt. I took and was in control, I didn't 'fix' my own feelings overnight and did not do anything/kept the boundaries until I was ready to change those boundaries.
Don't feel weak or the victim - you will be so empowered by all this if you control this repair of your relationship and will be and feel strong beyond belief.

For me, it was the most powerful thing I have ever overcome, was hard but worth it.

Cannot it does sound positive that your DH is going for counselling - and if it does 'fix' him, then you have a clearer basis on which to have a good look at how you really feel about him and your relationship. It's true that you might still want to finish it - but at least you can reach that conclusion having had a bit more time and physical space to think about it. And if you decide to stay, then you have your new boundaries in place and you can take it from there. Hope it goes well for you in any case. It's fab, Unfair, that your own story turned out so well :).

Apty I meant to come back to you with more info on Bodytalk. It seems to be based on kinesiology, Chinese medicine, and bits of many other holistic therapies! It doesn't really matter if you believe in any of the therapies, it just seems to work. It cured my best pal's lifelong fear of flying - she is 50 - and she now flies on her own. It has helped me hugely with my self esteem - I still think the same way (I'm not good enough, etc) but I am much more able to put those thoughts to one side and be more rational.

Well I'm packing tomorrow, out on Saturday.

I will keep you all posted, re how it feels, but may be offline for a bit till I get internet sorted in my new house.

x

Good luck Tired, hope it goes well. Will look forward to hearing how you are getting on x

Thanks Thistle I took a while to be fab, but got there in the end small steps and on my terms and my confidence grew again.

Good luck today Tired, keep smiling and enjoy a well earned at the end of the day or before if not driving today .

Am en route to London to see a friend for the night, actually feeling like I will miss DH tonight - never thought that I would feel that again a while back.

Have a fab day everyone.

Today is awful. Packing with my mum. Been in tears most of the day and we both broke down this morning. Keep finding wedding photos, pics of the kids when they were small, all the bits and pieces bought on various holidays. So many memories.

I wonder if this means I'm doing the wrong thing or it's just natural grief at things not turning out the way I hoped and believed they would.

I suppose I will find out the answer to this question after I've moved out and things have settled down.

I haven't written it off, but maybe that's just finding it hard to let go. Or maybe it's because I still love my husband underneath all the hurt that we've caused each other. I know that I felt stifled in my marriage, unable to be myself and unable to grow up. He's not a bad man and has lots of good qualities but he is screwed up and would need to change and get rid of the 'Mr Hyde' in him. I don't think he can do that without time on his own to think about it all and finally admit to himself his own responsibility in our marriage ending up like this.

He has always been defensive and blaming me, because I haven't been terribly nice to him in recent years - this was because he hurt me so much with years of chipping away at my self esteem with his critical, passive aggressive behaviour.

He is heartbroken at what is happening, I know that. If he can reflect on it and accept his own part in things going so wrong, we might be able to move on together rather than apart. Only time will tell. Whatever, hopefully we will be able to rediscover some friendship when we no longer live together and co-operate in making a good and happy life for our children.

DD1 being very unhelpful, I need to make a decisions about big furniture to take tomorrow and she gets very annoyed and stressed when I ask her which wardrobe we need to take from here. And says coldly that she 'can't help me'. It's horrible. :(

Ah well, I'd better get back to the packing.

Tired, in hear your pain. You are busy sifting through happy memories whilst making huge changes to your life and taking that great leap into the unknown. It sounds perfectly reasonable to cry, and feel sad, and grieve for what you are leaving behind, and I'm glad your mum has been there with you to do the same. Of course you didn't plan on things turning out this way - but you weren't in control of this any more than anyone else was.

Tomorrow though, you move on. With whichever wardrobe you choose - and DD can't say she wasn't offered a choice. At some point tomorrow, you may get a chance to ask yourself - if I could stop all this now to give it one last chance, would I do that? And if the immediate answer is yes, then you can still stop all this and tell your DH that you would like to stay and try again. If you're not sure, or you're sure that the answer is no, then start unpacking those boxes at the other end and start making a new home for you and your DCs. It doesn't have to be forever, but you do need to make your own space for now.

What's for you, won't go by you, as they say round my bit of the world. Lots of strength and un-mumsnetty hugs to you xx

Damned iPad. *I hear

Hope you are feeling better about it all today tired, it must have been so hard to do, big hugs (un-mumsnetty ones) to you.

Thistle those were lovely words for tired and I like your bit of the world saying.

Cannot hope you are ok?

Night in London was lush, lovely to catch up with friend. Head a bit sore now though.

Have a good day everyone.

Thanks Thistle and Unfair for the nice messages.

Well I moved out yesterday. It was a very difficult day, but my friends were great. One helped me assemble my bed and got the new telly working. Another came and unpacked lots of boxes. Another drove up from London with flowers, biscuits, wine and posh bread and spent most the day with me, helping with the jobs. She sussed out the central heating and switched it on and it was lovely warming up the house.

Another friend came round in the evening with her daughter and fiancé and we sat and drank prosecco in the kitchen and it felt so relaxed.

Kids each spent the day with a friend and dh took himself off out of the way.

The house looks wonderful. I had two months to plan where everything would go and everything from the family home fits in really well.

Best of all, I took my daughters there last night and they were both bowled over by how the house looked with furniture. Dd1 was smiley and said it was really homely. I felt like crying! She did want to go home after a bit but it felt like a good start.

The house will be ready for them to stay in in a few days time.

I actually had to stay at family home last night as dh had a night out in London and I had to be with the kids. It wasn't deliberate on his part, he had gig tickets bought ages ago.

Will keep you posted re how it's going and hope to be a bit more supportive of others and less self absorbed on here now I've made the break.

Well, Tired that sounds like an alright/nice day in the end, .

I just had a Long lie in and breakfast brought to me in bed, lovely, headin out for a fresh autumn walk in a minute to fully wake up.

Hope all ok.

Tired, glad things went ok for you. So pleased to hear that DD1 was so positive about the house.

We told our DCs this afternoon that we are separating. They took it quite well, we all had a team hug and explained what was going to happen, and why. They listened, we all cried, and they asked lots of really sensible questions which we both answered.

Then I went round to my parents and told them. Had a good hug with my mum, was able to explain calmly what was going on, but did have to take myself away when she called me a silly girl, I could tell that her shock would quickly give way to anger. My dad's reaction was worse than I feared though - he told me I'd broken my mother's heart and that my kids would be ruined. I left after that.

So I'm feeling quite numb now, quite washed out. I do feel relief at having told them, but I can't help feeling that there is far more upset to come. We're all just bumbling around the house as before, almost as if nothing has happened. Weird.

Oh Thistle. Really feel for you. It does sound like you handled it very well with your children. I think the openness is good, and it's fine to acknowledge that it is sad, good that you were all there. Solidarity is really important to reassure them.

Yes, it does feel odd when everything just feels like it is 'carrying on as before'. It seems unreal. I've been busy unpacking over at my new house but that feels unreal too - like it is all a game and not real life.

What you said about your parents sounds horrible, especially your dad. That's a terrible reaction, so lacking in any compassion for you. I am so sorry. You have done what you needed to do, and told them. Avoid them now. You don't need their toxicity draining you, you will need your strength to sort out things for your own family. You are not a 'silly girl' and you are not doing this lightly. They should realise how painful this is and try and make things better for you, not worse.

Big hug.

Thanks Tired. It really doesn't feel like real life, does it? I wonder when it starts to feel more 'normal'. I guess once you have actually moved in, you'll start to find your new real life.

I will be keeping out of my parents' way for now, except when I have the children with me. And even that might have to go by the wayside if they can't show support then either. I know it would have been a huge shock for them today and they were both reacting in the only way they know. I was actually expecting worse, and suspect if i went back tomorrow they'd be ready with both barrels as the initial shock will have passed.

But like you say, I've got enough to deal with right now, and I'll be supporting my own DCs in a better way. H and I seem to be pulling together on that front, long may it continue.

Hi Thistle.

I think seeing your parents with the kids can go out of the window for now, unless you can trust your parents not to give you a hard time in front of the kids, or say anything to confuse or upset them.

I'm glad that you and your husband are 'pulling together' as you say. Hope it will stay that way. Has he reacted more reasonably than you were expecting?

Mine is being OK at the moment, he is very sad though, and I feel awful. I keep wanting to beg him to come with me. I sat and had lunch with two friends who had come and helped me yesterday and I was really shocked when they both said they thought we would eventually get back together. They've been quite supportive of splitting and knew all about how unhappy I was.

I can't tell you if it feels less unreal when you've moved out. I moved most of the stuff yesterday and went over and did some unpacking today, but am cravenly staying in the family home for a second night, while my new home sits unoccupied. Pathetic, aren't I? Dc went to a youth club tonight and I wanted to see them after they got back. Then I couldn't face going over to new house, because it was dark. I know how to put the heating on and off but not how to time it for a couple of hours at a time. And I haven't taken any towels over there. And there is nobody there

I am postponing actually having to wake up there, it feels so alien. And I'm a bit scared - it's a big old house. What if it's haunted? I put all the lights on when I am there in the evenings.

Not really sounding much like a grown woman, let alone one who can be a single mum and cope with a full time uni course :(

You may be right about the parents, they are apt to put their own needs first, after all :(.

H is being very reasonable, but is also very sad. I'm sad too, of course, but I guess he's more on the back foot as I'm the one setting the pace.

How did you react when your friends said they'd expected you to get back together? Just wondering if your immediate reaction was to say "no way". Or "never say never"? I think we are so programmed as a society to expect marriage to be the optimum state, people sometimes forget all the pain you have endured in an unhappy marriage. In fact, I think sometimes we forget ourselves too.

Don't beat yourself up about not staying in the new house yet. I think you'll reach a tipping point where you know you have to just do it - and once you've managed a night you'll be fine. Would your DCs stay over with you just one night to help you? Or maybe it's easier to wait until they're ready to move permanently too? There's no rule book for this part, I'm sure. Keep the lights on if you need to! X

Morning everyone, just wanted to say well done for coming out the other side of a difficult weekend thistle and tired. thistle sorry about your oarent's reaction, I am sure a lot of my family would react the same way, which will worry me. tired you have got the difficult bit out of the way now, the actual move, I hope your first night in your new home goes well. Rather than thinking of it being an empty spooky house, think of it as a sanctuary at the moment; do whatever floats your boat there on the first night, good wine, yummy food, a steaming hot bath, crisp new book, uplifting music would be my choice.

Bad day here yesterday, can't really go into detail here right now. I have not been on the Internet much this weekend as DP has been making veiled comments about me spending time on my smartphone. So fed up of the ups and downs, don't know what is going to happen day to day, I really crave some emotional calm in my life!

Sorry about the grammar and spelling, my fingers are just too fat for an iPhone!

Very quick post to say hi to all, hoping your Monday's are going well and happy days.

cannot the journey down this beaten path is hard, I walked through very wierd and stressful places but i found it and ended up in a safe and reassuring place.