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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Is my husband controlling...?

136 replies

redrighthand · 01/09/2012 09:08

DH is 16 years older than me and recently I've started thinking some of his behaviour is controlling. It's hard to put a finger on it so I will write probably a very garbled account of some examples.

If I have to go away with work (I'm in the forces so unavoidable but only two/three times a year), he's convinced I will cheat on him. To the point where I sometimes have to drive a 150mile round trip every day so I can stay at home whilst on a course to convince him that I'm not staying away so I can meet people.
If I make plans (I'm away now and have been planning for when I get back) he says oh you have a lot planned already I was hoping to spend some time with you. I will say well can we plan something then so I have something to look forward to he says "oh well if you ever get back we will think about it then" and when my time away (four months so far) was extended by a week because there are no flights, somehow he makes me feel as though this is my fault when clearly I can do nothing about it.
A while ago I was invited to a leaving do and I mentioned it to him and he went mad, before I could even tell him that we were both invited and so I had to cancel my spot which was embarrassing but not worth the hassle to go home to him after it if I had gone.
He won't let me have a Facebook account (I don't really want one but that's not the point) and recently he wrote to me saying that he doesn't think things will ever be the same when I get back as he will always wonder whether something has happened since I have been away.

I have never cheated on him in any way, I have no desire to meet anyone else and even if I did I wouldn't have the fucking time because of the job that I do, there really is no reason for him to think this of me. I was doing the job I do now when we met so he knew what he was letting himself in for and he is ex forces so he should understand the issues...

We've only been married for two years but this is making me feel so pessimistic about the future, it's like he thinks I am totally irresistible to every man in the world and therefore I will cheat on him (like an Othello complex...?) when the reality is very different and I rarely see any of my friends because he hates me spending time away.

I love him with all my heart but it's like this is taking the shine off things. Sorry for rambling.

OP posts:
redrighthand · 01/09/2012 10:44

Yes he was in his first marriage, this sounds shit doesn't it. I know he isn't unfaithful to me though. It's like he tries to set an example to me by never going out with his friends unless we go as couples and never doing anything without me so whilst I've been away he's been a hermit saying he doesn't want to do things if I'm not there.

OP posts:
Katisha · 01/09/2012 10:45

Sounds unhealthily smothering.

IslaValargeone · 01/09/2012 10:47

What is it about the relationship that wants you you make it work so much, because to be honest I'm not sure what you are getting out of it that's positive?
If you have had issues from the beginning, you must know it's only going to deteriorate further.
Driving 150 miles to pacify him..Where will it end?

SmellsLikeTeenStrop · 01/09/2012 10:55

I really want to try to make it work but the jealousy drowns you in the end.

It's not you who is causing the relationship to fail, it's your husbands extremely controlling and jealous behaviour. You could become a recluse, never leave your home not even to go shopping and likely he'd still accuse you of cheating on him.

workshy · 01/09/2012 10:56

16 year age gap?

my ex was 14 years older than me

he didn't like me going out with friends, didn't actually stop me but would behave so badly it wasn't worth the effort so I eventually stopped going

I worked in a job that if the work wasn't done, you stayed until it was -he would be ringing me if I was 5 minutes after the time he thought I should be home to find out where I was
I turned down a promotion because it would have meant me being more flexible about hours worked and the occasional overnight stay -we talked about it and he said he would expect me home each evening, so he was expecting me to do a 4 hour drive to get to the head office for a 2 day course that was 9-5 both days???

after 13 years together I had no friends left, I was distanced from my family and I had missed opprtunities in my career

you may have seen some of the other threads I posted on saying that when things were good he treated me like a princess, put me on a pedestal -looking back I see it was all part of his controlling behaviour -he was only doing it because he loved me so much

I'm not one to say 'leave the bastard' because I know it's easier said than done and people need to make that decision for themselves but you do need to have a long hard think about is this ow you want to live, because with the best will in the world, this behaviour will not change in the long term

redrighthand · 01/09/2012 11:16

internet connection is rubbish, I keep losing my replies...

Workshy, your story sounds so close to mine. Absolutely on a pedestal like I'm some precious animal that might escape if I am out for too long. If I miss my train I get "oh I thought you would be back by 6 today" yes but I can't make the trains on time can I?

I need to reflect for the next few months. It is fucking fucking hard, especially when people look in and it's a great middle class relationship with a nice house and all of the fucking shit that you don't actually need.

OP posts:
CaptainHoratioWragge · 01/09/2012 11:24

I very rarely post on relationship threads as I feel completely out of my depth and that there are a lot more knowledgeable posters out there.

Having said that, I really wanted to post on yours because of the bit where you say "recently he wrote to me saying that he doesn't think things will ever be the same when I get back as he will always wonder whether something has happened since I have been away

This struck me as being so completely unfair to you.....he's saying that your marriage has been damaged not by anything you have done but by imaginary scenarios in his head....How can you possibly ever overcome that? It isn't even reality. It is so obviously his problem that I don't think there is anything you can do to resolve it.

I really feel for you.

Fairenuff · 01/09/2012 11:30

I really want to try to make it work but the jealousy drowns you in the end

But there really isn't anything you can do to make it work. As CaptainHoratio said, the problems are all in his head. He is the one who needs to 'make it work' by facing up to this.

All you can do is decide where your boundaries lie. How much of his nonsense are you going to pander to?

redrighthand · 01/09/2012 13:27

I think I will get home and see if things have changed (I can hear you shouting they won't have). Then I have to give him an ultimatum. I need to speak to someone about all this, probably my mum. Although we have an up and down relationship, she will stand by me regardless and we will see how things go. It's all so complicated with finances etc but I would rather be poor than in a controlling relationship for ever.

OP posts:
MrsTomHardy · 01/09/2012 13:29

Good luck OP....i think you might need it.

Men like this don't change!

Hyperballad · 01/09/2012 13:51

Hi Red, He is certainly controlling. My DP started to try to control me after about a year of being together. I tried to talk to him about it but it was like talking to a brick wall, so I ended it. I didn't believe he loved me or respected me so why would I stay with someone like him.

The two weeks that followed, he tried everyway to prove that he did live me and he was sorry. I agreed to meet with him, he had lost weight and just couldn't get his head around why I had left him. He thought we'd be together for ever.

So I found I suddenly had his attention, I explained exactly why I split with him, and the behaviour that I just would not put up with in a relationship.

I told him if he wants a stupid little girl to push around then to go find one, because I'm not that girl and will never be.

He then assured me he would change and asked for a second chance. I thought long and hard about it with the phrase a 'leopard never changes it's spots' ringing in my ears.

I decided it was worth giving him one chance. I made it clear it would be only one chance and if he couldn't change or if the controlling behaviour ever crept back then I would end it again.

Three more years on from that, we have a good relationship, he is loving and supportive and is a brilliant dad to our 8 wk baby. As time goes on we seem to find it easier to sort out our differences and I feel positive for the future.

I ended it for good and it was only because of him fighting for me back and willing to prove he could change that we are together now.

I know my sinario isn't ideal, but it's worked out ok for us so I just wanted you to know there could be a chance he can change it you'd probably only get to that by ending first.

Good luck op, one thing is for certain you don't deserve this.

wannaBe · 01/09/2012 13:57

you say he is ex forces. could his paranoya be because of this and because he knows what goes on while on deployment? It's not uncommon knowledge after all. It doesn't justify the way he behaves but it certainly goes some way to explain it :)

I would sit him down and explain to him how this makes you feel. Tell him that you're not like that, and that if he can't trust you then you can't see a future for the two of you.

MariaCallous · 01/09/2012 14:17

His behaviour screams controlling serial cheat to me. I'd have been stunned if you'd said he hadn't a history of cheating and I can't help but wonder what he's up to while your away. He's judging you based on something other than your behaviour and my gut says its his.

redrighthand · 01/09/2012 15:20

The thing is, I genuinely don't think he's cheating on me. It's almost like he's the paragon of virtue.

I totally agree that he is judging what I am doing by what was done when he was away whilst he was serving. Totally 100% correct, he says that to me "I know what goes on, I know how they look at you" etc. And whilst I agree there are a significant number of women who do muck about while they are away, I can't get it over to him that I'm not one of them.

Hyperballad, that was really brave, really amazing and well done. I will really think about what you did.

OP posts:
LapsedPacifist · 01/09/2012 19:58

Red, what an awful situation to find yourself in. The 'frog in boiling water' analogy fits your case perfectly though Sad.

Your ultimatum to him has to include counselling (if you are going to try to save your marriage) - joint if possible, but definately something that will address his appalling paranoia and jealousy.

You DO realise, don't you, that his treatement of you is completely insane?

leguminous · 01/09/2012 20:12

You can't win with this man. You can't. You go to huge lengths to appease him - the 150 mile round trips, cancelling your place at a do he decided you shouldn't go to, staying off Facebook, all of which are COMPLETELY insane requirements - and he still doesn't trust you. He never will.

If he can't trust a woman in the forces because he "knows what goes on" then why the hell did he marry one? Because he reckoned that he could browbeat you into submission, that if he kept you under his boot then he could control you. Nobody who saw their partner as an equal would behave like he does.

Counselling and an absolute ultimatum is the very least you need. Personally, apart from the fear that his controlling behaviour and rages would escalate, I don't think I could respect a man like this enough to want to stay in a relationship with him. What the hell does he think you are? A child, to be told what to do? His property, to be kept hold of at all costs?

AttilaTheMeerkat · 01/09/2012 20:15

Joint counselling is never recommended in controlling relationships because controlling behaviour is abusive behaviour.

Counselling for your own self alone is a good idea.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 01/09/2012 20:21

« Charmers and Con Artists (my Ex was a ?Charmer??)Let?s Talk About Reactive Abuse »
Why Couples Counseling in Abusive Relationships Doesn?t Work

If you are in any type of intimate relationship where there is abuse: verbal, emotional, psychological (ie: gaslighting, crazymaking), sexual, or physical ? and the abuser suggests ?couples? or ?partners? counseling as a means to try to ?work things out? or as an ultimatum to stay in the relationship ? DON?T fall for it.

Couples counseling does NOT work where there is abuse in a relationship because it does not address the issue. Get your own individual, separate counseling to help deal with the abuse. If there is abuse, then abuse is the ONLY issue ? not ?communication? problems or any other type of mutual interaction problem, so couples counseling will not address this situation properly ? and may in fact make it worse.

Most abusers would rather end a relationship ? no matter what the situation is ? than take responsibility for their abusive behavior once confronted with it. It?s rare that they ever do anything to change, or look at themselves as being whatsoever at fault in driving their relationships to destruction.

The problem is, an abusive person will only look at THEIR feelings and SOMEONE ELSE?S behavior ? instead of looking at SOMEONE ELSE?S feelings and THEIR behavior (as Lundy Bancroft describes in the excerpt below).

When confronted, one of two things will usually happen: They will escalate their abuse ? or they will end it ? claiming that their partner(s) are being ?unreasonable?, ?too sensitive? or ?twisting things around?. They will claim THEMSELVES to be the victim.

The abusive person will claim that other people are trying to make them ?walk on eggshells? (projection) if they?re asked to recognize or respect anyone else?s feelings or needs. But, it is actually the abuser who chronically causes others to feel that way ? with their constant criticism, name-calling, insults, condescension, humiliation, and blame. No one in their relationship(s) can do anything right in their eyes except them, and others will often try to modify their behavior in order to try to avoid the abuser?s constant devaluation and criticism. This is an exercise in futility, however.

?Walking on eggshells? is how an abuser often describes any request to recognize or respect someone else?s feelings besides his/her own. (ie: ?I?m not going to walk on eggshells around you!?) For most people who posses the ability to empathize normally, empathy isn?t an issue. For an abuser, it?s a lot of work because it?s not something they?re used to having to do ? and it?s a skill they aren?t much interested in. When their partners express hurt because of the abuser?s behavior, the abuser will claim the partner is just ?oversensitive?. The fact is, the abuser is the one who needs to develop some sensitivity.

Abusers are often narcissists or sociopaths or simply have very strong narcissistic or sociopathic tendencies, primarily marked by a complete lack of empathy towards their partners (beyond the initial romance stage), or at least a marked inability or unwillingness to recognize or respect anyone?s feelings or needs other than their own.

And this goes far beyond any ?communication? problem or ?incompatibility? issue. The issue ? is the abuse.

When abusive people go to couples therapy they simply learn to be more skilled abusers and many of them are quite skilled to begin with. Most are highly intelligent. My own ex was a member of Mensa, in fact.

Couples therapy often will only reinforce abusive behavior and they become even more slick and condescending and manipulative with their tactics. That?s because couples therapy typically deals with abuse as if it were a mutual or communications issue ? and it isn?t.

Below is a GREAT write-up by Lundy Bancroft (author of ?Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men?) about why couples counseling does NOT work in abusive relationships ? and my own experience bears this out.

An abuser should go into a specialized abuser program and the target / victim should seek his/her own separate counseling. I?ll warn that most abusers won?t stoop to such a thing ? it would mean they have to admit they have personality problems/faults that have destroyed many of their relationships, and they?d have to be willing to undergo YEARS of tough self-evaluation and work to change ? and chances of that are slim to none.

It?s much easier for them to just find another target for their abuse.

Anyway, here it is for those who asked:

_

Extract from ?Why Does He Do That? by Lundy Bancroft
The more psychotherapy a client of mine has participated in, the more impossible I usually find it is to work with him.

The highly ?therapized? abuser tends to be slick, condescending, and manipulative. He uses the psychological concepts he has learned to dissect his partner?s flaws and dismiss her perceptions of abuse.
He takes the responsibility for nothing that he does, he moves in a world where there are only unfortunate dynamics, miscommunications, symbolic acts. He expects to be rewarded for his emotional openness, handled gingerly because of his ?vulnerability?, colluded with in skirting the damage he has done, and congratulated for his insight.
Many years ago, a violent abuser in my program shared the following with us: ?From working in therapy on my issues about anger toward my mother, I realized that when I punched my wife, it wasn?t really her I was hitting. It was my mother!? He sat back, ready for us to express our approval of his self-awareness. My colleague peered through his glasses at the man, unimpressed by his revelation. ?No,? he said, ?you were hitting your wife.?
I have yet to meet an abuser who has made any meaningful and lasting changes in his behavior toward female partners through therapy, regardless of how much ?insight? ? most of it false ? that he may have gained. The fact is that if an abuser finds a particularly skilled therapist and if the therapy is especially successful, when he is finished he will be A HAPPY, WELL-ADJUSTED ABUSER ? good news for him, perhaps, but not such good news for his partner. Psychotherapy can be very valuable for the issues it is devised to address, but partner abuse is not one of them; an abusive man needs to be in a specialized program.
_

Also on couples therapy:

Attempting to address abuse through couples therapy is like wrenching a nut the wrong way; it just gets even harder to undo than it was before.

Couples therapy is designed to tackle issues that are mutual. It can be effective for overcoming barriers to communication, for untangling the childhood issues that each partner brings to the relationship, or for building intimacy.

But you can?t accomplish any of these goals in the context of abuse. There can be no positive communication when one person doesn?t respect the other and strives to avoid equality.

You can?t take the leaps of vulnerability involved in working through early emotional injuries while you are feeling emotionally unsafe ? because you ARE emotionally unsafe. And if you succeed in achieving greater intimacy with your abusive partner, you will soon get hurt even worse than before because greater closeness means greater vulnerability for you.

Couples counseling sends the abuser and the abused woman the wrong message. The abuser learns that his partner is ?pushing his buttons? and ?touching him off? and that she needs to adjust her behavior to avoid getting him so upset. This is precisely what he has been claiming all along.
Change in abusers comes only from the reverse process, from completely stepping out of the notion that his partner plays any role in causing his abuse of
her.

An abuser also has to stop focusing on his feelings and his partner?s behavior, and look instead at her feelings and his behavior. Couples counseling allows him to stay stuck in the former. In fact, to some therapists, feelings are all that matters, and reality is more or less irrelevant. In this context, a therapist may turn to you and say, ?But HE feels abused by YOU too.?
Unfortunately, the more an abusive man is convinced that his grievances are more or less equal to yours, the less the chance that he will ever overcome his attitudes.

The message to you from couples counseling is: ?You can make your abusive partner behave better toward you by changing how YOU behave toward HIM.? Such a message is, frankly, fraudulent.

ABUSE is NOT caused by bad relationship dynamics. You can?t manage your partner?s abusiveness by changing your behavior, but he wants you to think that you can. He says or leads you to believe, that ?if you stop doing the things that upset me, and take better care of my needs, I will become a nonabusive partner.? It never materializes. And even if it worked, even if you could stop his abusiveness by catering to his every whim, is that a healthy way to live? If the way you behave in the relationship is a response to the threat of abuse, are you a voluntary participant?

If you have issues you would like to work on with a couples counselor, wait until your partner has been COMPLETELY ABUSE-FREE for two years. Then you might be able to work on some of the problems that truly are mutual ones.

Fairenuff · 01/09/2012 22:35

He doesn't think much of you red does he. He thinks the only way he can be sure that you won't cheat on him is to not let you out of his sight. He doesn't believe you when you say you don't want anyone else. He thinks he knows your mind better than you do. It's almost like keeping a dog on a very short lead. Control, control, control.

I also think counselling for yourself would be a good idea. But not with him.

leguminous · 01/09/2012 23:28

Apologies for my phrasing - counselling for the OP alone, for support and perspective, is what I meant and what I should have said.

janelikesjam · 02/09/2012 01:23

Its not a good thing to be scared to talk in any relationship. The controlling behaviour that you have described has an "unhinged" quality. I think you will need to seriously consider your options, sorry Sad. Do you feel safe to make a free choice, I am just a bit concerned.

joblot · 02/09/2012 08:05

attila that's such a useful post, thank you.

Op- good luck extricating yourself. You so deserve to get out and. be happy

redrighthand · 02/09/2012 15:04

Thank you all so much for your advice. I have sent a letter to my best friend explaining some things to her as I will need help through this and it starts with admitting his behaviour to other people.

Today I got a letter telling me (I had the day off yesterday for the first time in three weeks) that he can't understand why I'm here because if they needed me that much I wouldn't have the day off. I can't even begin to answer that. It's not my fault I'm here.

Thank you again, the seed has been planted and is being watered.

OP posts:
BabylonPI · 02/09/2012 15:06

Remember you will get lots and lots of support here Red, as much as you need whenever x

tribpot · 02/09/2012 15:23

He can't understand why people get days off when they're on deployments for months at a time? Hmm

He sounds like the worst kind of 'reformed' cheater, where everything he does and says has to be about how virtuous he is now, and how he never puts himself in temptation's way and he doesn't go on Facebook and .. and ..

I agree with you, btw, that trying to tackle this from your posting is just going to be complicated and fraught with misunderstanding. Unfortunately I think there's a risk, though, that if things are okay when you'll get home you'll end up not wanting to spoil the time together .. and then you're away again .. and so the cycle begins. (I know you're not away as frequently as all that but even so). I think he is bound to assume it is about you having been unfaithful whenever you do it, because that seems to be all he thinks about.

Driving 150 miles a day .. that's just so wrong.