I am a shrew but is DH an arse? (long)

[braketime]

Not sure what to do. Yesterday we went to the Olympics to see the diving. Long wait to the awards ceremony, so suggested we leave early and go look round the park (DD lolling around complaining she was hot). Kids fought on and off all day and I did snap at them. When we get home at long last, I start getting them ready for bed. Yell at DD not to get out of the bath to show her dad her blister but to get back in and finish off first. DH then snaps, throws washing basket on ground, calls me a bitch in front of the kids and then says I ruined his day by leaving the Aquatic centre before the awards ceremony. I'm completely flummoxed but apparently he'd already told me earlier that this was what he wanted to do and I'd put him in a bad position by asking to leave (and then clearly sulked about it for the rest of the day).

Later on I tell him it was unacceptable behaviour, he then says I ruined his life by having a second child and we should separate and take one kid each as this is the only way to stop them fighting. Refuses to apologise and says his life is being ruined by the negativity around the children. Then tells me that i ruined his day by insisting we leave the awards ceremony. I told him I would have stayed if he'd said so but he didn't - I can't see that I did wrong but according to him it is all my fault and I should have remembered that he'd said before he wanted to watch it and I'd put him in an awkward position.

We do fight a lot, we snap at the kids a lot, they fight a lot. We are a disharmonious family. We could probably do with parenting lessons. But this is extreme surely?

DH always drags up old ground, criticises my parenting in front of the kids as says I yell too much. But the other weekend he threw a cup of water in DD's face as she was rude to him when he asked her what she wanted to drink (she said "whatever"). No apology to any of us, I just had to take a screaming DD upstairs to bed.

I'm sure if I were a better parent then life would be better. But do I have a right to expect better behaviour from him. Both DD and DS challenging - DS constantly in trouble at school (10), DD (7) very dramatic and high-maintenance at home (always screaming!). We got an educational psychologist to see DS as the school were up in arms - more money out the door. I am worried that DH will walk out as he finds the kids unbearable, to be honest I couldn't afford to live with the kids on my own. Should I just bite my tongue and get on with life?

And he sounds like he needs anger management tbh.

I shout sometimes but it's not a regular thing despite the fact I am at home with 3 kids (school holidays) and they have bickered or been annoying. I find that yelling is pretty ineffective unless the child is far away and needs to be warned about at approaching car or something urgent.

Children's Centres run free parenting courses. The Centres themselves are usually aimed at under 5s but I went on a course for under 10s.

Have you read any parenting books? I can recommend 123 Magic as a firm but calmer approach to patenting and discipline.

You can't change your h but you can change yourself. As the others said I bet your children change for the better if you work on yourself (especially your dd) because they will see you modelling how to communicate better.

It's a shame that your dh is unlikely to work on himself as your son sounds like a younger version of his Dad.

Do people at work really never annoy you?

Or do they annoy you but you use more socially acceptable methods to deal with them like biting your tongue, taking deep breaths etc?

I ask because you sound pretty volatile too?

I was brought up in a yelling family, at times it was v scary and my siblings and I often felt anxious. Seeing parents lose control, worrying about when it'd happen again. I almost never shout at the DC and yes I do judge people who do because it has bad effects.

People are saying yelling isn't normal. I don't know about this. I am not trying to excuse it but in my childhood it was (in my family and in others). Maybe we have higher standards now? That would be good, if it means happier children. But how do we get there?

I thought everybody yelled too.
People who don't - please stop telling the OH to 'just stop' - it isn't as simple as that - it really really really isn't. So it's NOT helpful.

For those who asked what worked:
I grew up in a family where there was lots of yelling. It was learned behaviour for me. Through a wonderful therapist, I learned what my schemas are and the reasons why I came to behave as I did. It was hard to do this - and painful as I felt very disloyal to parents who are no longer here to put 'their side'.

I learned that I needed to be able to express what my feelings and needs are. What was happening was that I had found a way to clamp down on them-not even acknowledging they were there, even to myself - until they exploded in rages that surprised me as much as anyone else. I learned to spot my 'bothered' stage and deal with it instead of squashing it. It took a short while to be able to do this but I can now.

This works when the anger management techniques and the 'counting to 10' stuff didn't. I meet my needs before the rage because I'm aware of how I feel and I do something about it. I wasn't before.

I do remember the therapist asking my DH how he felt when I shouted. I'll never forget what he said or the look on his face and I don't feel I can share it sorry. It didn't make me able to control my temper in itself but it was an extremely powerful motivator. Until then, I had always had a shout, felt better and thought the air was cleared and there's an end to it. It's not like that though.

FWIW going to the GP and saying straight out, I think my son has ASD traits and I'd like a referral to the paed worked and like turned around from then as regards being able to understand him and meet his needs.

that's 'life' not 'like' in that last sentence

FussArse, brilliant post. Thank you for sharing that.

Until then, I had always had a shout, felt better and thought the air was cleared and there's an end to it. It's not like that though.

I think that's really important. If you're a non-shouter then being shouted at leaves an echo of fear rolling through the rest of your life.

Your children are needy because they are feeling insecure. Especially the youngest, if she feels that her father didn't want her.In an extreme way it could be that they are scared you don't love them. I know that mine are more 'needy' when they sense I am stressed or unhappy.
I think that throwing a glass of water in a child's face was a dreadful thing to do and anyone who did that to my child would be sleeping on the pavement until they had attended anger management classes.
Can't you try to enjoy your children a bit more? Mine are infuriating and I have been known to raise my voice, but they are so much fun inbetween times.

Wrote a long and supportive post, but it disappeared.

In brief: I don't judge you for yelling, or for not doing lego. Am sorry that some people on here have been disapproving and unsupportive.

Think you need to identify all the problems and deal with them one at a time, your son's problems, your DH's and yours.

Take time for yourself and take time to spend with each child on their own. This is really important I think.

It's not easy to stop yelling. I am not doing well at trying to stop. FussArse, what kind of counselling did you do?

A couple of ideas which may help, although they sound a bit simple: doing Yoga, and reading Calmer Happier Easier Parenting.

Mostly, I just want to send you some support. You are in a difficult situation and came here for advice.

"I lack the self discipline not to yell because I do care whether eg we get to school on time."

yeh i get that - "come on it's late we going to be late " etc... once in a while...but if happens each and every day then you need to look at changing the routine. getting ready earlier. packing up as much as you can the night before. etc.

what can you change ?
look at the
antecedents - what happens before (you runnng late for school - so tomorrow you get up earlier... )
behaviour - yelling - how can you change that ? deep breaths count to 10 etc
consequence - what is consequence of the behaviour eg everyone is unhappy and whether by changing a and b you can get a different consequence

I agree h has lots of issues. but op cant change the h ....only he can.

maybe one person has to take charge to alter the dynamic here?

break the cycle?
then if h doesnt change - he has to go...

"I am not a patient person, I am an angry person, and my kids annoy me hence I yell. At work nobody annoys me so I don't yell."

Surely some work colleagues annoy you at least some of the time. You don't yell at them because there would be consequences. You yell at your children with abandon because they are small & helpless, so there are no consequences (you think)

"Yelling is an indulgence, it is a lack of self control - I know that, but I lack the self discipline not to yell"

Find that self-discipline. Think of your children as people, like your colleagues at work. Talk to them like you talk to strangers on the street - with respect.

"because I do care whether eg we get to school on time"

That's rubbish, and you know it. Or do you really think parents who don't yell on a regular basis don't care about getting to school on time

FussA, interesting what you said about mild ASD, because that's going through my mind too.

I think it's possible to have one or more ASD traits without being full on ASD as well, though the professionals seem to prefer either/or diagnoses.

You can't make a diagnosis from a forum post and no-one would seriously try - but a little boy who seems to be a control freak with social skills problems is not necessarily, solely, reacting to home life. It's a question of how the control thing comes out, and the social skills.

For ASD I'd expect to see a little obsessiveness about order and how things are done, and temper if it doesn't happen as predicted. Social skills ? things like not realising what is appropriate in certain situations, or not having much empathy with others.

For the little girl, I've seen a pattern like this ?demanding at home, quite controlling, but hard-working at school and (this is key) very keen to look good in public. Only an observation though.

With the DH?something out of the ordinary there. He's acting more like one of your children, OP, than a partner.

With the bath/washing basket incident, instead of joining you in (preferably gently) disciplining your child, he calls you a filthy name in front of her and throws a tantrum. Says you ruined his day by missing the awards ceremony? Now I'm presuming he didn't say 'Darling, I DO want to see the awards ceremony, let's go back' but assumed you would remember? Then got upset because you didn't?

This isn't really normal behaviour for an adult man. Even if you heard and dismissed him (and you didn't, apparently), a typical adult man would, frankly, remind you and assert himself calmly at the time.

Similarly the water incident ? a good parent would say 'that was rude, I don't want to hear that again' and offer a consequence if appropriate. And both parents would agree on that. Water in the face?? That's a child having a tantrum again - and abusive. A very unhealthy parenting environment for real children.

It's rather worrying that he doesn't take responsibility for his anger either.

For you brake, nothing to add here except that I recognise the 'I don't do lego' thing from my own childhood. It was not a problem. The overall experience is what matters.

Sorry that was long, and I am not contradicting what others have said, but trying to offer a few other thoughts.

The thing that really stands out from FussArse's story is the bit about addressing her needs. There are 4 people in the family who are not having their needs met:

adults getting loving support from each other to meet the children's needs;
children needing a calm and respectful environment

But there are other red herring "needs" too that can be discounted (for now), like the H feeling that he needs to see the awards ceremony (sorry, adults don't get to set the attention spans of children on days out) and needs his second child not to exist (too late, buddy).

you can't male your 'dh' better. Only he can do that; but if he doesn't admit he has a problem and won't go to counselling, he ain't going to

How he behaves is his responsibility
How you behave is yours
How your kids behave is a direct reflection of your marriage

If I were you I would seperate from him. It's easy to say, once you are out the other end

Perhaps you might find it useful to remember how you feel when someone yells at you, then times that by 100 and you may get an idea of how your children feel (and they love you and can't leave). Or you could ask them how they feel when you yell and shout at them, or ask them to draw a picture of you shouting. All of these things will help you to see how awful life must be for them. Though TBH it doesn't sound as though you or your husband like your children very much and I think that is the main problem.

braketime knows shouting is not good!

Yes.

I agree with your thread title.

Please try to stop yelling. it is one of the things that DH tends to do that shreds my nerves, makes the kids stressy and miserable and doesn't actually help the situation in most cases. Yes, I will confess there are times (such as school run) when there are time pressures when I shout - but IME it doesn't help and it makes me feel better very briefly.

braketime I would like to come back to your original question (rather than coming you judge your parenting methods).

You asked Should I just bite my tongue and get on with life? Your OP is also full of self blame (I shouldn't be shouting so much), that so many posters have happily jumped on.

I have to say, NO you should not bite your tongue and accept the situation as it is.
NO you should not accept full responsibility of the issues with both dcs because they are BOTH your responsibility.
NO the reason you have so many problems in your relationship isn't only because you are shouting and nothing else.
NO you have not ruined your DH life by having another child (I am sure he had agreed to it?)
And NO you have not ruined his day but asking to go to the park before the end. It seems to me that you took the dcs needs into account at that time and proposed a solution to the problem (I personally wouldn't have taken my 2 dcs to the Olympics. They wouldn't have been able to stay still for so long). But he could have proposed another solution, reminded you he wanted to stay, it was important for him.

For your marriage to carry on, you will need both to do some work. Learn to communicate better, look at responsibilities within the family unit, acceptable behaviours etc... (I am not even going into the childcare issue here). You also both need to take a bit of distance and learn to relax a bit. Family life and dcs seem to have put a lot of strain on both of you.
Counselling (on your own or as a couple), anger management can be some solutions.
You could also try and see if you could have a bit of time of (on your own) to recharge your batteries and try to have a clearer head.
Some people have suggested parenting course to ease the issue of the dcs. I am guessing that this isn't the only issue you have so it might help (and might be good for the dcs) but I don't think it would solve your relationship issue.

But you will have to do something as staying in this situation will not be healthy neither for the dcs, nor for yurself.

fussarse - "I grew up in a family where there was lots of yelling. It was learned behaviour for me."

Ditto with DH. My family were not shouters, hence every time he bellows my shoulder tense up and my stress levels increase. I really wouldn't think I am overstating it to say that his behaviour contributed to my anxiety and depression. It isn't normal, it isn't a sensible response to anything but the most serious situations. He and I are working on it currently and I am trying to persuade him to see a therapist too - shouting is just one of the bits of baggage his parents dumped on him.

And what lady said too. Your shouting is only one issue. it just happens to be that resonates with me.

Callisto, it doesn't sound you like your children very much :( What an awful thing to say :(

I hear someone who is at the end of her tether and is struggling with her parenting and her relationship. I hear someone who needs help. I am struggling to see how that sort of comment is going to help the OP.

Lady - it may be awful, but that is what is coming across from all of the OP's posts. She doesn't seem that bothered tbh.

What stands out to me is that you said that your parents ignored you all the time. (Amateur Psychology disclaimer) That says to me that your needs, your inner child, is still protesting and angry. It also suggests that you haven't experienced how selfless one has to be as a parent and therefore you don't do lego, get annoyed, shout etc. I have no advice as to what you should do with your husband however I strongly recommend that you undertake some counselling to make yourself feel better and heal your issues.

I always remember, every time I want to strangle my child, that I'm building a person and that I have to put all the right bits in and treat it right so that it works properly. That sounds cold but I hope you know what I mean!

There's loads of books about the importance of raising children in an emotionally intelligent and kind way and give practical tips. For instance when you say you don't like to play cards because it makes your DD cry... well, some therapists/authors would advise that means you actually do need to play cards so that she can learn to handle those feelings with someone she loves (you) and overcome the crying.

I'm not a perfect parent but I hope that these few things that I try to remember can help you. I feel like you need some understanding too though, it sounds like you are not enjoying life as it is.