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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Original poster

Please. Somebody.

150 replies

ohgodwhatjusthappened · 01/07/2012 14:59

DH hit toddler DS. So hard it has bruised and left a mark. On his face.

He has never done this before, ever. DS was just screaming and he lost it.

He is an amazing father and husband. He's crying and saying he will leave if I want him to.

I am in shock. I have name changed btw, regular. Please somebody help me. Please.

OP posts:

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 01/07/2012 20:56

Offred... For those who hit their children - once or multiple times - whether a bruise is left or not has nothing to do with the parent's level of restraint, it comes down to whether a body has more or less of a tendency to bruise and where on the body the blow is struck. My post was in response to one further up the thread that I perceived as 'smug' where the poster said that she had struck her child but not enough to bruise them.

That is what I meant by 'luck' so will you please get down from your hobbyhorse.

Offred · 01/07/2012 21:03

That is just actual crap lying witch and completely contrary to the beliefs the law was built on. Even though I fundamentally disagree with the current law and would support a ban. It is not luck whether the child bruises, you have to hit them hard enough to bruise them a light open handed slap on the legs is NEVER going to bruise and that is really all the law allows. ANYTHING that is borderline may or may not bruise is beyond the law. It really pains me that we are still having these conversations about our children. Really really pains me and you look just plain nasty with that hobbyhorse comment. I'm very sorry if you think children suffering bruises from adults hitting them is not something concerning.

doggiemumma · 01/07/2012 21:06

Really hope the OP is OK that the little one is tucked up in bed and that they are having a serious talk about what should happen next.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 01/07/2012 21:29

Offred... Maybe so but you're making judgements on assumptions based on nothing other than what the OP has posted. You have no idea of the history or relationship but you ought to have gleaned that the OP was in a state of shock, really confused and upset. She needed support.

You've missed the point about the bruising but no matter, I'm not going to continue to argue it with you. You can make all the assumptions about me you like, I'm not vulnerable and I don't care what a random on a chatboard extrapolates. The OP is vulnerable.

You've posted repeatedly on this thread without any further input from the OP. That tells me all I need to know really. The OP needed support in order to process further what she was going to do. I hope she has some RL support because, in her place, I wouldn't return to this thread.

Offred · 01/07/2012 21:45

I don't think the op needs support to minimise what has happened to her child actually. That's what I think you are doing.

There is no need to know any back story or circumstances. The only thing that matters is the two year old child was hit in the face hard enough to bruise by his father in his home. There are no circumstances or further informations that could make that any different or any better, there is no need to know any more than that.

I haven't missed the point about the bruising at all. If you hit a child and they bruise there is no bad luck involved in that you have hit them and they have bruised and you need to take responsibility for that fact as an adult not say "oh well it is bad luck". The posters talking about physical discipline perhaps are not using a method which could possibly result in a bruise. You don't know. The point they were trying to make is that using physical discipline that bruises is unacceptable to them even though they use physical discipline.

I get that you don't want me to say what I'm saying. You don't get to censor me I'm afraid. I happen to think it is very abnormal to be so cold about a child being assaulted and deeply unhelpful for the child to have the other parent helped to minimise what has happened. Tempting though that may be.

doggiemumma · 01/07/2012 21:51

I don't think anyone is minimising what has happened, but we just don't know the details we weren't there. Hopefully the OP and her DH are sorting things out, one way or another. I certainly don't think that the OP is minimalising, just trying to make sense of things. I don't KNOW what she should do actually i just hope they can sort things out and that the little boy is safe.

Jomato · 01/07/2012 22:02

I think there has been a lot of minimising by several posters. We don't need to know the details in order to be clear that hitting a child hard enough to mark is not acceptable. From her earlier posts the OP clearly doesn't think it is but is rightly extremely distressed and is clearly emotionally vulnerable. Encouraging her to think this is a normal part of parenting is potentially dangerous. That is why I was so shocked by people playing down the seriousness of this situation to the OP, she needs to take it seriously and as parents they need to take action. I hope they can do that and keep their family together however the primary concern is the immediate safety of her child.

doggiemumma · 01/07/2012 22:06

I totally agree jomato - it is absolutely unacceptable, but i think the knee jerk reaction to make him leave the house isn't neccesarily appropriate, it might be, but we don't know the details and the OP probably has more important things to do than to keep up posted. If the child is safely in bed (Or better having a sleep over with grandparents etc) and the OP and her DH are discussing the situation, then that is surely better than just making him leave. It may be that he does have to leave anyway, but surely the first thing to do is talk. By talk i mean talk - if he can't do that, then yes, he should leave.

Jomato · 01/07/2012 22:17

You are right that there are no definite answers to what is the right thing to do but from professional experience I would always suggest that a parent in these circumstances needs to make sure that not only does she keep her child safe but that she is able to demonstrate that she has done this. Sending child to grandparents would be an option but could potentially be perceived as chosing to keep the man at home over the child. I'm not saying that is how I would look at it but it could be viewed in that way and I have heard judgements like that being made by professionals dealing with situations like this.
Apart from that I really didn't feel from the OPs posts that she would be able to do that, she sounded extremely distressed and in need of space herself to process.

Midwife99 · 01/07/2012 22:18

I wish everyone would stop arguing, OP needs sympathy right now not a bun fight! She's in shock!

EmilieFloge · 02/07/2012 09:27

'Offred... For those who hit their children - once or multiple times - whether a bruise is left or not has nothing to do with the parent's level of restraint, it comes down to whether a body has more or less of a tendency to bruise and where on the body the blow is struck. My post was in response to one further up the thread that I perceived as 'smug' where the poster said that she had struck her child but not enough to bruise them.'

I completely disagree, but then I would of course because I'm just lucky...and smug.

Restraint has a great deal to do with it. We know how hard we have to hit to leave a bruise, or not leave a bruise and something stops most of us from going there.

I'm not smug about having smacked any child in my care and to suggest that is just a stupid and arrogant thing to say.

I was commenting on the fact that there are degrees of force available to us all and to leave a bruise generally requires a greater degree of force than I would consider acceptable. That doesn't mean that I consider my own past actions acceptable, but had I managed to bruise my child I would have found that far, far less acceptable.

You appear to be perceiving things in my post that are not present.

MakesCakesWhenStressed · 02/07/2012 09:43

I think actually, offred, that lying was saying that someone could actually hit a child pretty hard and yet they might not mark, so using whether or not they mark as a guideline of 'acceptable' force is just ridiculous.

OpheliasWeepingWillow · 02/07/2012 09:55

I would have called the police if this had happened in front of me

IawnCont · 02/07/2012 09:58

Completely agree with offred and completely shocked at some responses on here. Most of us, as parents, have lost control. I remember smacking my son once, because I just lost it, and 5 years later I feel awful about it.
But this man hit a toddler, hard, in the face. Because the toddler was crying. That shows a loss of control that's dangerous. Children cry: They test our patience. This man will lose his temper again- Can the OP trust that he will be more restrained?
I hate the implication that an adult hitting a toddler hard in the face is somehow a normal, if unpleasant, part of parenting. It really isn't.
Hope you're okay OP x

DamselInTornDress · 02/07/2012 10:05

IawnCont, could your son trust you wouldn't do that again to him?

You go easy on yourself for your abuse but condemn the OPs DP for his abuse, the difference being where the smack landed and the extent of bruising?

Sheesh!

piestomake · 02/07/2012 10:18

I am shocked that yet again some posters make this a male issue. It doesn't take much strength to smother a toddler, or twist their arm or pinch their ear or any of the other nasty things that both men and women are capable of! Many women are convicted of child abuse and have their children taken away. Stop being so blinkered!!

IawnCont · 02/07/2012 10:18

I think that there is a difference between smacking a toddler lightly (he didn't actually register it, he was so into the tantrum) and hitting a child hard in the face, yes.
And yes, my son can trust me not to do it again, because that is when I learned that I should walk away if I feel myself getting annoyed. Maybe the OP's H will learn a similar lesson- I didn't say he wouldn't, I just asked the question.
"You go easy on yourself for your abuse" Not sure where you got that idea from. I haven't forgiven myself for it.

Offred · 02/07/2012 10:45

Makescakes- it is ridiculous that any force can be used on a child but it is not ridiculous to use a mark as the guideline as I was trying to explain. The only way you can guarantee you will not leave a mark is by using the lightest of force and being in control. That is why the law talks about marks. If you are the kind of parent who uses physical force and that uses force which may or may not leave a mark (including a red mark after the hitting), then you are beyond the law. It is so as to avoid the subjectivity of "well I didn't hit very hard she just bruises easily".

AnyFucker · 02/07/2012 11:09

perhaps it is simply "good luck" then that a blow made forcefully enough on a vulnerable toddler's face to leave a bruise didn't also fracture his skull/break a cheekbone/give him a rebound head injury/split his lip/knock his teeth out

Oh Lady Luck, we have much to be thankful for

insancerre · 02/07/2012 11:22

op needs some proper impartial advice with regards to what she should/can do next
the NSPCC can give free advice
0808 800 5000
or the samaritans
08457 90 90 90

OpheliasWeepingWillow · 02/07/2012 14:10

Call. The. Police.

Appalled at all the apologists on this thread.

A tiny child has been BEATEN FFS, by someone he trusts and loves.

Jesus...

Midwife99 · 02/07/2012 14:27

Are you ok OP?

Proudnscary · 02/07/2012 14:44

Gosh OP I hope you are ok - I understand why this thread has become heated and arguments broken out as it's so emotive but hope you are getting RL or PM support??

Fwiw, I once pushed my dd over out of absolute fury. I pushed her hard and she fell forward on her face and was very upset (not hurt - thank God as it was on carpet). I apologised and said that no matter how badly behaved she'd been that I was in the wrong, it was wrong to hit or push a child, that I felt very sorry and sad and ashamed. Oh dear am crying, just thinking about it . I guess if someone had seen it they could and should have called the police. I'd have accepted that but I also believe I am not abusive or aggressive. I just had a terrible red mist moment. I don't know where that leaves me in this argument. Dd was about 5 btw. I've not smacked her or pushed or anything in the three years since then.

piestomake · 03/07/2012 15:02

OP hope you are ok?

to back up what i said earlier , a report from the US department of health and human resources in 2002 found that child fatalities by perpetrator relationship were caused by : mother alone 32.6%, mother and father 19.2% , father alone 16.6%, mother and other 9.1 %, father & other 1.4%

just look at today's news that awful woman jailed for 30 years for killing her two children in spain.

IawnCont · 04/07/2012 12:02

Hope you're okay OP x

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