I want DH to be tougher with me

[bananacrepe]

I know I may get flame for this. I know I should be thanking my lucky stars - and I am, but at the same time I want things to change.

Since I confessed to my affair two months ago DH hasn't shown he is angry with me at all. He is hugely hurt, I know that, and I am deeply sorry and regret it immensely. We are both aware of why it happened and I've been completely honest with him. I am finding it hard to let go of OM (who, incidentally, now pretty much hates me), partly because he seems to want to refuse to acknowledge his part in everything, and can't deal with the guilt, wanting to live on cloud 9 with his new gf (I still believe there was an overlap between me and her. She of course doesn't know this). He is also refusing to answer any questions DH has for him. I think he wants us both to disappear.

Anyway... One of the reasons for the affair - and in saying this I am NOT in any way blaming DH for it - my actions were and are my own responsibility - was because I felt (though I didn't realise this at the time) the relationship was unequal. OM challenged me in a way DH never has. I have suffered from depression and anxiety on and off for a few years, and DH has dealt with that by trying to keep me a calm as possible, which basically meant giving into me. I never really realised how much this was happening until the affair.

I have spoken to him about it but he is still doing it. I am trying hard to be better, to do more for him, to be less irritable and calmer, and I'm getting there. But if something isn't done or I he disagrees with me I wish to goodness he would say so! I don't want him walking on eggshells. I need to know that if I do something to upset him he will tell me. I have found myself pushing him in the past just to get a reaction. I realise this is my problem, and I am working on it, but equally I want him to be happy and I want him to say if I've done something that makes him unhappy. I am trying my best and making sure I'm not doing anything to annoy him or upset him but I need it to be more equal or it won't work. I don't want to be the boss. I don't want to be in charge. I want to be a team now that I have this chance (that I really didn't deserve) to make a go of things.

Yep - I'm keen to avoid him sitting wondering so I try to tell him straight away what's bugging me. It's one thing that I didn't used to be good at that he asked me (after much pressing!) to improve, which I have.

Maybe its all the time you spent manipulating his feelings? He has no clue what's going on with you.
I really don't understand tbh. You said he has never communicated, then that he did. Now he didn't, then he did but it wasn't enough and OM was better at it and dh doesn't communicate again.
Its 2 months, ONLY 2 months. You need to give him time and space. He is probably bored of you either trying to force a reaction or wanting him to police you.
I think you thinks he has you on a pedestal, is it possible he doesn't communicate because he has had enough? Maybe he feels he can't leave because he cheated and you stayed.
It really doesn't sound like a healthy and\ or happy relationship. I'll repeat what I said earlier. 9 years, 2 affairs, emotional abuse, dh never communicating on a level you find acceptable, you not over OM. There is so much to work through, I just don't know.

It's incredibly relevant. It explains why your DH walks on eggshells.

You can't go around scowling at things, slamming doors, looking like murder, cursing under your breath or using any other non-verbal expressions of irritation, even little things like seeming preoccupied and looking miffed, sighing, shaking your head sadly without making the person you share your living quarters with want to placate you and at all costs not make things worse.

It is exactly the opposite of the sort of behaviour that elicits trust, makes someone want to be emotionally close to you, lean on you, share his joys and sorrows. If you don't understand why it's relevant then I once again urge you to see a therapist.

'It sounds as though when you feel this way, you act it out - which is really, really hard for those in your company. They start to worry that a storm is brewing, they worry that they might have triggered it for some reason...'
Absolutely.
Your H is not going to recover overnight from the emotional abuse you have dished out to him over the years.

I just think if you know that you both need space to figure things out then surely that is the only way forward? Just explain to him that its not because you want to split that you are looking for some time apart - but its for both of you to figure out who you are and what exactly you want from one and other.

(It's not like you can't call each other, or whatever, or that you'd have to make it public.)

There must be somewhere you could go parents/ siblings/ cousins/ friend/ b&b. You could reassure dh that you will keep it discreet.

You can't change the fact you have had an affair and I understand you don't want to put the guy through any more heartbreak but, at the end of the day if you both want this to work then I don't understand how you both could not want time on your own to re-evaluate your relationship and decide what it is you want out of each other. Something massive has happened and you can't go 'back' or try pretending that it didn't.

You are not the people you were 10 years ago and neither should you both pretend to be!

math - I haven't behaved like that at all for a good few months. I have been trying to change that.

Learning - no family or friends anywhere near and can't afford a b&b. Tried 'separating' in the house but it didn't work. I thought it had made a difference, but here I am doubting again a few weeks later.

You are expecting too much, too fast, and you are absolutely not going to help either him or your relationship by telling him to change everything he has learned to do in order to keep a relationship with you for nine years. You don't seem to have perceived or understand the effect that sort of treatment has on a loved one.

If you've been like that for a few years it is going to take a lot of time and he needs professional help just as much as you do. You can't restore what has been chipped away for years by simply saying -- 'that was then, this is now, it's safe to come out and express yourself, I'm all ears'. He could try calling Women's Aid and see if the Freedom Programme might help him progress towards recovery.

OP a few months is not long to undo behaviour. Has he considered counselling? Either together or separately or both.
Does he know that the reason you have behaved as you have is to get a reaction? Or does he just think you are highly strung?
Can I ask what type of reaction you used to push for? Was it anger, sadness, shame etc.

He doesn't want counselling - I've broached it two or three times. Doesn't see how it could help.

I am highly strung, I know that! Part of the reason we work(ed) - I overreact to some things and he calms me down, he sometimes is too laid back about important things so I give him a metaphorical kick up the bum (in a nice way). I must add I've only done the getting a reaction thing two or three times the whole time we've been together when I've got so frustrated at getting a one sentence reaction to something I'm upset about.

I think that laying all the blame at the feet of the OP isn't helping. And seeing her DH as the 'perfect man' (because he seems to be reacting with a lot of calm and control) isn't either. Someone who is answering with a one word or one sentence to something his partner is really upset about isn't right.

banana, listen you have a really big issue to solve re communication in your marriage. This is something that has been there for a very long time, probably since the start. But has time went on, this has become more and more difficult to live with.
I will not make a judgement call on whether you are in the wrong or the one the most in the wrong or if you are incompatible because this is just impossible to do from a few posts on a screen.
What I do know is that you have a relationship that is on very shaky grounds atm. You have massive communication issues with your DH. You are still recovering from depression. All of which would have taken its toll on any relationship. On the top of that, there are the affairs.

Before talking about 'saving your marriage' and 'wanting to make everything better', changing yourself and your DH to save the relationship, I would make a bold move and start looking after yourself. Not to save the marriage, nor because you have hurt your DH but for yourself. To find some balance that you have lost, build up your self esteem and find out again where your boundaries are.
Use counselling to help clarify where you are. Go out and build up a new network of friends. Do some exercise, some yoga (to help you wind down). Try meditation, singing, doing some gardening or some craft. Look at your diet. Whatever it takes for you to find some peace again.
And when you will have some calm within you, you will find that some problems will have sorted themselves out all on their own (incl some communication issues). As you change, you will probably see your DH changing too.
And it might mean that you will end up with a stronger relationship or it might you will go different ways.
But you need to do it for yourself, not for this thing that a relationship is.

Thank you, Lady. I think you are right. I also need to find out how much of the unhappiness I have had with DH is due to my depression and general dissatisfaction with life, or something deeper. OM is completely different to DH, and tapped into a part of my personality nobody ever has before - I don't think DH will ever be able to do that, because he is a completely different person, so I also need to work out if everything DH gives me, and I can give him, outweighs that. I don't want to keep him hanging on but he knows where I am and I think we both need time to work out how we feel.

Hmm, I agree with LadyinDisguise about looking after yourself too. When I suggested separation, I didn't mean to be rude, it's just, you two seem incredibly incompatible...He might be a good or even a wonderful man but that mightn't mean that he is the right man for you. That may sound defeatist but it might be worth considering. Back in the title of your OP, you said, I want DH to be tougher with me - maybe he just can't.
FWIW I divorced a good man 'who wasn't tough with me'. We are still great friends but I thank my lucky stars we are not still together. We were a bad match.

That's interesting, Alurket - and I didn't think you were being rude. Do you mind my asking what made you get divorced? Had you been married long? (feel free to not answer if you don't want to)

Kat not ket!

We were together for about 5 years. He was/is a great guy but the strong silent type which, looking back, was so not me.
I'm afraid I had an affair. The OM dumped me. I realised I was behaving like an all round shit. We split up...
This was all about 12 years ago and I still feel ashamed how I went about things. I should have ended it better.
I am now with an emotional, assertive guy (prob more like my dad - hmm freudian) have done a lot, well some, work on myself, and feel much more at home in the world.
I hope that helps, bananacrepe.

I really think that the pps today are right. He may be wonderful, but he may not be right for you. That's what you really should think about.
You seem a little back and forth on what the problems are. Is this down to incompatibility? You need to sort your issues (which I know you doing) first.
but you really need to think about if your marriage is worth saving, if you are good couple and if too much has happened between you to move on so that you can not be happy.

Sounds familiar, Alurkat... Thanks, that does help. I hope you're much happier now.

The main issue is the nightly voice in my head - the something I can't quite put my finger in that doesn't seem right, that all the other things contribute to. Can't work out if it's just me expecting too much though.

I think its a bit of everything. You being highly strung, him being to laid back, your affair, his affair etc.
You seem to get that you have a problem. In becoming aware of that you are probably thinking more about the impact you have on him. You want him to communicate to assure you that you are not slipping. But I think you are expecting to much to soon.
All these things are preying on your mind. What's obvious to me is that to make this work you both have to change who you are. But if you both do, will you still be 'you' iyswim.

Niggly not nightly! Stupid phone!

Wow, your husband supports you through years of depression and sounds very even tempered and patient and this is the treatment he gets? Even after an affair you criticise him for reacting the wrong way. The poor guy sounds so ground down. You need to give him a break - YOU need to be the one to ask him what he wants and needs, not still making it about what YOU need, YOU want, YOU'd like.

Of course I ask him! The point is I have realised he often does things just to please me, which I don't want, so I am making sure I ask him more as he's not very good at being honest about what he does want.

Asking someone who has been living on eggshells because of your behaviour what they want and need from you can be experienced by that person as an incredible insult. Every single word of a question like that can feel like an ice pick stabbing your chest. You really can't turn around after treating someone like that and expect them to express their emotional needs to you or even to tell you what is bothering them right then and there.

There will always be the rightful suspicion that if it is so easy for you to not be so difficult to live with, so easy for you to attend to their feelings, why couldn't you do that for years instead of making it all about you and your moods and your need to vent. That feeling can generate a lot of anger and feelings of incredible hurt, as well as the niggling thought that if what went before was done thoughtlessly and seemingly without real regard for feelings then what is going on now is yet another whim or very shallow. Either way, it can become painfully obvious that the person on the receiving end of EA behaviour wasn't high on the priority list of the person dishing it out, and recognising that can hurt when it is finally dragged into the open and examined.

When I say I ask him I don't mean I've been badgering him with questions about the meaning of life and future all the time. That would get incredibly wearing for anyone.

I'll give you an example: he's watching something on tv that I'm not particularly interested in; I ask him if he's watching it because there's nothing else on or because he really wants to - I have to really encourage him to be honest and not just say what he thinks he wants to hear. If its something he wants, sometimes I'll stay, sometimes I'll suggest I go watch what I want to upstairs if it's something I've been looking forward to, or read a book. I'm not funny about it at all and I honestly wouldn't mind if he did the same - we don't have to be tied together. He then moans that I won't be in the room so straight away turns it over to what I want, which frustrates me because I don't want him to always do what I want!

If the boot is on the other foot he is still quick to moan if he doesn't want to watch what I've chosen, so I will usually turn it off.

That's obviously a daft example but I promise I'm not the emotional abuser I seem to have come across as

And math - I'm sorry but I don't agree with your saying if someone has changed why couldn't they always have been like that. It seems a rather negative way of looking at someone making a positive change.

If he has been walking on eggshells and is still trying to guess what you want when you ask simple questions about the TV or whatever (which in your example actually did have a subtext that you wanted to watch something specific more than he wanted to watch his programme), if you have been giving signs of displeasure and irritation with your body language and other non-verbal language, then you have been engaged in EA.

You are not able to put yourself in his shoes if you could write that last post (00:01:13) Banana.

Read many of the threads in Relationships and you will see partners asking that question over and over, with immense hurt behind their words. There are (mostly female) posters there who can't understand how their partners can switch it on and off like that, and concluding that their partners chose to hurt with their words and their facial gestures and their bad moods just as they are now so painfully obviously choosing to be nice.

It is a terrible thing to realise that you are living with someone who deliberately chose to torment you and that nothing you did to make things better over the years had actually made any difference to the relationship nothing you said or wore or cooked and no amount of biting your tongue or crying made a difference that the hurtful partner was actually living out some drama all alone in his own head and that you were just a handy, breathing being in whose direction the partner could throw words or sneers or vent anger as they felt necessary. What it feels like is that your life was somehow stolen from you and simply used up by someone else.