I want DH to be tougher with me

[bananacrepe]

I know I may get flame for this. I know I should be thanking my lucky stars - and I am, but at the same time I want things to change.

Since I confessed to my affair two months ago DH hasn't shown he is angry with me at all. He is hugely hurt, I know that, and I am deeply sorry and regret it immensely. We are both aware of why it happened and I've been completely honest with him. I am finding it hard to let go of OM (who, incidentally, now pretty much hates me), partly because he seems to want to refuse to acknowledge his part in everything, and can't deal with the guilt, wanting to live on cloud 9 with his new gf (I still believe there was an overlap between me and her. She of course doesn't know this). He is also refusing to answer any questions DH has for him. I think he wants us both to disappear.

Anyway... One of the reasons for the affair - and in saying this I am NOT in any way blaming DH for it - my actions were and are my own responsibility - was because I felt (though I didn't realise this at the time) the relationship was unequal. OM challenged me in a way DH never has. I have suffered from depression and anxiety on and off for a few years, and DH has dealt with that by trying to keep me a calm as possible, which basically meant giving into me. I never really realised how much this was happening until the affair.

I have spoken to him about it but he is still doing it. I am trying hard to be better, to do more for him, to be less irritable and calmer, and I'm getting there. But if something isn't done or I he disagrees with me I wish to goodness he would say so! I don't want him walking on eggshells. I need to know that if I do something to upset him he will tell me. I have found myself pushing him in the past just to get a reaction. I realise this is my problem, and I am working on it, but equally I want him to be happy and I want him to say if I've done something that makes him unhappy. I am trying my best and making sure I'm not doing anything to annoy him or upset him but I need it to be more equal or it won't work. I don't want to be the boss. I don't want to be in charge. I want to be a team now that I have this chance (that I really didn't deserve) to make a go of things.

I know I need to stop thinking about him and how he has treated me. If I could turn it off I would in a second. I just don't know how to - it's not as easy as just deciding not to!

I don't assume that someone who's been unfaithful will do so again. Quite the reverse in fact. I know lots of people who would never do it again.

But one of the reasons for my faith in those people is that they take responsibility for their part in events and don't blame the third parties for having affairs with them and doing the sensible thing in finding happiness with someone who is free to be with them.

Your anger with the OM is sorely misplaced and I'm amazed you can't see that, or that your husband isn't telling you the same. Maybe he's falling into the common trap of blaming the OM alone for what happened - and not you.

It seems like you want a relationship full of drama and confrontation, but 'unfortunately' your husband is a nice and reasonable person, who would rather address problems in a calm way rather than 'rant and rave'?

I don't get the 'pushing him to get a reaction' thing, you sound like a child behaving badly to get more attention from your parents. That's not how an adult relationship should be. Same with 'want him to be tougher with me'. You are really not treating him very well here. You cheated on him, seem to be only still with him because the other man dumped you, and now it's somehow his fault because he isn't 'tough' enough?

Are you maybe a bit bored and unsatisfied in other areas of your life, maybe you need more challenge and excitement in general? A more challenging/fulfilling job or a hobby?

Totally 110% agree Ephiny!

If I were only with him because OM dumped me I wouldn't be trying to improve our relationship.

I am taking responsibility for it. I have said all along that I was entirely responsible
for my own decisions and I have not tried to excuse what I have done - unlike OM.

And I never said it was his fault!

You can stop this obsession with what the OM has done, if you change your entire attitude to this and see it from his point of view and also from your husband's.

You blame the OM for casting your husband in a negative light and 'making you' draw unfair comparisons with the OM.

From your husband's point of view, the person he should be blaming most about that is you. The person you should be blaming most about that is yourself. Yes, it was a shitty thing of the OM to do - but to your husband , not you

You owed your husband some loyalty so that when another man was criticising him to suit his own agenda, you should have defended him and refused to let that happen. Instead, you blame the OM for doing it and 'making you' believe he was the better option.

Again I will say that if a MM who'd had an affair was saying that he resented the OW for disparaging his wife and altering his opinion of the woman he's married to, he would be told the same as you're seeing here, except there would be more colourful language....

But from the OM's point of view, you're no different to any other MM who kept vacillating about leaving his wife but never did. He got fed up and then met someone who made him question whether his feelings for you were actually that strong after all. Nothing about 'conscience' I should think - more self-preservation and a realisation that there was someone better out there for him without all that baggage. He did the right thing for him.

The problem is, you don't think he did the right thing for you and you're smarting about that. To the detriment of your husband and your marriage.

If you stopped being angry with the OM and made peace with what actually sounds like the sort of sensible decision we'd all urge our OW friends to make, then you might be able to let it go and forgive him.

Then take responsibility for not just having the affair, but allowing someone to distort your opinion of your husband.

'unfortunately' your husband is a nice and reasonable person, who would rather address problems in a calm way rather than 'rant and rave'?

I would like to remind you that the DH HAS HAD AN AFFAIR TOO.

I am not saying that that means it's all his fault but saying he is all whiter than white is obviously not the case.

The Op has not given any concrete example of what she means by not communicating except that she had so little reaction from him, so much so that she tried to get some sort of reaction at all cost.

As I said before, refusing to communicate is extremely hurtful and ime can easily lead to low self esteem, which is one of the issue that lead the OP to the affair.

So yes I really believe that sorting out this issue of communication is essential for the survival of this relationship.
And that they both need to make some effort to make it work because, even wo the affair, that way of living is just unbearable.

No-one in a marriage (or otherwise) is 'whiter-than-white'. No-one's saying that the OP's husband is a saint. But he was unfaithful (to what degree, we don't know) and the OP forgave him. That was an active choice on her part. Unless he too is still raging about how the OW dumped him and isnn't taking any responsibility for the problems he's now got in his marriage, I cannot see its relevance to the current situation.

The communication issue is highly relevant of course, but still seems secondary in the OP's mind to this obsession with the OM.

Yes, sternface. OM is a totally innocent party, cared deeply about my feelings all the way through, didn't at all take advantage of me confiding in me as a friend, wasn't using me as a gap filler, and didn't suddenly change his mind once he'd got what he wanted. And of course he hasn't lied to his current gf about when things ended with us. And of course he didn't lie to me about the reason for changing his mind. And of course he didn't announce his relationship to the world, including his two kids, only a month after first meeting his gf, taking his kids from 0 to stepfamily in three weeks.

Nobody made me do what I did. I know that. Nobody made me do anything (though he did try very hard to persuade me to sleep with him). But you tell me now that if you were stupid enough to let yourself fall for someone else (which I'm sure you wouldn't be, and that's not sarcastic), and you were doubting everything in your entire life, and somebody was telling you you were in the wrong life, and they could give you everything, and you were the only person they could be happy with, and the only good thing in their life, and they would do anything for you, etc etc, that it wouldn't affect you even a tiny bit?

It's not secondary - if I'd had the communication with DH I wouldn't have needed to find it with OM. I should have done something about it but neither DH nor I realised how lacking it was until I found out what proper communication was like!

stern I think we agree on that one.

The OP really needs to take responsibility for what has happened and get to the bottom on the reasons why.
The communication issue (which obviously exists) should not detract the OP from taking a hard look at the reasons why she had the affair.

I do get annoyed by very one sided views where the OP is just 'ranty' and her DH 'nice and reasonable'.

I wonder if you are really over the OM, just because you seem to be looking for things in your husband that were in him, plus you do seem really put out that he is no longer acknowledging you, has a new gf and isn't answering questions about your affair to you dh.... things that if you were over him wouldn't occur to you.

I'm not necessarily saying you are in love with him, or love him in the same way as your husband, but it does seem like there are definite feelings there that need dealing with. Hate can be as strong a feeling as love, so maybe the best thing you can do regarding the other man is to let go and become indifferent to him... indifference is the opposite to love; not hate.

Your husband does hold all the cards, how long has it been since you told him about the affair?? Maybe its just about needing more time, maybe you need to show him you have changed from how you were before the affair too - do extra nice things for him, go out of your way to make him feel loved and secure. Maybe things you previously hated doing with him (whether its watching the cricket, gardening shows) you could start doing. Just let him know you are desperately trying to be better. Perhaps if you tried positively changing the dynamic he could only eventually follow and open up to you more?

banana you sounds very hurt by the OM behaviour.
In some ways, I can understand why but the most important thing now isn't for you to distribute blame to each person involved.
So the OM has to take 40% of the blame because bla bla bla.
I will take 40% of the blame because I should never had done that.
And DH is taking 20% of the blame because he isn't communicating well.

The most important thing for you is to understand
1- why you have been acting like this
2- why you didn't realize how bad you were at communicating with your DH. Why this lack of awareness?
3- what did you think you were getting from that relationship with OM.

I get that you are feeling hurt, perhaps the same way than you had been in a faithful relationship and then had had an affair (with his new gf).
But you will have to get pass the hurt and move towards the understanding.
You will also need to get pass that hurt so that you can concentrate on your DH and your relationship.

TBH, this guy was happy to have an affair with you. He looked to have an affair with you. Are you that surprised that he actually turned out to be a twat?

Sorry some words missing there....

I get that you are feeling hurt, perhaps the same way than if you had been in a faithful relationship and he then had had an affair (with his new gf).

Ok. Reasons why I had the affair (not known at the time, but have realised why since after much soul searching):

Self esteem - lack thereof. Yes, it gave me an ego boost. Show me someone who's been involved in a affair on either side that can say this wasn't part of it - they're lying.

My desperation to not regret anything in life makes me question things daily. Didn't realise that most regret lies in trying to avoid it. This was a big one - I worry endlessly about making the right decision. How I could ever have thought this was the right decision I don't know, but I was terrified I'd married the wrong person.

My lack of friends - they all live miles away. Every good friend I've ever had always had another friend they'd put before me. This was the first time I was put first by someone. I liked being someone's first choice, and not (I thought) for romantic reasons. Of course, that turned out to be complete crap as he was just after me to fill the gap his wife, who'd left him years ago, had left, as he was lonely. My friendship meant diddly squat to him in the end.

My frustration with the lack of communication and understanding. DH and I are very different in the way we look at things. OM and I are very similar. He understood my worrying and depression because he'd been there himself. DH was just a bit flummoxed by the whole thing.

OM talked to me about his problems and I felt like I was helping him. I felt like I never had the chance to help DH because he bottled everything up.

I wanted more independence. DH and I had always been a bit of a double act and I wanted to be known by people as a whole person, not as his sidekick. The affair started through a shares hobby with OM that I started to get some independence.

Those are the main reasons.

This is really strange, you sound like the mother of my child when i was the OM in her marriage. I was so different to her H, i challenged her etc. Once our affair, if you can call it that as i was single, came out the H didn't do anything about it, no anger from him, just kind of accepted it.

Will post some more of my thoughts on this when i have more time.

"[if] somebody was telling you you were in the wrong life, and they could give you everything, and you were the only person they could be happy with, and the only good thing in their life, and they would do anything for you, etc etc, that it wouldn't affect you even a tiny bit?"

Honestly? It would make me do this face -> . Maybe when I was 18 and had read too many romantic novels and had too little sense it would have affected me, now I think it sounds creepy, needy and annoying. Real love doesn't look like that.

Also, some men will tell you whatever they think you want to hear.

I'm not over him, no. I desperately want that indifference because I can't move on without it. I don't want to be with him but I just need to stop wanting to punch him every time I see him...

It irks me that everyone else thinks he's so wonderful when he's clearly not. It bugs me that I helped I'm through a lot of issues about his wife leaving him, leaving him more open to a relationship, and everybody assumes she's the one that is doing that. (being completely honest here...) And I do feel very sorry for his kids as he didn't exactly introduce her to them gradually.

Ephiny: usually, yes, the would be right. And I see now it was needy and a bit desperate. But when you think you're in love with someone you think it's romantic and lovely.

Exactly what Lurking said. You sound very narcissistic. Look at the situation from DH's point of view. And from the OM's. Everyone does not have to spend their lives pleasing YOU.

You also remind me of my mother. She could be wonderful, funny, charming, engaging but very hurtful if things did not go her way. I hope you benefit from your therapy and can start seeing other people as autonomous beings who do not exist to satisfy your needs.

There are two types of person:

The one that blames themselves
and the one that blames others

Unfortunately it is very hard or nearly impossible to treat the ones that blame others.

cross post with MyBoys, both said the same thing in a different way huh

Well we all make mistakes, or misjudge people or situations sometimes. And what's done is done, it's what you do next that matters.

I agree with others that there are basically two separate problems here. I think you need to move on from the OM, properly. Stop going over who did or said what, and whose fault it was. It doesn't matter. Forget about his wife/kids/gf, they're not a part of your life. Nevermind what 'everybody' thinks of him, it doesn't affect you. This is easier said than done, I know, but what you need to aim for. Maybe the counselling can help here.

Secondly there's the question of whether you and DH are compatible and the marriage has a future. Would he consider coming to couples counselling with you? I appreciate it might not be easy for him if he doesn't like to talk about personal matters, but perhaps he'd make the effort to save his marriage?

When have I said people are 'autonomous beings' who exist to please me??! The whole point is I'm wanting to do things to please my husband! I don't want his main focus to be pleasing me always at the expense of what he wants!