I want DH to be tougher with me

[bananacrepe]

I know I may get flame for this. I know I should be thanking my lucky stars - and I am, but at the same time I want things to change.

Since I confessed to my affair two months ago DH hasn't shown he is angry with me at all. He is hugely hurt, I know that, and I am deeply sorry and regret it immensely. We are both aware of why it happened and I've been completely honest with him. I am finding it hard to let go of OM (who, incidentally, now pretty much hates me), partly because he seems to want to refuse to acknowledge his part in everything, and can't deal with the guilt, wanting to live on cloud 9 with his new gf (I still believe there was an overlap between me and her. She of course doesn't know this). He is also refusing to answer any questions DH has for him. I think he wants us both to disappear.

Anyway... One of the reasons for the affair - and in saying this I am NOT in any way blaming DH for it - my actions were and are my own responsibility - was because I felt (though I didn't realise this at the time) the relationship was unequal. OM challenged me in a way DH never has. I have suffered from depression and anxiety on and off for a few years, and DH has dealt with that by trying to keep me a calm as possible, which basically meant giving into me. I never really realised how much this was happening until the affair.

I have spoken to him about it but he is still doing it. I am trying hard to be better, to do more for him, to be less irritable and calmer, and I'm getting there. But if something isn't done or I he disagrees with me I wish to goodness he would say so! I don't want him walking on eggshells. I need to know that if I do something to upset him he will tell me. I have found myself pushing him in the past just to get a reaction. I realise this is my problem, and I am working on it, but equally I want him to be happy and I want him to say if I've done something that makes him unhappy. I am trying my best and making sure I'm not doing anything to annoy him or upset him but I need it to be more equal or it won't work. I don't want to be the boss. I don't want to be in charge. I want to be a team now that I have this chance (that I really didn't deserve) to make a go of things.

You want your DH to 'lean' on you - but you have already proved over the years that he cannot lean on you, so I assume that he has learnt other ways to support himself emotionally.

I think you need to give your lovely husband time. Stop putting this insane pressure on him to behave a certain way when it is quite clear that he is not ready to yet, and maybe never will be. If you know things annoy him - stop doing them. But consider that he has lived with you for years being volatile and has probably got used to biting his tongue for a quiet life. So maybe also stop trying to find things that annoy him, he just sounds like an easier going person than you. Time you started thanking your lucky stars for him, and started cherishing the H you have.

I'm reminding us all that the OPs HUSBAND HAD AN AFFAIR TOO. I'm nor surprised you have self esteem issues.

Maybe this is why he's being so kind. He did the shitty thing to you too....?
I think you both need help, for different things, and also as a couple.

I missed that Lost - where does the OP say that?

I'm sorry I come across like that Believe me, nobody could make me feel worse about this than I already do. OM only ended it because he found someone else - otherwise he would have kept going until I finally found the guts I should have had all along. He was quite happy to beg me to come back every time I ended it - which I admit I didn't need to do but he sure as heck didn't make it easy - I was ridiculously weak and should have done the right thing, I know, but he really played on the guilt about how awful his life would be if I left him. He focused very much on things that he thought were wrong with my husband and our marriage. I knew very early on that there was no way out without hurting one of them. Stupidly I hurt the one that didn't deserve it. OM knew the score from the start and could have walked away at any point - including when I told him it was over. Instead he chipped away at the doubts I had about my marriage, that I had stupidly created myself, told me everything my husband couldn't give me that he could, until I had convinced myself I needed to leave, whereupon he decided he'd rather be with someone that wouldn't tarnish his reputation and that after all I wasn't needed, despite what he'd always said about our friendship. He has been extremely nasty to me ever since and I have realised that stuff we did together as friends, that meant something to me as friends, was actually just him wanting to sleep with me. I'm not trying to paint myself as an innocent victim here. I am fully aware that I should never have started it in the first place. But he is not blameless at all. This may sound like another 'ego trip' but I cannot change the fact that I let myself go way too far and fell in love with him, so yes, despite the fact I'd tell him where to go if he suddenly changed his mind now that I know what he is really like, it hurts. I cannot change how I feel overnight (believe me, if I could I would). I am not in contact with him at all except the occasional thing through work that I can't avoid, and he's been moved for the moment so there's not even that for a few months. He wanted to stay friends (my husband knew this) but it was entirely on his terms so I said no. Plus despite my husband saying he didn't mind I think it'd be best anyway.

I was 50% responsible for this, and I know people are going to find a lot of fault with what I've said above, but I was always completely honest with OM and he has treated me like crap. Clearly that is also what I did to my husband but at least I am trying to make it up to him. My focus now is on my husband and what I can do to make it up - I am doing everything I can think of but I still need help. I made a huge mistake but if I spend the rest of my life feeling crap about it and feeling like the worst person on earth neither of us are going to be happy. Of course I will, and rightly so, always feel crap about it, but I can't have it being the focus of our life together. It's a mistake I have learned from hugely and will never make again, but we have to move on. I will never, ever hurt him like that again. The pain I saw in him was unbearable. The whole point of my original post was that I want him to tell me what makes him happy if I get it wrong - which everybody does sometimes.

Sorry about the lack of paragraphs - writing on phone!

Well, I read that to be the meaning in OPs long post, page 2. Where she says he did it to her s long time ago.

If this is the case and I've not misread, then the dh isn't maybe so lovely as many have said, and the OP has shitloads still to process, by the sounds of it.

OP, did I misread?

Um. Lost is right. It's in one of my posts from yesterday. Not an excuse - two wrongs not making a right and all that, and I certainly didn't use it as any sort of justification - but no, it didn't help my self esteem. But I understood his reasons for it, he changed, we got past it.

sternface As the OW thread last week proved, while there are a lot of people saying well done for getting on with your life, there are also a hell of a lot of people giving the OW a roasting for helping to break up a marriage. OM refuses to take any of this responsibility.

I would disagree. You're BOTH in this marriage. You BOTH made mistakes. He needs to communicate with you, otherwise it'd not BE FAIR.
I don't buy this 'its all my fault'. You cannot process this on your own. He needs to help you. He should know what it's like, FFS.
Sorry, I am not do sure he's as wonderful ad you or others make him out to be.

I mean your dh, not the Om, BTW!

Would it be so terrible to separate? You want to love your DH and talk about what a good man he is, but you don't respect him or make each other happy.

banana my DP is the sort of person that will not say when something is annoying him. He just keeps his mouth shut and resentment/anger builds up.
It is very difficult to live with because you never know where to stand.

What I am getting from your posts is that you would like to know exactly where he stands so that you can modify our behaviour accordingly, taking into account his pov so that the relationship is more balanced. Did I get that right?
Also that, after the affair, the need to do things right for him is even stronger than before.
And that you feel that being mollycoted by your DH didn't help you at all. That perhaps having been told a few home truth before would have open your eyes before you did anything stupid.

I think the answer is 2 folds:
1- you need to go through that with your counsellor. Go over why you think you need him to be more assertive. What sort of needs (for you) it will fulfil.
2 You also need to realize that you will not change your DH. If he is the calm, doesn't express himself very much type, he will always be like this. Which can be blessing at times. What I do know is that I have found ways for my DP to let me know what he finds annoying. Ways that aren't my preferable ways to communicate but this fulfils my need to know how he feels and I am happy to make the effort for that.
I also thinks this actually important for our relationship but as DP doesn't seem to be able to communicate easily, I have decided to be the one to make the effort in this case

Finally I would separate the issue of the affair and your communication problems very clearly. You do need to do the work on yourself re the affair and lack of self esteem, which you are obviously doing. Then as a separate issue deal with your communication problem with your DH.
Perhaps leave it for a bit, let things settle down as he must have been very hurt and doing through counselling will not be easy for him just right now (if couple counselling is done right, it should challenge both partners in their way of doing things). Explain to him that your want to do the best for the relationship and see if he is happy to get on board.

Lady You have got it spot on. You are exactly right. That's what I've been trying to say (but clearly not very well).

Lost Thank you.

Alurkat I respect him hugely. The way he has handled this has shown so much dignity.

Lady Are you able to give me an example of the ways he can tell you?

Look, the OM deserves enormous blame for having an affair with a married woman. That's indisputable. You both share that blame and responsibility.

What he shouldn't be getting any blame for is ending the relationship and starting another with someone who was free to be with him - and that's what you appear to be doing.

That's the difference.

If a married man was posting that he was angry that the OW had never taken any responsibility for his affair with her, was angry that she'd cheated on him and dropped him like a hot stone, anyone with any sense would tell him to get over himself and put that energy into restoring his wife's self-esteem. If he was complaining that his wife had never been 'challenging' enough and that he had often in the past 'pushed her just to get a reaction' then posters would be far harsher than they are being with you. He'd probably be accused of having Narcisstic Personality Disorder and emotional abuse.

This is no different just because you're a woman.

You seem reluctant to answer what's coming out in your therapy, which is very relevant to the advice we can give you on here.

I am never ever confrontational and try to keep everything very light hearted.
If I can feel he is starting to get upset/feeling accused, I make sure he knows I am not (cues for smiles and a little joke).
Also I keep it short, one issue only at the time.
On the things I know he doesn't like, I make sure I am talking about it as a joke (ie I am using derision on myself) so that he feels it's OK to say it too.

What has also worked is writing to each other.

BUT my DP has some very specific communication issues and he feels that if he says anything 'the roof will collapse on his head'. So the least tension there is, the better he is at opening up.
You might want to review possibilities with your counsellor and try them on too. The best being to have a session together.

As I said, I would be very careful not to mix the two issues though and be very clear about it both to yourself (so the reasons for your affair don't get addressed) and to your DH (so that it is clear he has a responsibility to the state of his marriage bit not to your decision to have an affair iyswim)

Sternface What I am angry about is him spending all the time telling me I'm the love of his life, he can't live without me, I shouldn't be with DH I should be with him because he'd appreciate me more, then me telling him finally I would leave, and him saying well actually I've changed my mind, I'm with someone else now (in the space of a week), and then saying our marriage problems aren't anything to do with him. He wants to pretend it never happened because he can't bear admitting that he did it. He then had the cheek to tell my husband he had been desperately trying to get me to focus on my husband instead of him once he'd changed his mind overnight because now it suited him to do the right thing as he didn't need to be lonely if he wasn't with me.

sternface I can't answer the therapy question yet - my last counsellor just listened and didn't really say much (which was helpful for venting at the time) and my next one I'm still on the waiting list for.

Lady thank you. That's really helpful. I have got him to write to me, which has helped, I think.

But lots of OW say the same things to their married men. Some of them mean all of it too. Until it dawns on them that someone who's willing to lie to his wife might do the same to them one day and that even if the men left their wives for them, the trust would never be there. Their friends tell them to go out and meet someone new who's got a better track record for honesty in relationships - and support them when they do just that.

What's the difference?

I think you'd be far better off supporting the OM's decision and wanting him to be happy with his new gf.

And put all the energy expended on your rage with him into your marriage.

If your husband knows all this and how angry you still are with the OM, I cannot think it's in his best interests to stay with you. It's a form of masochism.

I think people aer too tough on OP - to me the main thing she wants to change is her H to start TALKING to her, this is not unreasnable at all. If he doesn't help with letting her know what HE wants out of r-ship, then how can she not be frustrated - she wantsto make amends and wants some guidance from him. I think it's actually a bit passive agressive to refuse to talk to your wife when she really asks you to.

I agree with a poster who said that they are not very compatible as personalities, but counselling MAY help to see how the other's way if thinking.

*see the other's way of thinking

He thinks a relationship with me will meet his needs as long as I talk to him more, which I am doing.

The OP's husband HAS said what he wants.

It's just the OP doesn't believe him and thinks he's bottling up various grievances.

Maybe he is. In his shoes I'd be wanting my wife to stop obsessing about the OM and the great wrong he's done to her, because as long as she is, the OM is still right there inside my marriage.

Maybe he doesn't feel like that though. Sometimes we think we know what we want but it's not always what we need. A counsellor or a good friend might help him with that.

sternface Why do you assume that anybody who cheated would do it again? There's no way on this earth I'd ever make the same mistake twice!! Why would I want to put somebody else, and myself, through this much again?!

I've said - I am angry because I risked my marriage for someone I thought loved me, who was quite happy to help me ruin my marriage when the alternative was being on his own, and then when he found another alternative he miraculously found his conscience. I wasn't proposing to continue the affair and wouldn't have done. I knew I had to go one way or the other. At the time, yes, I wanted to leave, but it wouldn't have been right and I am mightily glad I didn't. It was also my decision to tell DH everything which the OM violently opposed because it made him look bad. I resent that he has told his gf half the story, making me look bad, when he was adamantly checking with me that I was telling DH everything (which I was doing anyway) to make sure I looked as bad as he did.

Actually refusing to talk to your partner is extremely hurtful and can be as hurtful as abuse (my counsellor words).
It is also essential in a healthy relationship and probably even more when there is some very big issues to solve (such as the OP).