I want DH to be tougher with me

[bananacrepe]

I know I may get flame for this. I know I should be thanking my lucky stars - and I am, but at the same time I want things to change.

Since I confessed to my affair two months ago DH hasn't shown he is angry with me at all. He is hugely hurt, I know that, and I am deeply sorry and regret it immensely. We are both aware of why it happened and I've been completely honest with him. I am finding it hard to let go of OM (who, incidentally, now pretty much hates me), partly because he seems to want to refuse to acknowledge his part in everything, and can't deal with the guilt, wanting to live on cloud 9 with his new gf (I still believe there was an overlap between me and her. She of course doesn't know this). He is also refusing to answer any questions DH has for him. I think he wants us both to disappear.

Anyway... One of the reasons for the affair - and in saying this I am NOT in any way blaming DH for it - my actions were and are my own responsibility - was because I felt (though I didn't realise this at the time) the relationship was unequal. OM challenged me in a way DH never has. I have suffered from depression and anxiety on and off for a few years, and DH has dealt with that by trying to keep me a calm as possible, which basically meant giving into me. I never really realised how much this was happening until the affair.

I have spoken to him about it but he is still doing it. I am trying hard to be better, to do more for him, to be less irritable and calmer, and I'm getting there. But if something isn't done or I he disagrees with me I wish to goodness he would say so! I don't want him walking on eggshells. I need to know that if I do something to upset him he will tell me. I have found myself pushing him in the past just to get a reaction. I realise this is my problem, and I am working on it, but equally I want him to be happy and I want him to say if I've done something that makes him unhappy. I am trying my best and making sure I'm not doing anything to annoy him or upset him but I need it to be more equal or it won't work. I don't want to be the boss. I don't want to be in charge. I want to be a team now that I have this chance (that I really didn't deserve) to make a go of things.

op,I sort of get where you are coming from.
And you have endlessly said on here that your behaviour was wrong.
You wanted to be put on a pedestal,and you thought you were by the OM.
Firstly,try and forget about the OM.
You need to look in at your marriage,not outwards.
Secondly,you do not feel that you are put on a pedestal by your DH or are not number 1, because of his lack of communication.Instead I would look at DHs actions.By his actions he is putting you on a pedestal.He has been supportive throughout you depression and anxiety.And he is being supportive after you have had the affair,which most men would not do imo.I think you need to see this more and massively appreciate it.
Thirdly,like others have said,if he is the quiet,laid back type,he isnt going to massively change.And as you appreciate,this is a problem in your marriage.If you were also a quiet,laid back type,it wouldnt be such an issue.Sice you are already having counselling,I suggest you bring it up with the counsellor,and ask her if she has ideas on the matter.

Indeed MissFaversham!

Ideally I would suggest until the OM is out of your system, you should cool things with your husband. He is obviously a lovely guy to take you back but I personally feel that before you two can build your bridges you need to burn the one with the OM. Call it a break, give it two weeks, a month, whatever - just time to realise why you both want to be with each other in the first place. It might be the remedy you need to deal with all your feelings with OM.

It sounds like the last thing you would want to do is to hurt your dh any more, so don't. If you still have strong feelings for this guy then deal with them. It will only hurt/ shake your husbands confidence in you more if he were to findout you're still dwelling on this guy.

Maybe if you both had time to remember who you are separately you can make sure that you reunite because you want to be with the other person, not just because you are married. Of course you risk losing him in this case, but I'm not sure how it can work whilst you're still hung up on the om.

I know you're right, learning. I wanted space so moved into the spare room. It helped, at first, and I felt much better so I moved back. DH desperately didn't want me away from him, and didn't want me to go anywhere else as he didn't want anyone finding out. I haven't got anywhere else to go.

Amillionyears it's almost the opposite. I feel like DH sees me through rose tinted glasses and can't see what I'm really like. My counsellor said perhaps he just see the good in me that I can't see as I have a low opinion of myself. I suppose when OM said nice things to me it almost meant more, because he wasn't backward at acknowledging my faults too.

I actually think you need more specialised help than a counsellor can provide. Someone upthread mentioned the possibility of a personality disorder.

You seem to be filtering everything through your own lens and don't seem to have the ability to have empathy for others' viewpoints, especially those in this triangle you created.

I realise I am not coming across well to you but I think diagnosing me with a personality disorder over the net is a bit strong!

I don't think you're 'being diagnosed,' just a gentle suggestion that your issues run deeper.

I happen to agree that it's worth seeing a psychologist (NOT a counsellor)

I still disagree about the personality disorder, but don't object in principal to the idea of a psychologist. How would I find one though? And I know DH will be opposed to the idea

Screw DH. You deserve to have someone to talk to.

Banana you can go and have counselling with a well trained psychotherapist.

That's what I would do anyway, regardless of whether there is or there isn't some 'personality issues' (and I agree that to mention that from a few words on the net is going too far).

Just tell your DH you are having counselling (which it is anyway)

You post like your husband is the 'booby prize' and you make it sound like you are only with him becuase OM dumped you. You say you wouldn't go back now as you have seen om's 'true colours' but if he hadn't shown them by dumping you then you would still be with him.

The only way that OM could make the problems in your marriage sound worse is if you had confided these in him already. It is perfect script for both you and him to want to put down your marriage to validate what you were both doing. Why on earth you would want OM to tell your DH that he was partly responsible is beyond me - you should be wanting to cut all contact and leave him behand but you don't becuase you still think that the relationship with the OM was a good one and in reality you wanted it to continue.

OM had an 'affair' with his new GF and you are hurt but I really don't think you want to be with your DH anymore, you are working at it because it is your only option and I wonder if your DH knows this on some level so is not opening up to you.

Why is it my only option? We don't have kids. I could walk away. But I don't want to.

bananacrepe,you dont have to reply to the posts you dont like.
I should concentrate on the ones that are trying to help you.
If you think it would be helpful for your DH to acknowledge your faults,could he write them down?Though he may not come up with many if indeed he does see you through rose coloured glasses,or he may not come up with many because he will be too scared,or he may feel freer doing it that way and come up with some.Not sure if that would help you both or not tbh

'Nobody made me do what I did. I know that. Nobody made me do anything (though he did try very hard to persuade me to sleep with him). But you tell me now that if you were stupid enough to let yourself fall for someone else (which I'm sure you wouldn't be, and that's not sarcastic), and you were doubting everything in your entire life, and somebody was telling you you were in the wrong life, and they could give you everything, and you were the only person they could be happy with, and the only good thing in their life, and they would do anything for you, etc etc, that it wouldn't affect you even a tiny bit?'

The fact that you believed all of that -- and especially the fact that the idea you were in the wrong life was not a remark that made you raise an eyebrow make me think you really need a psychotherapist, psychologist, etc. You might be able to find one through Mind. Or your GP could give you a referral, but you may find a long waiting list unless you go private..

'Of course I want to be needed. Who wants to be in a relationship where they think their partner doesn't need them at all? I don't mean being needy, I mean needing the other person because you love them. I'm trying to show DH that he can rant and rave if he wants to and I will still be there. With the things that annoy him, I know they do because we've talked about this issue and it turns out there have been lots of things that do annoy him but he just hasn't told me until pressed. He is better than me at rising above things, and that's something I'm getting better at, but there are other things that if he'd just told me I'd have been able to do something about.

What you said was that you needed him to lean on you, and I think you are barking up the wrong tree with your DH here. Everybody gets annoyed by little things their partner does. Some people (but not you apparently) can shrug and deal with it. Annoyance or irritation at something small doesn't have to lead to a five page essay every single bloody time. He is better than you at rising above things. He doesn't need to vent the way you think he needs to vent -- you need him to vent because of some inner part of you that is awry and not out of respect for the person that he is and for his feelings.

I do think you need to consider the possibility of a PD here. I don't see a lot of understanding of where other people are coming from and the behaviour of the OM seems to have really knocked you for six. I feel truly sorry for you because you seem to be in such bewilderment and pain; there is help out there and I hope you will reach out for it.

math I think you are very harsh there.
I actually don't know a lot of people who don't need to vent from the little annoyances that living with a partner brings. How many times have I done that with my girl friends?
Most of us have also been taught that being married means that you can lean on each other when things get tough. That it is one of the point of being married. You are not on your own any more (In fact this is the first thing my mum told me when I said I was getting married!).
So diagnosing a PD from that is a tat extreme.

Seriously Banancrepe, you're not called Cleo are you? You describe your marriage/situation exactly the way my sons mother did with hers. I was the exact opposite of her husband too, me and her both had issues etc, weren't afraid to share our feelings etc. In the end she found someone else who she could talk to and I got chucked under the bus, guess that's karma though.

It is very true that leaning on each other is one of the great things about marriage. However, if you have spent a long time throughout the relationship expecting that you can vent whenever you feel like it about little things that annoy you, you may find that your partner backs off through feeling constantly watchful about your mood -- feeling that 'now isn't the best time, she's upset about the way I loaded the dishwasher', for instance.

There are minor annoyances and there are things that go deeper; if you have been going to town on the minor things too frequently your partner may be pretty ground down by the constant nagging or criticism or reminders. If someone has taken the fact that he or she is married as permission to rub a partner's nose in every little thing that ticks them off, they really can't be surprised that the partner has closed himself off emotionally and goes about trying not to do anything to annoy or stress the person who gets upset so easily. When you sweat the small stuff too much it crowds out meaningful connection.

If someone can't understand how a partner got to the point where he kept his feelings to himself while at the same time admitting all of the following:

'and DH has dealt with that [depression and anxiety] by trying to keep me a calm as possible, which basically meant giving into me. I never really realised how much this was happening until the affair.

I have spoken to him about it but he is still doing it. I am trying hard to be better, to do more for him, to be less irritable and calmer, and I'm getting there. But if something isn't done or he disagrees with me I wish to goodness he would say so! I don't want him walking on eggshells. I need to know that if I do something to upset him he will tell me. I have found myself pushing him in the past just to get a reaction. I realise this is my problem, and I am working on it, but equally I want him to be happy and I want him to say if I've done something that makes him unhappy. I am trying my best and making sure I'm not doing anything to annoy him or upset him but I need it to be more equal or it won't work. I don't want to be the boss. I don't want to be in charge. I want to be a team now that I have this chance (that I really didn't deserve) to make a go of things.'

...then she needs to consider that there is an inability to put herself in someone else's shoes at play here.

In particular, 'I have spoken to him about it but he is still doing it' shows the need to get professional help here. Getting on his case about not being irritable enough after being the boss, and in charge, and maybe bossy and annoyed enough to cause him to walk on eggshells for several years is actually more of the same 'being in charge' that went before. It's not tying to be different. It's bossing him about something different.

Op you say your husband has never been open about his feelings, so you ARE trying to change him.
Can you clarify approx how long you have been married and how long since dh found out about the affair?

Together 9 years, married 5 in November. He has known for just over two months.

Trying to change the status quo is quite difficult after 9 years.
Do you really think this can work. 9 years together, 2 affairs, emotional manipulation/ abuse.
You want to change a fundamental part of him. You are not over the OM, until the OM dumped you you were going to leave him. Do you really want to be married to someone you are with because first choice left? It doesn't sound like you are happy with him.
2 months is not very long and I think you are expecting to much from your dh in a short time.

We were happy before we stopped communicating and I drifted away (months before the affair). I never dreamed I could ever want anyone else. I never thought we had a honeymoon period because it was always so good. Surely that's worth fighting for?

but said before he has never communicated. Are you looking back at your better times with rose tinted glasses?
Are you holding on to him because he doesn't is with you in spite of how you have treated him. Are you more worried you won't find anyone else that stay with you.
I honestly think if he got up tomorrow and started 'challenging' you, in a few months you would hate it. If he started telling you that xyz bothered him or you doing xyz bothered him you would feel demoralised.
is it fair to him to try and work on your marriage while your heart is elsewhere, is it fair to ask him to change into what you want while you are still pining over the OM. Doesn't he deserve to know the truth.
I assume you told him you would have left of the OM would have had you?

Yes, I have. I have told him everything, as I said. He knows the truth. If I don't tell him what I'm cross or upset about he assumes it's him, even if I tell him it's not.

He does communicate, just not very well. He got much better at it after his affair. I just didn't realise how much better it could be until I met OM and he understood me so well (that old chestnut...). I realised that I thought communication was fine but then it occurred to me we were just drifting past each other. He used to be better at it but we both got worse at it without really realising.

'If I don't tell him what I'm cross or upset about he assumes it's him, even if I tell him it's not.'

What signs do you give out that you are cross or upset?

I don't understand - why is it relevant how people can tell I'm cross? I don't take it out on him, if that's what you mean. I don't shout at him or get annoyed with him about little things just because I'm upset. Maybe I did in the past, but I am extremely careful not to do that now and have been for a good while now.