Do women really believe that the wife is a psychotic bitch who doesn't understand him, the marriage is dead anyway and he's going to end it soon?

[duchesse]

And just how young naive would you have to be to believe that crap? I mean, men that have affairs have them with other women. Really for the sake of the sisterhood no-one ought to have any kind of dalliance with someone whose life is not crystal-clear and sorted but apparently many do, judging by the number of women on here who discover their husband/partner is shagging someone else.

So are they just not all that bright, these other women, do they harbour secret misogyny or do they just not care? Or do they so desperately want to believe what the bloke tells them and does it in fact stem from loneliness and sadness?

maybe they are doing the wife a favour, at least it gives them a good excuse to leave the bastard? More often I think they might believe the story about being divorced/separated.

My OM never once tried to tell me any of this crap.

He always said that he had a happy marriage and a happy family, but that he just couldn't help the way he felt about me.

I believed that. Does that make me a fool? He ended it and I would have been happy to go back to being friends, but he just couldn't trust himself to be with me and was desperate to do the right thing by his family.

I can't see why any of that would be lies really, but I am prepared to be enlightened if anyone thinks otherwise!

If they are young, it's just one of these things; the marriage didn't work out and it's all going to be different and shiny and obviously so fresh and nice with them from now on. Poor man deserve happiness and fulfilment.

If older, it's lonely at the top. And at the bottom and in the middle. They want to believe, I think. And they want their share, whatever the cost to all concerned. Also, poor man deserves happiness and fulfilment.

In any cases, you have to 'keep a man' (happy), dontcha know? So tough.

Yes, we women are very very thick, and ruthless, when it comes to lurve.
Imo.

I think the OW really wants to believe that it's an emotional desert.

She wants/loves the man and thinks he'll stay because she can give him what he needs/wants.

Mostly she is deluding herself.......but not always and therein lies the problem.

Sometimes affairs lead to a successful marriage/relationship.

I don't think you are a fool for believing him but i think you should realise that if he will chuck one wife/family then he can do it again.

It's because (IME) OW are insecure and extremely stupid.

Jive, so hard to resist a married man who can't help the way he feel about you! Not being sarcastic, by the way. You believed, he lied. Not to you but to his family. He got to have his cake and eat it. And feel good about it, and make you feel he was a decent sort.
Hopefully no one got hurt. I hope you didn't. That would be foolish.

I think a lot of people are fairly optimistic and trusting, and it often works out for us. We assume that when we buy food, it's not poisonous or adulterated with harmful things; we assume that our friends are not going to lie to us to our detriment; we assume that buildings aren't going to collapse while we're in them. A lot of those assumptions are based on the fact that it is against our wider interests to do wildly horrible, self-interested but other-harming things because if everyone descended into that behaviour, we'd be wiped out as a species. And those assumptions, and that reasoning, generally work for us.

And then we come to the lies that destroy personal trust. They are grim, are they not? We can meet someone and, not being wholly naive, take note of the fact that this person is generally honourable and trustworthy; has the trust and respect of others; is not - at least, not obviously - a complete sociopath. So, if they start telling us some story about their private life (which is hard to fact-check on) we may "verify" what they're telling us by way of checking out their other behaviour - which is generally supposed to be/checks out as trustworthy and good.

Hence the belief.

The questions, really, are why people wanting to conduct an affair will lie; do they believe it themselves; do they comprehend the levels of deception (and not just to their partners but also to the other person in the affair)?

I think they must believe it a bit (which will of course make them convincing) because it would take a conscience-less sociopath to behave in that way otherwise - and most are not sociopaths.

So, no, I don't think "these OW" are misogynistic, uncaring thieves of OPP, or secretly misogynistic. they are just people looking for a connection with another, for affection and love in an uncertain world, and think they have found it. Perhaps sometimes they have. Often, they end up very hurt, betrayed, and without a support network to support them.

I also think that we human beings really still have our "L" plates when it comes to understanding our nature, particular our emotional and pyschological nature. It's the only explanation I can come up with for the crazy, unkind and often quite self-delusional behaviour that people can get up to when it comes to love and relationships. The alternative is that there are a lot of Jekyll and Hyde weirdos out there - capable of being caring, loving people and then turning suddenly into completely, consciously sociopathic people. And I can't believe that. Though there are a fair few of those around

I think Jive has also pointed out something obvious. Most of us will not find that our emotions and desires remain focused on just one individual, for all our lives.

Humans do seem to settle into a socially recognised, sanctioned and stable relationship - whether that be a monogamous one, or polygamous, or whatever - especially when children come into the picture.

There are very good reasons for that - we like an end to uncertainty; its economically very sensible; it promotes security for offspring I guess ; it provides emotional certainty.

Against that is the continuing capacity for love for others - be it friendship; curiosity for all kinds of human contact; desires unmet in this one other or others.

So I'm sure that the things people tell each other, and believe, have some grounding is some sort of truth. Though I'd guess that the narratives people swap are always a little smoothed out of complexity and simplified - if only because people often fight shy of acknowledging their own emotional complexities.

(And, of course, there are those who really are just purely instrumental and will be a bit ruthless to get their own desires met. but I wonder if they are so convincing?)

I wouldn't say that OW are necessarily stupid or sad but that they believe the man.

And they love him too.

Many second relationships do work out.

But the one who is doing the leaving is the one who must be honest and tell the first partner before moving on to another relationship.

A relationship never falters because of another person coming into the picture imo.

I don't believe in all that "i couldn't help myself shit".

You sort your marriage out or end it before embarking on anything else.

People have a habit of believing exactly what they want to believe, even if it's complete and utter bullshit.

Jive that might well have been a lie. Telling you that he 'couldn't trust himself to be with you' allows your ego to remain intact i.e. if he spent time with you he would be unable to resist you. 'Doing right by his family' also positions himself as a noble man who has sacrificed his own personal happiness for the good of his family. This 'ending' is very typical in affairs and is oft chosen by people because it allows the participants to retain their high opinion of eachother and of themselves.

The truth is often different. Invariably the ending has come because the initial infatuation with the third party has worn off and the whole thing has become more troublesome than it's worth or because the spouse is becoming suspicious/so fed-up of the changed behaviour at home that she is threatening divorce or is behaving suspiciously herself. Ultimately, a choice is made - but it's presented in a vastly sanitised form that is 'acceptable' to both parties.

It's true that the guilt and stress of an affair will also be a factor in the decision to end it and for people who still love their partners and are happy with them but became infatuated with someone else despite all that and have never claimed otherwise, the guilt and stress is usually enhanced because they are not born or practised deceivers and find it extremely difficult coping with the split-self of departing from their normal way of operating in relationships.

However such people hate others to think badly of them and regard themselves as 'nice' people who don't want to hurt unnecessarily. So they exaggerate the strength of feeling for the OW/OM and don't tell this person the truth when it ends. It's a false kindness because it stops the third party from understanding what the relationship really meant and stops them learning valuable lessons to take into future relationships.

I think "if he'll do it with you, he'll do it to you." My ex certainly did. He left me for her, and then left her (and their two kids) for someone else. she was astonished. I wasn't in the least bit surprised.

They desperately want to believe it and it stems from vanity imo. I think a lot of them secretly believe that they really are that special and that they can be the ministering angel.

I think that ultimately people are pretty selfish and look out for number one first.

They either want to have their cake and eat it (in the case of the married person) or they really don't give much of a fuck about the consequences what they are doing. It simply isn't morally right to sleep with someone when you are in a relationship or the other person is in a relationship. How could it ever be right to put your lusts/desires above other peoples' feelings?

Years ago my ex dp was totally unknown to me having an affair with a married woman who has told him one day she would leave her husband. He waited 4 years. Her husband found out and kicked her out. She came round our house and told me to get out as she was going to live there now. Dp let her in. I thought she was an escaped lunatic until he explained.

windandsand

gatheringlilacs very insightful posts.

I'd say the OW loves the idea that she is so irresistible that he can't control himself around her. That she is better than his wife. It's part of that horrible competitive thing that women have with each other. And also comes from insecurity. So no, I don't think they believe the stories he tells them, as if they are blameless or passive participants in a situation he is creating and controlling. They are just as complicit as the man in maintaining the lie.

I think there is a element of competition 'He chooses me!'
A friend who had an affair believed the man who told her he would leave his girlfriend but she was really emotional and he was worried what breaking up would do to her. She thought he was very honourable to behave this way! No mention of the fact that his girlfriend a) would have every right to be emotional as he IS testing her badly and b) if he really cared he wouldn't cheat!
My friend and I had many arguments about this. And then he tried it in with me.

on not in! Fat fingers and iPhone!

Here's a thing though. From reading MN it would seem like many marriages are just shams. How many times have a seen a MNer come here and say she doesn't love her dh, they never have sex, they don't talk, he contributes nothing, she feels like a single parent, he puts his work before family etc etc

Not excusing anyone cheating, just saying that there are many empty loveless marriages out there!

It's mighty depressing tbh

I know a few men with absolute loons of wives. And women with control freak husbands. None of whom are having affairs but are not happy in their relationships. Therefore I wouldn't be surprised if any of them upped sticks one day.

windsand was he having the affair while with you? Did they move in together?
Sorry back to the OP, its not once size fits all imo. Some OW/OM are stupid, some are pursued because they are the believing type, some don't care, some have low self esteem and like the boost, some have high self esteem and just like the though of being 'better'.
I think most choose to believe it then they can believe he is a good man. Not a cheating twat and they are not the Scarlett woman/man.
I also agree the OPs sisterhood point. Yes the married one has made the vows but to me its completely immoral to engage in any type of affair and they have played part of the destruction that follows. They are both to blame.
Its funny really, my collegues kept telling me that a manage at work had a soft spot for me. I brushed it off, we are friends. He isn't based in out office and has appeared more and more. We had a coffee (in the office canteen) as he happened to be in their when I had my break. He seemed a bit down, we chatted about how his wife didn't seem to care anymore, how hebwpuld never cheat be needed to feel wanted etc. I gave him some advice the emailed some links from the relationship forum about the script and affair aftermaths and told to sort his marriage one way or another. Then dropped in that me and my dh had been through bad patches and what we did to sort it and how our marriage was better than R. He hasn't been in touch since, surprisingly. I can say with no doubt in my mind, he was laying the ground work, I can also say he is one of the most attractive men I know and that if we were single I definitely would. But he and I are married. I couldn't do it to dh, even when we have had awful patches but I also couldn't do it to his dw who I have never met.
I also came home and told dh who laughed, he knows there is no way I would take him up on the offer
unfortunatly at my office affairs are the norm. Its not nice and I am glad I am leaving. I wasn't flattered really, i think as soon as i have gone he will try it with someone else.

I discovered my ex having a 2 year affair with OW who has been hospitalised several times for depression, has an eating disorder (bulimia) and an alcohol problem. She went out of her way to hurt me and twist the knife. She is very troubled and damaged. Two years later he is still with her but is desperately unhappy and wants to come home. She is convinced he will leave her for someone else. He probably will but it won't be me.

She intrigues me in a car crash sort of way. You know you shouldn't gawp but you can't help it.

The ow may be stupid to believe the lies but then isn't the forgiving wife equally stupid to believe the lies when they find out?

"it meant nothing"
"it was only sex"
"I never meant to hurt you"
"it's you I want"

Sadly when it comes to love, I think sense goes out of the window for both men and women.

I think it is about confidence. DH and I met when we were married to other people. I couldn't help falling in love but I could help my actions. I ended my marriage and created distance by moving to the other side of the world. With me out of the picture he realised he was looking for diversions to his unhappy marriage and he ended it. Once he'd left and been gone six months (I wasn't risking him having regrets) I moved to him home town and we started dating.

I absolutely believe his ex was emotionally cold and self centred BUT it never struck me as relevant to anything. I also knew that if what I felt was real, it'd still be real in the future. As a result I have wonderful stepsons, a good relationship with the ex (who has found a man who better understands her and meets her needs - because frankly it came down to incompatibility not fault within her) and the man I love.

Sadly relationships do end and yes it was awful walking away when it would have been so easy to have been the OW but while you can't help your feelings you can help your actions.