Do women really believe that the wife is a psychotic bitch who doesn't understand him, the marriage is dead anyway and he's going to end it soon?

[duchesse]

And just how young naive would you have to be to believe that crap? I mean, men that have affairs have them with other women. Really for the sake of the sisterhood no-one ought to have any kind of dalliance with someone whose life is not crystal-clear and sorted but apparently many do, judging by the number of women on here who discover their husband/partner is shagging someone else.

So are they just not all that bright, these other women, do they harbour secret misogyny or do they just not care? Or do they so desperately want to believe what the bloke tells them and does it in fact stem from loneliness and sadness?

gatheringlilacs Thank you for your comment to me earlier. Yes, things are much better now, and I have learned a lot!

sternface I recognise the sincerity of your statement, and agree with you that it is a fair question to wonder why a woman would believe a man at all when she already knows he lies.

I can only answer this from my perspective (previous OW, story laid out earlier), but in my case it was rather simply for the following reason:

I believed everybody lied, especially about things that were self-protective, and that the truth was always a hit-or-miss deal, and only possible in 'safe' spaces.

My father led an entirely double life (righteous and upstanding on one hand, physically and sexually abusive at home).

I also lied to him constantly in different ways (mostly to protect myself), eg. telling him I loved him on demand, lying about anything that would de-escalate his violence, lying about my period, lying about feeling ill, and finally lying toward the end about all my plans to leave (and finally running away).

So when I met 'married man', the idea that he was lying to his wife "so she wouldn't get upset", whilst also painting the picture that she was borderline hysterical/violent made perfect sense to me. I grew up doing the same with a violent/hysterical father, but I knew it didn't make me a liar when I said I loved MM.

His 'actions' of love toward me convinced me that the same was true for him.

I genuinely didn't know any of the cliches about cheating men, due to leading an extremely socially isolated life and having no previous dating experience. I also had never experienced any physical warmth or affection in my life ever, and I was so starved for the sensation that I would have done almost anything for it.

I had no concept there was anything better to be had, MM's affection absolutely was the best thing that I had ever felt, it was the pinnacle of joy for me at that point!

gotto for your younger self. You sound like a strong woman now.

Applauds LeQueen

All the ladies in this thread who have been burned by slutty husbands/OW..I hope when I'm older I can be HALF as strong as you!

When I was a OW it was all about raising my self esteem and making myself feel loved because I was 'wanted.' All I ever felt was cheap, slutty and unwanted. Lowered my self esteem extremely.

OP if thinking about the wife and kids isn't enough help, listen to this:

You will feel dirty after the first few times.
You'll feel unimportant and unloved because you know deep down his wife means 100x what you do to him.
You won't be able to go on real dates..You'll be nothing but a booty call.
When you have 'relationship' problems you'll have no one to turn to because everyone will be horrified by your behaviour.

If I felt this way as a sixteen year old, how will you feel?

You might want to pop that message on the other thread, Lurking!

Erm adultery might be grounds for divorce but that does not mean faithfulness is part of a marriage contract. Faithfulness cannot be enforced and not everybody has it as part of a marriage. I'm not talking about what is generally considered to be a normal marriage but what is fundamental to a marriage contract.

In some instances the so called "lie" or "bollocks" that the cheating spouse says is true though & I think that it can be tempting for the rejected wife to do some re-writing of history.

My ex-H had an affair. Our marriage was not good when it happened. We had a baby & a toddler, he worked away Mon-Fri. We were both exhausted & bad-tempered at the weekends when he was home. We were not communicating well & had very little sex. I saw it as a temporary phase, he clearly saw it as the rest of his life.

It would have been easy for me to agree afterwards with the image that we projected outwards, that everything was fine. I could have been indignant & said, "how could he cheat, everything was just great" - but that would have been bollocks too.

I think there are men (and women) out there who have affairs just because they can, but I think there are an awful lot who have them because they are unhappy. I know so many people who have had an affair, left their wife & embarked on a relationship with the other woman - they are all still together! (including my ex-H & his now wife, some 9 years on). They are not serial adulterers, they are not compulsive liars - they are just ordinary humans who should have closed one door before they opened another - but didn't.

duchesse which thread? I'd be happy too. :)

[http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1501693-On-the-verge-of-becoming-an-OW-please-flame-me# This 'un!]

Try again

This 'un!

It's not my experience Post Bellum that people in marriages as bad as the one you describe re-write history and pretend to themselves and everyone else that it was happy after it's ended, but although I've had men in second relationships admit that the first really wasn't as bad as they'd convinced themselves at the time, I agree that usually if the original relationship was bad then people leave it when they've got someone else to go to. This kind of proves my point upthread about actions speaking louder than words. If a marriage is genuinely unhappy and the new partner is regarded as the 'real deal' then a person will leave. Even if the new person isn't the real deal but the unhappiness is genuine, people will still very often leave (e.g. the 'exit affair')

But in a great many affairs, people have got no intention of leaving their marriages because there was nothing drastically wrong with them (or at least there wasn't before the affair). Yes, the marriage might have needed a bit of TLC and attention, but as we've agreed on this thread, what marriage doesn't from time to time? MAHC made a good point upthread about how often people whose affairs are discovered or who confess all, beg to stay in their marriages and be forgiven. Those people are often the ones for whom their marriages weren't the source problem.

I understand why some people think that 'rejected spouses' re-write history and if I hadn't heard people who've had affairs themselves tell me that their marriages had been rewarding and fulfilling prior to their affairs, maybe I'd think the same. It would be much easier for those people to use the 'unhappy marriage' justification after all but I have great respect for people who are more honest than that with themselves and others and who refuse to.....er, re-write history

sternface, I think we are agreeing in the main.

I think the reason that people beg to stay in their marriages & ask to be forgiven when they are found out, is the sheer terror of leaving & upsetting the current apple cart. Not many people relish change, particularly not the "out on your ear" kind of change being found out can bring. I don't think it is necessarily because they are still in love with their spouse or particularly want the marriage to work. It is a reaction based on fear - not positive thinking.

My ex-H begged forgiveness & was desperate to stay - but not desperate enough to end it with the OW. Actions always speak louder than words & particularly with affairs!

I really didn't want to say this as it's a painful part of my history I'm ashamed of, but now I feel need to.

The men I was screwing were in happy relationships. They had women who worshipped them. No clue they were cheating, and only one ever found out. I was the next in a looong line of young girls to add to their bed notch.

In case you were wondering, there were four. I have a decent track record due to my self esteem being about as high as a blade of grass, ready to be trampled on at any moment. My father was sexually, physically and emotionally abusive. He always told me I was a slut when was a child so I went on an anger induced bender to raise my self esteem and 'prove' that I was lovable. Yea, that worked out well.

Anyway, my point was at least IME, these guys just needed the ego boost and thrill of knowing they could go home after screwing me and screw their wives.

I feel dirty now, so I'm going. Just thought I'd share my personal experience that I wish had never happened. I wish I'd been smart enough to get the ego boost I so desperately needed from somewhere else.

The worst part was I couldn't turn to my mum for support when I was hurting so terribly and felt so cheap after because I was so ashamed. All it made me feel was MORE alone and skankier than I already felt. :(

I guess my thought process was 'wow, if an older MAN with a beautiful partner and kids wants ME, I must be REALLY lovable and something special.'

Turns out it doesn't work that way. :(

But OP, I was 16. How many times WORSE are you going to feel than I did??

Lurking, I'm sorry you had such a tough time & applaud you for your bravery in re-telling your story.

At completely the other end of the spectrum, my ex-H's current wife, who had the affair with him when he was married to me, doesn't have any self-esteem issues at all. She believes that you have to follow your "true course", even if that may be painful for yourself & others at times!!!!!! She doesn't feel cheap or skanky, she believes she followed her destiny, which was to be with my ex-H.

Perhaps, this may help show that people have affairs for many, many different reasons. I keep banging on about this, when the same old hackneyed stuff comes up on here about lying, cheating evil men & scarlet temptress women. None of the people I know who have had affairs fit those categories. Some are weak, some fall in love, some are miserable, some feel trapped and yes a few are opportunistic - but it is rarely simple or straight forward & it happens way more than we like to believe. One person's truth is not another's & all of it is very subjective.

Hmm. I think maybe people pull those lines, not because it doesn't happen because there are other scenarios, but because it's the most likely scenario?

My uncle has severe PTSD from the Vietnam war. When he was in his thirties with a toddler, he ran off with my seventeen year old aunt. All these years later, they're still together. But it wasn't easy. They didn't raise their first child very well and favoured their second to the point their first ended up on drugs. Hs child from his first marriage has a 'sort of' relationship with him now he's a grown man.

Obviously that wasn't a happy marriage, but I do believe their scenario is rare.

postbellum

and :( at lurking, and how incredibly brave of you to post your story, i truly hope you are in a better place now x

I am. I have an amazing DP who when he holds me and says he loves me, I know it's true.

And really, what more can you ask for in a partner? :)

I agree that people discovered in an affair feel frightened of the outcome, but disagree that in every case, these are their only emotions, or that no-one in this position wants to stay in their marriages for positive reasons, not least love for their committed partners. Then again, the people who are only staying out of fear of change tend not to be the ones who come for counselling and are willing to discuss why they endangered their marriages in this way.

Also, outside of the work setting I've got a few friends who've had affairs (men and women) and they wanted to stay in their marriages because of love, not fear.

Are affairs really so common that everyone knows someone who has had one?

Other than high school cheating and my aunt and uncle running off together as well as my own awful experiences, I don't know anyone who has. Granted I'm 19 but I'd like to believe it's not that common.

aww thats lovely lurking :)

When I was 19 Lurking, like you I only knew people in my extended family who'd had affairs (and maybe one or two in our village)

At 50+ and knowing lots of people in longstanding relationships like mine, I know of far more now!

It's much more common than people think, if my caseload and this board is anything to go by. But lots of people who rebuild their relationships after an affair tell no-one about it, so the true picture of what's happening in society is hidden. I understand why people do that, but if people knew how frequently this happens they might feel less alone and scared when they find out their partner has had an affair. Lots of people tell me that one of their emotions is shame and also fear that other people will judge them for being unable to prevent their partners' behaviour. I think it's a sad reflection of society that people feel to blame for someone else's behaviour, or that others will cast that blame in their direction.

I guess that's the thing Misty

When the person you love holds you and says they love you, don't you want to know you're the only one they're referring to?

My DP was a major 'homewrecker' before he met me (he's a tad older, but not creepy older like when I was OW!!!) and now he always says he is fearful I will 'karma him' as he puts it.

Morris I have read the OP thanks. Your opinion was that its the men completely to blame that the OW haven't done anything wrong as long as the man claims 'my wife doesn't understand me'. My point is that the OW or OM is responsible for their own actions and part of an affair. Imo whether the man is lying or telling the truth the OW still should walk away. Even if the man is in a unhappy marriage, cheating is wrong. The cheating spouse is wrong and so is the OW.
You were the one that took the thread down the blame route and away from the OP. You should expect a response.

Tbf at 19 that's a fair amount to know.

Yeah but my uncle and aunt met before I was born, I was a fucked up kid, and in high school surely gossip and kissing different people is sorta normal behaviour? I avoided everyone like the plague in high school so I wouldn't know.