Do women really believe that the wife is a psychotic bitch who doesn't understand him, the marriage is dead anyway and he's going to end it soon?

[duchesse]

And just how young naive would you have to be to believe that crap? I mean, men that have affairs have them with other women. Really for the sake of the sisterhood no-one ought to have any kind of dalliance with someone whose life is not crystal-clear and sorted but apparently many do, judging by the number of women on here who discover their husband/partner is shagging someone else.

So are they just not all that bright, these other women, do they harbour secret misogyny or do they just not care? Or do they so desperately want to believe what the bloke tells them and does it in fact stem from loneliness and sadness?

Sounds wonderful amberleaf! I had one like that, he has a diagnosis of BPD now and we have two children. He had affairs with at least 25 people some of them as young as 14 and made me feel like I was mental, told me so many lies. I don't see it as a relationship problem. It was a problem with him, a problem he still has and will likely have forever

It was a problem with him, a problem he still has and will likely have forever

Agree totally!

His issue but an issue for your relationship no less.

Being with someone like that is maddening, only way to get through that is to take that attitude ^ that is his issue and not yours, or else you could tie yourself up in knots trying to do whatever it is you must do to please him- in short there is no pleasing people like that, they can't even please themselves.

Ha! Well I'm one of those people. I'm not cheating, I don't intend to. I have very high levels of self control and commitment. I compartmentalise my feelings. It doesn't mean I'm not happy with DH. I'm much happier with him than I am personally with myself and I'm an excellent and very committed wife. DH is very monogamous but is also a compartmentaliser. We live independent lives together in partnership. Different things work well in different relationships. There is no one rule for what works in love, sex and relationships.

I'm not cheating, I don't intend to. I have very high levels of self control and commitment

That's key.

You and your DH sound suited!

I think there's a slightly pointless circular argument about what constitutes a 'happy relationship'. This makes this whole binary discussion what it always is, sad and rationalising. One can be in an excellent, fulfilling relationship that is as good as it gets which, after ten years, five years, twenty years suffers a real down period because of varying factors, one has to go away for work, a health issue, a child being born or god forbid, being taken away. There is just no such thing as a continually perfect, mutually respectful, sexually satisfying yet inventive monogamous relationship over a certain amount of time. There just isn't. Not every day forever. So the issue then becomes how does one choose to live one's life considering that. In promiscuity, polygamy, serial monogamy with dodgy overlaps sometimes or one long committed monogamous marriage? All have downsides, all have upsides. Instinctively we know this and some people's wants and needs mean they try and subvert as much as possible what the downsides are and have as much upside as they can for as long as possible.

We must remember that over three quarters of infidelities men have are never discovered and over 90% of women's! This means that if you have a strong suspicion, it might be a tip of an iceberg thing. It also means that those who firmly believe themselves to be 'safe' and 'happy' maybe should not be so judgmental.

For example, a close member of my family has been married a decade and together with their OH longer than that. I know they adore their partner, petty annoyances aside, and I suspect from what I know the partner has always been faithful and loves them back dearly. My family member has had several infidelities over their relationship, mostly just sexual, once or twice very emotional affairs but never meaningful enough to threaten the stronger impulse of preserving the family, the marriage and the happiness it brings. That marriage is one of the 'best' I know from the outside. The occasional infidelity is clearly about a selfish occasional wish to 'have it all' and an inability to turn down opportunity and, most importantly, a growing sense that one does not get found out if one is careful and therefore there are no consequences.I can say this because I grew up with this person, who is funny, smart and very good looking so the world treats them well generally and this helps create entitled character traits.

Clearly I judge this, but personal issues aside, what does this say about the marriage's 'happiness'? I see them together, I know they have good sex, I know they get on. They raise their children as beautifully as can be, even with work absences. There are few and far between rows about various things then there is making up. Of course one feels one should get everything from their primary partner but nobody is everything. Nobody can be. So it becomes about how much you demand from life or this modern notion of 'deserving to be happy'. There are qualities we can't provide in a relationship, simply because there's one of us. Even the most wide-ranging personality can not provide variety if that is the quality that is sought. Some people just keep one eye open. It's a selfish character trait and sometimes they also happen to be in bad relationships. Sometimes they are in pretty good relationships that are going through something shitty that is making them unhappy in their relationship. Sometimes their partner IS actually being unreasonable, unsexual, absent or short-tempered. Such is life. Sometimes all these things happen in all relationships.

There is no such thing as a constantly happy or unhappy marriage that can or definitely won't be a springboard for an affair. The most consistent indicator of whether a marriage will contain infidelity is opportunity. Most infidelity is never discovered. Sometimes that makes the cheater more likely to keep doing it, sometimes it makes them so grateful and feel so lucky that they swear never to do it again. Stop imagining a relationship as a scorecard that has a constant, regulated state of bliss or unbliss. It's ridiculous. Every married person who falls desperately in love with someone else has known what it is to be desperately in love, from before. People don't get married unless they really believe in that love in that moment. That may change of course, all relationships change.

There is hardly any woman for whom it is worth a man upturning his life, missing his children, his home, his wife, much money, his family, her family, his reputation, his pride, his children's psychological well-being and his view of himself as a father husband and provider. There are many many women for whom it is worth a man lifting a skirt, occasionally working late and lying once or twice a day. This would be the same if the spouse were the lover or the lover were the spouse.

There are females out there who want what the wife has without the hardwork in between. They see the nice house, cars, holidays and nice clothes and think if they get the man they will get the luxury lifestyle that goes along with it. You see them at the weekend and they all go to the same clubs to find someone. The guys are as bad, they want sex whereas the girls want treated, sex is the pay off. Once they get their claws in they will do anything to get the man if he has the wealth. They don't care about the wife or children as greed comes first.

I don't think anyone has said a happy relationship means being happy all the time in the relationship, surely that is just what you have read into it?

I'm definitely not happy all the time in my relationship but I still call it a happy relationship for the reasons you outline, you cannot always be happy and satisfied. I'd still cal it a happy relationship even during the times I am feeling unhappy and disatisfied because overall it is a happy relationship. I'd argue that a relationship where there are secret affairs is not a relationship, it might be falsely happy but it is no longer a relationship because one partner is being denied informed choice and equality in the relationship.

And not everyone considers love to be ultimately important in a marriage either

Sternface - try not to call people naive just because they have a differing opinion to your own.

^^ this. i can't stand this. the whole, i am right, and poor naive you, with your different opinion, are Wrong.

and great post from dirtymistress, (her last one) and i am sorry to hear what happened but it sounds like you are better off without him. x

I can offer up my experience if it helps shed any light.

I had an affair with a married man at the age of 21. I had run away from home at the age of 17 (father physically and sexually abusive). I had been kept at home my whole life as part of my father's tightly-controlled bubble (never went to school), so had zero friends, and zero experience with other people.

I got a simple job and spent the 4 years from 17-21 in a kind of shell-shocked fog, trying to deal with the world (which I found terrifying), crying in bathrooms, and speaking to nobody.

I began interacting with people online as I felt 'safer', and it was much easier than face-to-face. And it was there, I met MM.

He was the first person to show me what I thought was love, plain and simple. I would have done anything for him, died for him, because he was the only person I'd ever met who seemed to care about me at all.

He told me he was only with his wife for the kids, that she did not want a "passionate" (his words) relationship, and didn't love him, that she was also just staying for the kids.

I fell for it hook, line, and sinker. I know now that this is a classic spun story, but at the time I had never heard it before, had no concept of cheating husbands being common, and had never even held a boy's hand myself.

I knew I was doing something bad, but I had been lectured about "bad" my entire life from an extremely religious father who was quite happy to crawl into my bed at night, and beat me black and blue in the days.

What I had with MM was the first bright ray of light I had ever felt, it felt like love, it felt like he cared about me, it felt like something in me was worth something and desirable. And the craving for that feeling totally and utterly eclipsed any half-baked notion of 'bad' I'd ever been taught.

Now (many years later, and much wiser), I see that affair for what it was. I regret what I did. I used my own pain to block out the fact that I was hurting someone else. I was stupid at first and genuinely believed him, and then I let denial sing to me because it sounded so much sweeter than the truth.

It ended when I met the wife (though she didn't know who I was), and I saw she was just a woman and not a monster. She seemed to me a better human being than he was, he was the monster, and I was something even worse.

I look back at myself then, and wonder only how it could have been different. How would I help stop another young person falling down exactly the same path?

I would not believe that rubbish for the mouth of any man

Thank you MistyRocks. And yes, I had a rough time of it but now I have a beautiful 9 month old DS and a DP who makes me happier than I thought it was possible to be. Everything works out in the end. The OW did me a favour really, I was just to naive to see it at the time. x

gottohide - that is so horrible. I honestly think that Mr MM's behaviour was verging on abusive - actually it's not verging at all, it was, really. How dare he steal your trust and not take account of your vulnerability. I am so angry on your behalf.

I really hope you're life is better to you now, and much more of the place that it should be.

I'll read the thread in a minute, but couldn't wait to answer the hideously sexist OP.

I thought that kind of woman blaming had died with the 1950s but sadly not.

Why on earth should women assume that the men they meet and care about are liars? And why is it their job to sniff out the truth?

It's a radical suggestion, but how about blaming the liar?

More marriages end in divorce these days than last until death, so why is it naive to think that somebody might be unhappily married, just staying for the kids etc? That is absolutely true in many cases.

So please, focus your concerns on the actual guilty party, ie the married person who is lying to two people. Not somebody who is lied to.

So should we also slate wives who believe their husband is 'working late' or who attends an unusually high number of 'conferences' etc?

That bullshit is equally ago old. But we blame men for those lies, not the person who likes/ trusts them enough to believe them.

Morris we are not talking about men lying about being single. We are talking about men who are clear they are married but having an affair because of xyz.
So its ok to sleep with a married man as long as he is unhappily married. Its not wrong to sleep with married men?

I was answering the op, who asked if women believed the stuff married men tell them about the state of their marriages.

Personally I think it can be very stupid, ill advised etc to sleep with a married man. But I don't think it is 'wrong' in the absolute. And if it is, then its the married cheater to blame. Not the wronged spouse. And not the OW/ OM.

Dprince, oh yes, he had an affair with her for 4 years before I found out and her husband found out. I was the last to know. Turned out all our friends knew, not one person told me- I wasted all that time. I left instantly. She moved in. He begged me not to bad mouth him. He have me money - enough to buy a house - not to tell the full sordid story. When the cheque cashed I'm afraid I dined out on my story for a good long time.

Still can't get back the wasted years though.

Oh my god that's awful. I can't believe no one told you at all. At least you know know and didn't waste anymore time. Its a small positive, but its their.
I hope you are doing well now.

Dprince, people loved him, couldnt beleive mr perfect pants even my mum said I must have done something wrong and should have fought to stay:(

He came to my new house a month later and said it was a mistake and he wanted to get married to me, kids - all the stuff we had been planning as we lived together for 7 years. Told him to get lost or words to that effect:) tosser.

Am ok now and am profoundly grateful was brave enough to be the wrong side of 30 and suddenly single. At the time was shit, obviously.

Dirtymistress: are you for real? How do I solve something I don't know about? How do I compete with my mortgage and roof repairs and kids (you know, the stuff called REALITY) against your exciting new hot twat?

And why am I blamed for being a trouble making cow, when I do try and solve problems? You see, the problems you are blaming me for usually involve things like 'can you listen to me and take what I say seriously, and care enough to do something about it'. Selfish twunts don't like hearing that kind of shit. Can't compete against your 'ooooh you are so wonderful, sexy' whatever line.

Actually, if you can get him out of my house, you can have him. I don't like being lied to, I don't like having stuff done to me behind my back, and friends don't treat friends like this.

So if you are so great and he is so great, he's all yours.

You would think after 7 years with you and 4 with her he would have known what he was doing. Spending 4 years lying to you and it turns out he didn't really want to be with her.
he does sound like a tosser. You poor thing, to have people blaming you. Good on you though for telling him to jog on.

And I absolutely adored my H, and we f d like rabbits. He is still here I am heartbroken and our sex life is zerio. HE threw it all away, and I still don't know what for! You have problems in your marriage: you go to Relate AND OWN 50% OF THE PROBLEMS (the real problem here). You don't f k OW.

If the wife is me, yes!

OP have you been sleeping with my husband?

cracks self up, dark sense of humour keeping me going as I bf whislt DP takes DC1 out for the footie being too bloody knackered for an affair, bless him

In answer to your OP yes, some women may well believe that if they want to believe it, if the adulterer is convincing enough, if they want an excuse to cheat/feel better about screwing someone alse over, or...it might actually be the case (I am talking as a highly strung psych bitch on wheels atm. That's Miss Bitch to you):

Cannot possibly know the circumstances of others' relationships. Suffice to say Overlaps are shitty. Adultery is shitty. Affairs are shitty.
That is irrespective of them being a symptom, or meaning nothing or being a catalyst for change.

The interesting question would be do men believe the My husband neglects me, doesn't respond to my needs, our marriage is a sham...line and do they care?

It always takes two to trouser tango.
And both parties are always responsible for their actions and accountable.

Sorry Morris if a man says he is married but his wife is cuz, the OW is responsibility and their job to say 'thanks but no thanks' for the sake of their own sanity and self worth.
Your posts comes across as though being the OW is ok as long as the man says he is not happy. That doesn't excuse anything.